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Groves Versus Smith - BoxNation - November 5th

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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:42 pm

Good domestic fight here and surprisingly hasn't really been talked about.
Of course it's the old age, well Degale beat Smith, Groves beat Degale, so Groves beats Smith.

I don't rate Smith that highly to be honest, not the greatest technician you will ever see however will exert enough pressure on Groves to make this a real fight. Groves has been pitted tough and he hasn't had many fights, but the tough fights keep coming. I see Groves winning by a stoppage late, or a comfortable points decision. How do you guys see it?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:44 pm

He beat Degale but I still have doubts about the kid.....Just something...

Think Degale is slightly better and even he might be overrated...

Think Smith will give him more trouble than people think..

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Post by Waingro Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:47 pm

Groves will knock him out Smith is not on his level and I think Groves can beat him by boxing or brawling whichever he wants.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:49 pm

I get that feeling as well Truss, there's something that's just not quite right about Groves, obviously a massive talent but just get a feeling there's a big flaw and he's going to get unstuck, hope not however because he's a terrific guy and seems to genuinely want to be the best and seems extremely willing to face the best as well, would be great to see this guy take over the throne from Froch, you do wonder whats going to happen in terms of Frank having 2 extremely good SMW's because there's only one WBO World Title.

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:51 pm

There's absolutely no way that Groves loses this; Smith is just far too easy to hit, incredibly so at times. Brings little speed (which Groves had more of than I thought he would last time out against DeGale) and won't be able to discourage Groves due to a lack of genuine power.

What he does bring, however, is a game and gritty attitude and a decent work rate. I think that will see him through to the latter stages and probably even to the final bell, where a wide decision win (something like 118-110) awaits Groves. Will be another good learning experience for him, but I expect he'll need to do the full twelve rounds as I don't think we'll see Smith fighting as aggressively as he did against DeGale.
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Post by The Galveston Giant Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:53 pm

I think there was too much pressure on Groves to move his career along at the same speed as Degale's. He could have done with learning his trade a bit more before stepping up. Degale has found his level for the minute and will have to improve before stepping up again.
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Post by Waingro Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:55 pm

Groves and Degale will have a rematch soon and Degale will win imo

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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:02 pm

Waingro wrote:Groves and Degale will have a rematch soon and Degale will win imo

Not too sure, a very good durable plodder type fighter almost had him, was very easy to find, think Degale is either moving at too fast a pace right now, or is not quite as good as we originally thought.

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:06 pm

I think a rematch between the pair isn't on the cards any time soon, and to be honest I wouldn't want to see it happen until a little further down the line. Right now, I doubt Warren would risk it; if DeGale were to lose again his career really would be stalling.

No, keep them on different paths for now, see where they are in 2013 / 2014, and if they've risen a level or so (ie, fighting for world rather than British / European straps) then make it happen. Until then, I'm not sure it's in the best interests of either man.
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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:13 pm

88Chris05 wrote:I think a rematch between the pair isn't on the cards any time soon, and to be honest I wouldn't want to see it happen until a little further down the line. Right now, I doubt Warren would risk it; if DeGale were to lose again his career really would be stalling.

No, keep them on different paths for now, see where they are in 2013 / 2014, and if they've risen a level or so (ie, fighting for world rather than British / European straps) then make it happen. Until then, I'm not sure it's in the best interests of either man.

The main thing is, Warren will know that it doesn't matter if both of them make it to World Level.
Due to the rivalry let's say for example Groves goes on and wins a world title, but Degales career stalls, the fight can still easily be made due to Warren being both of there Promoters and the rivalry between them.
Case and point: Cleverly - Bellew. Except these two sell even better.

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:23 pm

I agree Alex - as long as one of them gets to world level, a rematch is always a decent enough option if needed. But neither of them are right now.
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Post by manos de piedra Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:24 pm

I dont know if Warren is long term thinking enough about those two to plan a future world title fight years down the line. Anything can happen before then and its no garauntee either fighter will actually make it to that point intact. Warren might decide its better to cash in now.

