Leinster going forward HEC + Rabocop

First topic message reminder :

Hello fellow people lucky enough to be born in the greatest rugby province ever formed

That will annoy any outsiders looking in.

right so the world cup is over and we have our returning 14 back in the mix after some rest

Cullen
mcfadden
boss
jennings

need to play some rugby asap and i'm sure will not want to much rest before getting back to business

redden and cronin will not need too much of a rest either.

In my view we need to stagger the lads back and have close to a full team for the munster game in the aviva. What i would like to see when we have the lads back is for us to go undefeated to christmas, big ask i know, but we are european champs and should start acting like it.

Regarding the players that have been playing the last few weeks, i think it is hard to judge alot of them over the last few weeks as it was basically a new team. but i would like to see madigan and willis given more chances

What do you guys think going forward. Should we start making changes to our team
doing you think we should b replacing darcy or should the young players have to take it off them

Do any of you see Fitzgerald fitting in at 13 when BOD retires? I think it could potentially be his best position, as he is not fast enough for wing, not reliable enough at fullback, but I think his skills could be best utilised at 13.

I don't really think he is good enough a passer to be a centre myself. He seems ok then all of a sudden he passes to the floor five yards to the left or right of himself. Very disappointing.

We have a god like figure in midfield at the moment who can barely pass
so why cant we do it with fitz

D24tress wrote:We have a god like figure in midfield at the moment who can barely pass
so why cant we do it with fitz

I'm glad you said that because I was thinking the same...

I actually do think Fitzgerald might be an option at 13. I think he has more attributes to play there than Earls or McFadden.

Sorry for being slow but who is the god figure who can't pass? Darcy? If so I agree.

Yeah I agree with you Rodders.. Earls I think is a back three player with blinding pace. McFadden.. well I don't really know where he slots in yet. But at 13, Fitzgerald is definitely still quick, has great defence, good hands (generally), a good pass (generally) and can kick. At 12 the hands/pass may be an issue but not so much at 13. I think until Spence/an other take over at 13 Fitzgerald could be playing there for Leinster and Ireland.

Anybody have our heineken squad or know when its out

Do people not rate O'Malley?
I think when ever he has played for us he has been pretty damn good.

Despite his size he never misses tackles and he is excellent with ball in hand, great passer and serious feet and acceleration.

I rate O' Malley highly. He was brilliant away v ASM, when I saw him last year. Tormented Rougerie and Canale - in defence especially, and gave them a lot of hassle in attack.
So I have no doubt he has the right stuff.

If he's so feckin good why's he (and McFadden) still behind those two old geezers who can't run anymore??

I think that will start changing this year Rodders. Schmidt would have no problem doing it either. Kidney will though. Definitely McFadden for Darcy anyway. O' Malley will get oodles of PRO12 game time and some HC time.

Change gonna come...

A few of our 1st-teamers will be back for Edinburgh. They don't mention BOD, Darcy, Heaslip, Healy, Ross, Kearney or SOB - who played most every game in NZ.

Be interesting to see who Schmidt starts v Munster at Lansdowne the week after. I hope its Mcfadden and O' Malley.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/8726.php

I hope so too Gibbo. We'll marmalise those two over hyped ladyboys

Yeah roysh Stag. Our kids are better than your kids.

Yea right Gibbo. You're an old man team. Last year it was the old men - Ross, Cullen, Hines, Reddan, Jennings, Darcy, BOD, Horgan - that did your dirty work.

Sherry, Nagle, O'Mahony, Murray, Keatley, Earls, Barnes, Jones - and plenty more to come!!

Munster will build an actual generation like they've done before. Leinster dont capitalise on their underage dominance - your kids turn out shoite!

Who? Heard of Earls.. and we gave ye Jones as a charitable act. But the rest? Leinster Way boys to dominate Europe for the next 10 years. The script is already written...

Please keep up.

I think Gatland taught Kidney a lesson in this World Cup. He brought the young talent in and backed himself to coach them into a a top team. The Irish pundits were shocked that Priestland was starting against us and old man Jones was in the stands.

