forward pass or not- How do we make it fair

First topic message reminder :

So it seems as though the ref has control over wether a forward pass is forward or not, but it doesnt matter if the pass is forward or not. It seems as though a a pass can be given forward or not given forward and this can result in a try or not a try and either way no one questions it.

How do we fix it.

Firstly - what is a forward pass- and why should it matter if the ball does go forward or not- surely it should only matter if the player that the pass is thrown to is off side or not.

was the no forward pass rule only invented to make reffing a game easier(if you dont pass it forward the player that catches it cant be offside).

should technolgy be brought in?

should the forward pass rule stay?

should it be adapted?

Is everything fine as it is?

personally i say scrap the rule!(keep offside obviously) it is making the game unfair- especially as seen in the recent AUS v SA game.

am i missing something glairingly obvious?

discuss

"
The law does not allow for momentum - simply states that any ball that travels towards the opponents dead-ball line is forward"

so why do so many refs allow for momentum?

they all do when it suits them.

With due respect, the law does not say quite what you say it says. A player may THROW a ball backwards at the point of release, but it may TRAVEL forward all the same.

Exactly, the key word that is present is "throw" and the key word that is not is "travel".

I'm not sure why this is so hard for some people to grasp.

At any rate, clearly the correct thing to do is to kick the ball forward in a short slightly forward kick pass as SBW did against Canada, and DC did against the Lions in 2005. Genius.

samuraidragon wrote:With due respect, the law does not say quite what you say it says. A player may THROW a ball backwards at the point of release, but it may TRAVEL forward all the same.

so it does allow for momentum then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1cgQPwf1ng

The law is clearly ambiguous as different people interpret it differently.

I agree that a clarification from the IRB would be helpful.

I am not sure I want the game refereed entirely by TV though, and should the IRB agree with the "momentum" viewpoint there doesn't seem an easy way to judge forward passes instantaneously on TV.

I don't think missed forward passes are a huge problem.

maestegmafia wrote:I know that in modern rugby the touch judges help the referee by spotting things he may have missed.

I wonder how much input they give to not just forward passes but crocked line out throws, or bad feeds at scrums?

Line Outs - they tell the ref is throw is crooked and will watch front if ref is at the back

Scrum - the usually mark offside for the backs. There is no reason a ref should need a TJ to spot a crooked feed.

I don't know what the guidelines are for referrals to the TMO but I would welcome that intervention to restrict the possibility of forward passes leading directly to tries. Maybe being allowed to go back as far as the last breakdown before the try ie last ruck maul or set piece if necessary.

red_stag wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I know that in modern rugby the touch judges help the referee by spotting things he may have missed.

I wonder how much input they give to not just forward passes but crocked line out throws, or bad feeds at scrums?

Line Outs - they tell the ref is throw is crooked and will watch front if ref is at the back

Scrum - the usually mark offside for the backs. There is no reason a ref should need a TJ to spot a crooked feed.

Not always for line-out throws. Walsh stood at the front almost every time in Eng-Fra so clearly wasn't expecting his AR to deal with it.

It varies: all refs will usually ask for help with knock-ons they may have missed. Some refs (e.g. Kaplan) leave the off-sides to their ARs. Other things they ask for help on: forward passes, blind-side of rucks, binding at scrums (again it varies, some will say "give me a decision" others say "if it's down your side let me know and I'll come around and look"), etc...

There is no golden rule. All this is at the top level obv. At most levels, if you get ARs you may not have comms and hence are obviously limitted.

Always a good on line discussion.

Every time this topic is debated - most intelligent comment agrees that GPS/triangulation/Hawkeye with a bell/light/alarm in the ball is the only way that you'd eradicate the forward pass from the game.

Unless you had touch judges positioned every metre along both touchlines. Which would stretch resources.

Particularly in lower leagues and school games.