ATP 1000 Paris Bercy 2011

First topic message reminder :

Here we are again...the last tournament of the year, the second indoor 1000 event, Paris Bercy 2011.


And just like in Shanghai, it seems it won't be complete with the best players around: as things stand Djokovic Murray and Federer are all playing, but few will be surprised to see Djokovic pull out in the light of Saturday's injury.

Nadal and Del Potro are also not playing, still, a strong field with Tsonga, Monfils etc promising good fun for tennis fans.


Assuming we have now only Federer and Murray left in the draw as number 1 and 2 seeds**, and that Murray doesn't have any "freak" night injuries, we still have plenty to look forward to in terms of tennis, especially as the surface of Paris Bercy seems to have been made faster*, giving us some really good matches and all-court tennis last year.
* ouch! the surface is back to "slow". According to Andy Murray.
** double ouch! Novak IS playing

The draw:
http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2011/352/mds.pdf


Order of play for the final, Sunday, 13th of November 2011:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/posting/2011/352/op.pdf

With only a few spots left for World Tour Masters year end event in London, it will be interesting to see how things unfold.

Manojchandra - well said

I think any balanced tennis enthusiast cannot fail to admire and respect Rafa's achievements and talent, even if some might not consider him the most attractive player to watch.

It's the 'exclusive' fans as you put it that soon become boorish and tiresome. They have little interest in courteous debate and rational exchange of views. Such fanatics would be better off joining a fan club and just exchanging niceties with others of the same narrow mentality ......

You see, that's why we needs fools. When people start having words about their own rational and balanced views, I get worried.

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool?"

Tenez wrote:You see, that's why we needs fools. When people start having words about their own rational and balanced views, I get worried.

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool?"

If that's what we need, best get in touch with Simple Analyst and bring him back pronto !

Exactly. Many set ideas are worth systematic questioning.

I have to say that despite Federer winning and a much deserved title, the spectacle I found it poor.

The court was like mud. Just wasn't going to provide thrilling matches. I think the match that summed it up was Murray v Roddick. I watched this back on Sky+ and watching Roddick just pound the ball with powerful effort and then watching it just grip off the surface was sad viewing. Murray sliced him to death, and no gripe on Murray's tactics at all because I think the slower surface hampered his game too. It was a court by where back of the length was the winner. Tsonga struggled with it too. Federer played the perfect week and the surface helped him against Tsonga as he could not hit through him and more time on the ball helped him pick and place his shots to perfection.

Roger though. Good to see him win a title and in doing so becoming the only player to reach the finals of all Master 1000 events. Another record for the maestro.

Tenez.... seem to think it was member JuliusHMarx who came up with one of the best-ever ripostes to the many weird ramblings of the Uneducated one back on the old 606.

IIRC, it was along the lines of "Now 'fess up, UE .... you don't actually believe any of this guff you write, do you ....?"

TMF - just going to settle down and watch recording of match!

lags72 wrote:Tenez.... seem to think it was member JuliusHMarx who came up with one of the best-ever ripostes to the many weird ramblings of the Uneducated one back on the old 606.

IIRC, it was along the lines of "Now 'fess up, UE .... you don't actually believe any of this guff you write, do you ....?"

Yep. That was funny. Unforced_Error was a real clown he came here as SA and tried to be more serious but Nadal's results killed him off.

legendkillar wrote:I have to say that despite Federer winning and a much deserved title, the spectacle I found it poor.

The court was like mud. Just wasn't going to provide thrilling matches. I think the match that summed it up was Murray v Roddick. I watched this back on Sky+ and watching Roddick just pound the ball with powerful effort and then watching it just grip off the surface was sad viewing. Murray sliced him to death, and no gripe on Murray's tactics at all because I think the slower surface hampered his game too.

Very similar score between those 2 on queens grass a few months ago. EIther pace doesn;t really play much of a role between those 2 or grass is very slow nowadays too.

Tenez wrote:

legendkillar wrote:I have to say that despite Federer winning and a much deserved title, the spectacle I found it poor.

The court was like mud. Just wasn't going to provide thrilling matches. I think the match that summed it up was Murray v Roddick. I watched this back on Sky+ and watching Roddick just pound the ball with powerful effort and then watching it just grip off the surface was sad viewing. Murray sliced him to death, and no gripe on Murray's tactics at all because I think the slower surface hampered his game too.

Very similar score between those 2 on queens grass a few months ago. EIther pace doesn;t really play much of a role between those 2 or grass is very slow nowadays too.

Queens was actually fast this year. I think Murray did well in that match to stop Roddick hitting the FH inside the baseline.