We produce a young flyhalf as good as Sexton (not actually young anymore), but when it came to the crunch he was sitting on the bench, still stuck behind the 34 year old O'Gara. I always suspected Kidney would revert to O'Gara when the pressure was on. Disappointing but predictably conservative. The Welsh youngsters won.

Youth won the day. But you have to believe in them and back them to believe in themselves. And you also have do the nasty work of dropping previously untouchable players when better options arise. I hope Schmidt will do this with our youngsters over the next couple of seasons. At some point he's going to have to decide not to start with BOD for a big match. It's hard to believe but that day is coming. I wonder will Schmidt have the balls to drop him when he's not the best option anymore.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I think Gatland taught Kidney a lesson in this World Cup. He brought the young talent in and backed himself to coach them into a a top team. The Irish pundits were shocked that Priestland was starting against us and old man Jones was in the stands.

We produce a young flyhalf as good as Sexton (not actually young anymore), but when it came to the crunch he was sitting on the bench, still stuck behind the 34 year old O'Gara. I always suspected Kidney would revert to O'Gara when the pressure was on. Disappointing but predictably conservative. The Welsh youngsters won.

Youth won the day. But you have to believe in them and back them to believe in themselves. And you also have do the nasty work of dropping previously untouchable players when better options arise. I hope Schmidt will do this with our youngsters over the next couple of seasons. At some point he's going to have to decide not to start with BOD for a big match. It's hard to believe but that day is coming. I wonder will Schmidt have the balls to drop him when he's not the best option anymore.

+ 1

Rogue - remind me how the youthful Irish backrow performed against the youthful Welsh backrow?

Sexton (& old man Reddan) had 30 minutes to make an impression against Wales. They didn't.

I hope you are not one of the ones who were castigating the selection of Murray & Earls - you know - giving youth a chance

Feckless, I'm not going on (I am), but I said that 2/3 years ago. Its Kidney's weakness. He realised it too late for the RWC, but seems to have learned his lesson. I pray he has anyway. Murray and Jones were great picks - at the last minute. At keys times though, and when it comes right down to it - under pressure - he defaults to what he knows

Schmidt will not hesitate to promote O Malley and McFadden over Darcy and BOD. Or Dom Ryan over Jennings. IF they take their chance, he'll stick with them and see how de aulfellas react. I'm all for it.

Want to see Keatley involved this year too. No point in sticking with ROG - other than to use his experience to help the younger lads. McGahan, Schmidt, McLoughlin and to a lesser extent - Elwood - must start the metamorphosis provincially though. So Kidney may not be given any choice. We cant have the dog wagging our provincial tails anymore. Like he did with TOL, Darcy, Fitzgerald and Flannery. Hayes and Horan before them too.

In Truth, we need a new coach. Kidney is not tactically the best. Shafted by Gatland FFS. But we are stuck with him for another 2 years. As long as he brings more talent through and does not just look to scrape out wins with the Óld Guard .. Ill be happy enough with him. He needs to leave a lasting legacy and not just think of his own, temporary - glory.

Schmidt was asked would he be Ireland's backs coach last week. He didn't say no. That would help immeasurably. Feek and Schmidt together? That would be good.

Schmidt as Coach of Ireland after 2013? That would be phhokin marvelous.

Sin E, why would I be castigating the selection of Murray & Earls? I've never said that. I believe Sexton should be Ireland's first choice 10 because I just honestly believe it. It's not some sort of Munster v Leinster selection game to me. I was all for Murray and Earls. Murray was great. Earls' try scoring record speaks for itself.

I think grizzled veterans are very valuable. Especially in the pack. But due to video analysis teams have to constantly evolve. Attacking play in particular does benefit from regular injections of youthful exuberance from 11 to 15. Just look at the attacking brilliance of Israel Dagg. It has very little to do with the number of caps he had accumulated. It's all about his (to quote the BBC) "coruscating pace, arrogance and daring, extra-sensory vision".

The fact is O'Driscoll and D'arcy are not tearing defences to shreds anymore. They used to. And I'll always have great memories of watching them at their best. They still have a bit left to contribute. But it's time to give McFadden the 12 jersey. And I'd also give O'Malley some Heineken Cup game time. Like McFadden was getting last year.