I also suspect DeGale is really dying for a rematch and if Warren doesnt deliver it he may become disillusioned. Groves I imagine would be happy to go again given the money available and the fact he feels he can win it.

If both guys were certs to make world stage I think Warren would wait but the SMW division is quite tough at the moment and signs aound suggest DeGale and Groves may not be ready for world title anytime soon. So cant say I would be too surprised to see chapter 2 next year.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:42 pm

There is always a chance of that happening Manos.

I get a feeling however he will let it stew for now, I don't think he wants to risk Degale. Another loss to him although he won't be in an unrecoverable position but would seriously dampen his career.

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Post by hogey Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:06 pm

Groves should beat Smith fairly comfortably as Smith is not much more than a one dimensional plodder, i hope that Groves is smart enough to not try to prove that he can get the job done quicker than Degale and just concentrates on using his boxing and the stoppage will come.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:27 pm

alma wrote:Just a shame this is happening really. Groves beat DeGale after all and the latter is now Euro champ. Hope Groves doesn't get left behind

he wont be left behind he will get a title shot i have little doubt about that. but dont forget he hasnt had too many fights either. i think groves is a smart guy who wants to learn his trade first and defending his british title is doing that.

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Post by bhb001 Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:34 pm

As super middleweights, Degale and Groves are a long way behind Froch, Kessler, Ward and Bute, as well as many of the other yop contenders. I can't see either of them making a splash on the world stage any time soon, which isn't suprising given how few fights they have both had.

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Post by JDandfries Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:03 pm

Not a fan of Groves, he was lucky against DeGale, in the sense that DeGale didnt have a plan B, and Groves wont be able to fight on teh back foot against Smith.

So, given that Groves display agaisnt Kenny Anderson, who stepped in last minute and who is limited anyway, I still have resevations and could see Smith winning this as Groves when not running all fight (ala v's DeGale) is easy to hit!

Should be a good watch though!

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Post by John Bloody Wayne Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:20 pm

I don't see it as being lucky that Degale didn't have the ringsmart to work Groves out. It's a testament to Groves ability to use his head and stick to a gameplan.

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Post by hogey Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:59 pm

JDandfries wrote:Not a fan of Groves, he was lucky against DeGale, in the sense that DeGale didnt have a plan B, and Groves wont be able to fight on teh back foot against Smith.

So, given that Groves display agaisnt Kenny Anderson, who stepped in last minute and who is limited anyway, I still have resevations and could see Smith winning this as Groves when not running all fight (ala v's DeGale) is easy to hit!

Should be a good watch though!

Groves was not lucky he won a close fight fair and square it was Degale who's limitations were shown up in the fact he was unable to adapt to his opponent, Groves on the other hand showed he is learning fast by changing his style to deal with Degale and that kind of boxing brain usually will take a young fighter a long way if he has the skill to match.
Kenny Anderson by the way is a lot better fighter than many give him credit for and well rated by many in the game, i would confidently expect him to beat Smith inside the distance everyday of the week if they share a ring anytime soon.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:45 pm

Groves seems to be inheriting a little smugness from Booth lately...seems awfully pleased with himself....

Kind of hoping Smith pulls off a surprise..

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Post by AlexHuckerby Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:56 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Groves seems to be inheriting a little smugness from Booth lately...seems awfully pleased with himself....

Kind of hoping Smith pulls off a surprise..

Jesus Christ can a guy not be in the slightest bit happy? Or does he have to mope around trying to annoy people with articles such as Ottke is a great?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:59 pm

Grow up Son.......

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Post by AlexHuckerby Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:01 pm

Well I'm 19... I think it's you that needs to grow up considering all you do is try and annoy people on here...

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:07 pm

All I put was he's a bit smug and you throw abuse....

Still If you think you are impressing people then that's okay....

Freedom of speech and all that..

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Post by AlexHuckerby Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:08 pm

How on earth is he smug? What does he do and say that makes him smug?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:17 pm

His analysis of beating Degale on SKY made it look like he thrashed his butt....

That was a little over the top for me.....

I had him by a round and if he'd lost I wouldn't have minded..

Wasn't the clinic he suggested with his all-too-smug trainer.....

