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Who wins - Carnera or Valuev? With a poll!!!

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Who wins - Carnera or Valuev

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Post by oxring Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:05 pm

This came up on a different topic - and I reckon its worthy of more exploration.

Simple question - who wins - the first giant or the second? How and why as well please.

For the record - this would be a painfully dull fight.
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Post by 88Chris05 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:09 pm

Carnera actually had a worthwhile punch, and was slightly more mobile. Actually can't put in to words how awful Valuev is / was. Literally, his only credential for being a 'world champion' is that he's a massive lump. His performances against Holyfield and Haye were, to put it mildly, a disgrace.
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Post by oxring Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:11 pm

Who clicked Valuev? Own up!!!
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Post by 88Chris05 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:13 pm

oxring wrote:Who clicked Valuev? Own up!!!

Waingro, of course! Valuev went the distance with an 'all time great Cruiserweight' in Haye, remember, and would probably have beaten Dempsey and Louis too, simply because he's bigger and being bigger means that you always win in boxing, don't you know?
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:14 pm

Could you imagine paying for this fight.....Two lumbering lummexes........

Carnera was busier.....had a bit more idea and for me wins a decision..

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Post by HumanWindmill Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:15 pm

Carnera for me, oxy.

Everybody and his dog knows that Carnera received a few ' favours ' on his way up, but there's little doubt that somewhere along the way he picked up reasonable fundamental skills. He was also light on his feet, though inclined to be a bit clumsy, and possessed a jab about which even Joe Louis expressed concern.

Heart of a lion, too. Anybody who hasn't seen the entire Carnera v Baer fight might be very surprised at what was going on during the middle of the fight. Carnera was actually making a fight of it, and clawing back some ground. Of course, Baer liked to go ' walkabout ' during a fight but, even so, Da Preem earned some corn for a very gutsy showing during some of those middle rounds.

Carnera, of course, didn't take a huge punch very well. Jury is out as to whether or not Valuev hits hard, but I dare say that if he gets his timing right and lands one flush he could knock Carnera senseless.

If not, though, I'd say Carnera wins a stinkfest over the long haul, and I reckon that to be the percentage call.

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Post by oxring Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:16 pm

88Chris05 wrote:
oxring wrote:Who clicked Valuev? Own up!!!

Waingro, of course! Valuev went the distance with an 'all time great Cruiserweight' in Haye, remember, and would probably have beaten Dempsey and Louis too, simply because he's bigger and being bigger means that you always win in boxing, don't you know?

Unless you come up against all time great cruiserweights like Haye - Chris - keep up ;-)

2 people for Valuev? Explain yourselves...
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:20 pm

"Last one up is a sissy".....The Baer - Carnera fight was a spectacle wasn't it although I think my friend overplays Carnera's hand in the fight!!

11 times decked wasn't he???

Baer was messing about in his ice bucket between rounds apparently....

Carnera for me... although I'm not sure I buy his win over Jack!!!!

A nice guy who deserved better from life....always be however Undisputed heavy champ and the greatest Italian heavy of alltime....

The Bogart film is based on his career I believe.......sad very sad.

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Post by oxring Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:22 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:"Last one up is a sissy".....The Baer - Carnera fight was a spectacle wasn't it although I think my friend overplays Carnera's hand in the fight!!

11 times decked wasn't he???

Baer was messing about in his ice bucket between rounds apparently....

Carnera for me... although I'm not sure I buy his win over Jack!!!!

A nice guy who deserved better from life....always be however Undisputed heavy champ and the greatest Italian heavy of alltime....

The Bogart film is based on his career I believe.......sad very sad.

Yep - one of the few examples where the film matches up to the life IMO. I like the touch in the film that he never makes it to be champ. Course - the fact that he was champ and still wound up destitute is arguably even more sad I suppose.
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Post by manos de piedra Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:23 pm

Is it really so impossible that Valuev wins?

I would guess the outcome would be close and the fight ugly. Valuev is significantly bigger than Carnera and would appear to be alot more durable.

I would guess Carnera might just about have the skills to outpoint Valuev but cant say I would shocked if Valuev won a scrappy decision either.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:25 pm

These people who use these guys...leave them spent and then disregard them..... are the worst kind of slime on this planet...

and there is a lot of these people around.......sadly!!

Look at Tyson and his not so merry men..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:28 pm

Think it's Valuev's lack of speed and Carnera's power that makes it more conceivable that Carnera wins.....

Valuev just doesn't throw enough punches..

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Post by oxring Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:48 pm

manos de piedra wrote:Is it really so impossible that Valuev wins?

I would guess the outcome would be close and the fight ugly. Valuev is significantly bigger than Carnera and would appear to be alot more durable.

I would guess Carnera might just about have the skills to outpoint Valuev but cant say I would shocked if Valuev won a scrappy decision either.

Not buying it. For a start - Carnera beat/"beat" Sharkey - who insisted that was the one fight he didn't fix - and Sharkey is a better win than anything Valuev has.