I think.. most of us buried that provincial pick for the sake of it shoite in the RWC. In fairness to us all. We got behind our team and started to Believe after the Oz game. It all unwound on fear and not Belief by the Coach when it came to the crunch.In the knockouts.

Same ol. Same ol. Kidney failed his remit (a SF) but will stay. MJ fails his... and will go.

On thinking about the Irish coaching gig after 2013... Id like to see Conor O' Shea and Schmidt take it on together. Imagine.

Isn't Rabocop an 80's sci-fi BlockBuster movie?

Feckless couldn't agree more, in fact I think I'll just stop posting and just go round + 1ing all your posts.

red_stag wrote:Sherry, Nagle, O'Mahony, Murray, Keatley, Earls, Barnes, Jones - and plenty more to come!!

Some of whom are even from Munster!

Looking forward to the day when you can stand on your own two feet and aren't a development province

We do have the monopoly on hookers, tightheads, scrumhalves and second rows in the country. Lets let Leinster hand back Ross Cronin Reddan.

Don’t know what you’re talking about Stag, we got Reddan from Wasps, Ross from Quins and Cronin from Connacht.

Feckless read your post again:

Feckless Rogue wrote:I think Gatland taught Kidney a lesson in this World Cup. He brought the young talent in and backed himself to coach them into a a top team. The Irish pundits were shocked that Priestland was starting against us and old man Jones was in the stands. Seems to be you are implying that by bringing a load of kids to the world cup, Gatland was brave and he should have had old man ROG in the stands. You also ignore completely that the only decent side that Wales beat was ourselves. They lost badly (through inexperience perhaps) to Australia.

We produce a young flyhalf as good as Sexton (not actually young anymore), but when it came to the crunch he was sitting on the bench, still stuck behind the 34 year old O'Gara. I always suspected Kidney would revert to O'Gara when the pressure was on. Disappointing but predictably conservative. The Welsh youngsters won. Sexton has only himself to blame. He go his chances and blew them. And no, the Welsh youngers didn't win. They lost against Australia because their kicking was so poor.

Youth won the day. Wales lost. But you have to believe in them and back them to believe in themselves. Plenty of young players have been given a chance. Healy, Earls, SOB & Murray took it. Sexton didn't.

And you also have do the nasty work of dropping previously untouchable players when better options arise. What better options. BOD & D'Arcy were still our best options in the centre. That is the sad fact.

I hope Schmidt will do this with our youngsters over the next couple of seasons. At some point he's going to have to decide not to start with BOD for a big match. It's hard to believe but that day is coming. I wonder will Schmidt have the balls to drop him when he's not the best option anymore. For the moment BOD is Leinster's best option at outside centre which says it all really about the rest of the talent. People may moan and groan about Earls being his replacement, but at this point in time, he is our best option there because he is the only option available to Kidney who can nail down the starting spot in his club.

Now please stop this silly revisionism about Sexton not getting his chance. He got 20 chances before the world cup to nail down the starting OH spot and he did not do it. No wonder the IRFU are begging ROG to hang on for another while.

Gibson wrote:I think.. most of us buried that provincial pick for the sake of it shoite in the RWC. In fairness to us all. We got behind our team and started to Believe after the Oz game. It all unwound on fear and not Belief by the Coach when it came to the crunch.In the knockouts.

Same ol. Same ol. Kidney failed his remit (a SF) but will stay. MJ fails his... and will go.

On thinking about the Irish coaching gig after 2013... Id like to see Conor O' Shea and Schmidt take it on together. Imagine.

Well done Gibbo on all that restraint over the RWC - I'm sure Declan Kidney enjoyed the reprieve from the endless criticisms from you of him.

You do know that Conor O'Shea picked ROG to start against Wales And he still has DOC as the starting 2nd row and no sign of Jennings anywhere Didn't Schmidt drop Jennings for the Heine Final as well. Had to bring him on at half time.

Sin your post might make more sense except for the fact that Wales beat us by 12 points and reached the SF and we were knocked out in the QF.