Paris was ugly. It was such a shame to see Roddick actually losing heart in that match because of the conds just Poopie up his game. I think it must've frustrated Murray as he couldn't be as expansive as he normally is.

I though Paris was very slow too. You see that by the effort players put in trying to generate pace. they look technically flawed.

Tenez wrote:I though Paris was very slow too. You see that by the effort players put in trying to generate pace. they look technically flawed.

Roddick looked genuinely disgusted with the court. It offered him absolutely nothing. Tsonga struggled, when he had to play to length against Federer, there was only one winner. Berdych found length against Murray but against Federer, just couldn't because anything short just gave so much variety to Federer. A good thing Nadal was not there

I actually think it helped Tsonga more than Federer. Tsonga was goven more time to pull the trigger than he woudl have had on faster courts.

That is actually the problem at WImby. The balls are so slow towards teh baseline that powerful players can really hammer the ball and hit through the weaker players.

I think that would've been the case on a medium slow court but on a snail pace court like this it just blunts Tsonga's weapons.

Like Lk said, Fed on the other hand gets a bit more time to pick his shots and time them better.

Also Fed has more variety and so can fall back on plan B. Tsonga doesn't really have a plan B.

Tenez wrote:I actually think it helped Tsonga more than Federer. Tsonga was goven more time to pull the trigger than he woudl have had on faster courts.

That is actually the problem at WImby. The balls are so slow towards teh baseline that powerful players can really hammer the ball and hit through the weaker players.

I don't think the surface helped Tsonga at all. When he played Garcia-Lopez he slowed his FH down and played a much more low risk game.

The first set yesterday showed how the surface choked the Tsonga FH, When he tried to hit a flatter lower FH it hit the net. He didn't really stand a chance.

emancipator wrote:Like Lk said, Fed on the other hand gets a bit more time to pick his shots and time them better.

Of course the old man walking with a racquet on one hand and a stick on the other got enough time to reach the balls.


Tsonga himself said he was rushed despite playing on slow courts. The match was about who was pulling the trigger first and again the old man with slow reactions and slow mouvements was teh better at it!

If the slow pace was favouring Garcia Lopez over Tsonga, then Berdych woudl have had zero chance of winning v Murray.

Tenez wrote:If the slow pace was favouring Garcia Lopez over Tsonga, then Berdych woudl have had zero chance of winning v Murray.

Like I said previously Berdych found length against Murray. As the game wore on and Berdych found his length, Murray struggled. Many of the reasons Murray has a poor clay form when playing players with big FH's who find length. Dynamically the difference between Berdych and Tsonga is that Berdych plays a slower pace, Tsonga looked he was playing on roller skates because of how quickly he was getting to the balls.

it's an interesting one this, and I've always held the views that Fed actually likes slow hard courts, as it gives him more time to get into position and run around the backhand. I think Murray once commented on how hard it was to find Fed's backhand on slower courts.

Let's remember Federer was brought up on clay, and in fact the only guy who's beaten him on clay with any sort of regularity is Nadal, and that's not only because the courts are slower but more because the higher bounce and bigger kick his topspin FH can get, making it very difficut for Fed's SHBH (and indeed most DHBHs) to cope.

I do think in the final Tsonga was really struggling to hit through Federer, and the slowness of the court certainly didn't help him. On the other hand, last year's quicker courts saw Fed knocked out by Monfils. People often forget just how good Federer's defensive game is due to the sheer brilliance of his attacking tennis, but there's no doubt he's a far superior defender to Tsonga.

Good point about slow courts and clay MFC .....

Nadal is the only active player to boast a better career record on clay than Federer

thought it might be something like that lags... People say Federer's weakness is clay, WRONG! Federer's weakness is NADAL ON CLAY!

I don;t think Federer likes slow courts more than fast courts, the other way way around actually. WHat he likes is covered courts where he gets the same bounce all week long, be it hot, cold, windy or esle outside. That's why he is constantly talking about the conds at teh AO, Wimby or USO.

Federer's main weapon is his timing and anything that affects it like external conds will blunt his "weapon" to some extend. THat's why he has a great record indoors where teh conds are unchanged.

His record on Indoors Shanghai was also pretty good and where his best tennis was played.

Tenez wrote:
Federer's main weapon is his timing and anything that affects it like external conds will blunt his "weapon" to some extend. THat's why he has a great record indoors where teh conds are unchanged.

Soderling could not find his serve in windy conditions and Federer raced ahead. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIf19jh7uyE. Once it was quiet, it was a good contest.

The Agassi USO 2004 with Hurricane Frances in waiting... - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cIOX352oNU