See - I'd have to ask - how does Valuev win? He doesn't throw many punches, he's inaccurate, he doesn't have much power, he's got lousy footwork and he relies on hometown judging decisions.

So how does Carnera beat Valuev? His footwork is better, he throws more punches with more power.

Course - if the fight is in Germany or Switzerland, Carnera could knock him out and lose.

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Post by Rowley Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:52 pm

Think Carnera is by no means as poor as he is often credited with being, am by no means arguing he is a great but had a half decent dig, plenty of heart and as he showed in the Loughran fight pretty sound fundamentals, relatively speaking. Valuev does not punch anywhere near as hard as he should for his size and has the mobility and speed of a tug boat. Can't see anything other than a Carnera win.

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Post by manos de piedra Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:54 pm

How did Valuev beat anyone? Ugly, scrappy fights where his size made things difficult for his opponent.

Carnera may be better, but hes smaller, not great himself and less durable.

Carnera may well win but you seem to be suggesting this is a mismatch when I think its close, ugly fight. And sizewise they are both big but Valuev is by far the bigger.

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Post by Rowley Mon 31 Oct 2011, 5:59 pm

Was far from my intention to suggest it would be a mismatch, genuinely don't think Carnera is good enough to go into any fight with a world level fighter where that match would be considered a mismatch. Do however feel he is just a good bit better all round than Valuev who to be honest I think is truly awful

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Post by manos de piedra Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:03 pm

rowley wrote:Was far from my intention to suggest it would be a mismatch, genuinely don't think Carnera is good enough to go into any fight with a world level fighter where that match would be considered a mismatch. Do however feel he is just a good bit better all round than Valuev who to be honest I think is truly awful

Apologies rowley, my point was to oxring, above. Should have used the quote function.

Much as Valuev is rubbish, I still think hes awkward to all but quality fighters and Im not sure Carnera has that kind of ability. I would see it as a pretty scrappy affair.

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Post by Rowley Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:07 pm

Can agree it is not a fight I'd be clearing the diary to be at Manos.

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Post by oxring Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:22 pm

manos de piedra wrote:Carnera may well win but you seem to be suggesting this is a mismatch when I think its close, ugly fight. And sizewise they are both big but Valuev is by far the bigger.

Oh - apologies - I fully agree - this fight is a stinker. I don't think Valuev's size make him the favourite - as for me, Carnera is the better fighter. However, Valuev's size makes the fight interesting and stops Carnera being the dead favourite. For me - 60/40 for Carnera IMO.
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Post by Scottrf Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:22 pm

Carnera-Valuev: When you know you've exhausted every fantasy matchup.

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Post by oxring Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:26 pm

Scottrf wrote:Carnera-Valuev: When you know you've exhausted every fantasy matchup.

We never did Skelton-Audley; prime v prime.
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Post by manos de piedra Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:35 pm

oxring wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Carnera may well win but you seem to be suggesting this is a mismatch when I think its close, ugly fight. And sizewise they are both big but Valuev is by far the bigger.

Oh - apologies - I fully agree - this fight is a stinker. I don't think Valuev's size make him the favourite - as for me, Carnera is the better fighter. However, Valuev's size makes the fight interesting and stops Carnera being the dead favourite. For me - 60/40 for Carnera IMO.

Yeah I would agree I would make Carnera a favourite but only to edge an ugly fight.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:46 pm

to be honest although its an awful fight its pretty interesting...

i could go with valuev to win in truth. there is nothing good about him however with the fact that carnera *ahem* isnt what you would call a mover i could see valuevs reach being a decisive factor in the mid rounds to just allow him to nick it.


Last edited by AlexHuckerby on Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by BALTIMORA Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:55 pm

I think this fight would be a huge and pleasant surprise.

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Post by BALTIMORA Mon 31 Oct 2011, 6:57 pm

I believe it's a hypathetical one, but I still think it would pleasantly surprise anyone who tuned in. Any man willing to wrestle a yeti into submission has to be worth a look.

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Post by ShahenshahG Mon 31 Oct 2011, 8:29 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4CobVNTwL0

had he a better technique we would be honouring the late Monte Barret. Valuev wears #carnera down by leaning on him then knocks him out in round 11 in a fight so boring that it will become standard precription for insomnia.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Mon 31 Oct 2011, 10:48 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4CobVNTwL0

had he a better technique we would be honouring the late Monte Barret. Valuev wears #carnera down by leaning on him then knocks him out in round 11 in a fight so boring that it will become standard precription for insomnia.

still wouldnt get me to sleep though!

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Post by WelshDevilRob Fri 04 Nov 2011, 1:18 pm

Valuev because he took David Haye the distance and his fights weren't fixed.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Fri 04 Nov 2011, 2:20 pm

WelshDevilRob wrote:Valuev because he took David Haye the distance and his fights weren't fixed.

David Haye took him the distance.

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