Nevin Spence, James Downey, Darren Cave and Danny Barnes are all 1st choice players so to say Earls is 'the only option' available to Kidney is nonsence. Bowe and Trimble also have top level experience of playing in the centre. There are options even ignoring guys like McFadden and O'Malley who are not yet 1st choice.

Sexton has played well more often than not for me and has been the lynchpin behind some of the best Irish performances in recent times, maybe ever, so I'm not sure how he hasn't taken his chances?

He didn’t drop Jennings for the final. Jennings was just coming back from injury and McLaughlin had played himself into the team by then. He was rewarding McLaughlin’s good form, not dropping Jennings.

The HC squad has been announced. No Shaggy…

Wow big call. Fionn Carr is in I take it.

Shaggy is injured Stag.

If he regains fitness he can be added back into the squad, but there are a finite number of changes that can be made. Carr (among others) is in there.

FORWARDS: Leo Auva’a, Isaac Boss, Damian Browne, Seán Cronin, Leo Cullen, Aaron Dundon, Jamie Hagan, Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip, Shane Jennings, Jack McGrath, Kevin McLaughlin, Seán O’Brien, Jack O’Connell, Mike Ross, Rhys Ruddock, Richardt Strauss, Dominic Ryan, Steven Sykes, Devin Toner, Heinke Van Der Merwe, Nathan White.
BACKS: Mat Berquist, Fionn Carr, Andrew Conway, John Cooney, Gordon D’Arcy, Luke Fitzgerald, David Kearney, Rob Kearney, Brendan Macken, Ian Madigan, Fergus McFadden, Isa Nacewa, Brian O’Driscoll, Eoin O’Malley, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton.

berquist is in the backs

and boss is down as a forward

Mickado wrote:The HC squad has been announced. No Shaggy…

Ah Jayzuz. Thats... I love Shaggy. I hope he makes it back. I reckoned this was his last year. He was one of our best players last year too.

Believe Shaggy!

Must analyse that squad. Is someone setting up a thread lads?

Gowan Mick you do it man.

And Sin... it's great to get back to normal, mo chara. We were a good team during the RWC. Now ... all bets are off. Nice.

Mickado wrote:Shaggy is injured Stag.

If he regains fitness he can be added back into the squad, but there are a finite number of changes that can be made. Carr (among others) is in there.

FORWARDS: Leo Auva’a, Isaac Boss, Damian Browne, Seán Cronin, Leo Cullen, Aaron Dundon, Jamie Hagan, Cian Healy, Jamie Heaslip, Shane Jennings, Jack McGrath, Kevin McLaughlin, Seán O’Brien, Jack O’Connell, Mike Ross, Rhys Ruddock, Richardt Strauss, Dominic Ryan, Steven Sykes, Devin Toner, Heinke Van Der Merwe, Nathan White.
BACKS: Mat Berquist, Fionn Carr, Andrew Conway, John Cooney, Gordon D’Arcy, Luke Fitzgerald, David Kearney, Rob Kearney, Brendan Macken, Ian Madigan, Fergus McFadden, Isa Nacewa, Brian O’Driscoll, Eoin O’Malley, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton.

BTW, where did you get this Mick? Not on Leinster website, ERC or RTE?

It's on the Irish times one lads.
Like the squad a lot bar Shaggy missing out obviously

I think of all of our players Darcy is the one who needs replacing the most then probably Skyes although that is debatable.

What is most noticeable when you take a close look at it is, is that BOD is quite high up on the list of guys who should/will be replaced first

Im sticking me neck out here and reckon Macken will be the one to replace him. Over O Malley... after a tussle.

The boy is brimming with BODliness...

I think we have to have 2 new guys in the centre soon because BOD has been analysed like crazy and he rarely gets the breaks he used to, more alarming still is he is starting to miss more tackles than he ever has before or at least lose yards in the tackle where he used to not lose those yards

Is O'Malley better at 12 or 13? Or is he just as good as both as this stage..

O'Malley is an-out-and-out 13, imo Rory. Fast feet, great step and vision. Not an up de middle basher. Though very strong in the tackle.

Yeah I noticed that as well Gibson, he never seems to lose substantial yards in the tackle and yet he isn't a guy who makes loads of yards in the tackle unless its through stepping.

His feet are stupidly fast.