Didn't like it...It's my opinion and I'm sorry it isn't wanted on your thread..

i've no problem with you but for some reason you seem to be looking to antagonise....

Willing to forget about all this c**p if you are..

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Post by AlexHuckerby Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:20 pm

Truss you blatantly goad people in, but yeah whatever it's fine.

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Post by HumanWindmill Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:58 pm

Cut it out, now.

I've just been running my backside off chasing your other spat, and I'm running out of patience.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:00 pm

Haven't started anything...any fairminded observer will notice that..

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Post by AlexHuckerby Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:02 pm

Never is you is it involved a lot however.

But fair enough Windy... 'Tis a bit ridiculous.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:38 pm

"Never is you is it involved a lot however......."

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Post by AlexHuckerby Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:57 pm

...

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:02 pm

Thought you'd want to clarify that bit of French..but I see even you are confused..

No worries..

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Post by AlexHuckerby Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:06 pm

Oh I meant

You are constantly involved in these type of disputes Truss, but it never seems to be your fault in your own words, strange isn't it.

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Post by tex cobb Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:39 pm

I think that Groves has DeGale's number, Don't necessarily think he's better but he has his number. And even worse for Degale, he knows it!!

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Post by AlexHuckerby Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:43 pm

tex cobb wrote:I think that Groves has DeGale's number, Don't necessarily think he's better but he has his number. And even worse for Degale, he knows it!!

Not sure he has his number as I think there are simple modifications Degale would definately do next time around if they do face again, but Groves has won the battle in the mentality department most certainly now,

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Post by KingMonkey Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:45 am

I think that Groves has every right to be smug, not that I think he is. Nobody, including me, gave Groves a chance against Degale but the boy came good on the night. Fair play to him!

I'd love to see Anderson in the ring with a Smith level fighter soon, he looks like he deserves it.

As for Groves - Smith specifically; Smith looks determined and ready for this so Groves is going to have to be on his game. He's a good fighter but he's a domestic fighter and Groves should have too much for him.

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Post by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:27 pm

I actually think that smith can beat groves. Degale is not a come forward fighter and groves knew that, hence the game plan, degale likes to potshot. When he managed to trade with groves he was getting the better of him. Degale won the fight imo by a point but i didn't argue with the decision. Smith however is a come forward fighter, he lacks the skills of degale and handspeed but has heavier hands and a greater workload. Groves won't be able to run away from smith as smith won't give him the space. He should be able to keep him on the outside but if smith gets close, i really don't rate groves chin. Anderson isn't as good smith and anderson managed take him down when he got on the inside.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:32 am

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:I actually think that smith can beat groves. Degale is not a come forward fighter and groves knew that, hence the game plan, degale likes to potshot. When he managed to trade with groves he was getting the better of him. Degale won the fight imo by a point but i didn't argue with the decision. Smith however is a come forward fighter, he lacks the skills of degale and handspeed but has heavier hands and a greater workload. Groves won't be able to run away from smith as smith won't give him the space. He should be able to keep him on the outside but if smith gets close, i really don't rate groves chin. Anderson isn't as good smith and anderson managed take him down when he got on the inside.

I'm not too sure about this, I think Anderson is a better fighter than Smith. Smith has a lot more experience in the pro game, but lacks the fundamentals that Anderson had. Anderson had a fantastic amateur career and if they fought I would give the edge to Anderson, personally.

I don't disagree that Smith can win, because he is most certainly a live opponent for Groves I struggle to see him do this, Groves is a very good fighter, and is improving rapidly, so many people said that he didn't have a good defense but against Degale that was his best weapon in the fight, hand speed wise think he was just as good if not better.

It confuses me a little as to why some people think Groves is a level below Degale as I think if anything he's ahead of him. Groves chin held up to a lot of shots against Anderson who appears to be a have quite a dig, yes he did go down, but he came back up took a lot of shots and really put the pressure on Anderson and wore him down.

Also I'm not really too sure as to whether Degale was getting the better of Groves when they ended up trading shots, seemed on an even-keel to me but with groves being smarter and moving away from shots and stopping Degale from working.

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