Apparently this week we wil find out who stays and who goes in the England camp.

Johnson will find out his fate, or will decide on his path. No leaks as to a decision yet from either him or the rfu. But it seems that the rfu have little to do with it and the professional games board now decide what the rfu should do?

Surely it is the national union, the rfu who should be running the game? Not a myriad of commitiees?

"Johnson is still wracked with guilt as to the handling of events in New Zealand and is giving serious consideration to not continuing in the job. There may also be pressure from the PGB, the joint venture between union, clubs and players, for him to stand down when it meets on Thursday." telegraph.

Apparently forwards coach John Wells, and attack coach Brian Smith will not have their contracts renewed, while there is support for scrum coach Graham Rowntree and defence coach Mike Ford.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/8887750/England-manager-Martin-Johnsons-doubts-grow-as-Professional-Game-Board-meets-to-discuss-RWC-findings.html

This isn't good, England threatening to get their act together and appoint some decent coaches is all we need.

I think I can cope with rowntree and ford staying. Our defence wasn't too shabby nor the scrums.

What is clear,is that the RFU should be swept away,a NEW competent one empowered.
THEN look at Martin Johnson as manager[or not],then select Coaches,then look to a settled England side.
There is a lot of young talent,in and around the squad,BUT just being a good U20 squad member,or having good Aviva form.
Mean they are the Worlds best YET,as some posters here seem to think.
6Ns was a real step forward last year,winning it with sensible balanced Rugby.
RWC we scraped past Argentina,admittedly they are a difficult side to break down.BUT they lost 2 star players injured during the match,if you are honest
Scxotland deserved to win there match.
A couple of pool matches we won moving the ball,but Georgia were tough up front.
Then the Q/F and that strange decision to play Wilkinson/Flood at 10/12.
Most here could pick and England side,and chances are theywould differ a lot depending on who you support clubwise.
Incidentally Rob Andrew`s position should be loked at too,as for the RFU lets get it right.
NOT just elect another bunch of self serving Blazers with there hooves in the trough.

Apparently this week we wil find out who stays and who goes in the England camp

Sounds just like X Factor

red_stag wrote:

Apparently this week we wil find out who stays and who goes in the England camp

Sounds just like X Factor

hah, what with Tindall and Frankie being thrown out for bad behaviour!

Wasn't sure if this was a geniune interest peice or just more gloating from Mafia... but hey ho.

One thing is for sure... Squeeky will come out of this unscathed and even more powerful... as he throws the managers & coaches he helped to appoint onto the sacrificial alter.

I hope Johnson stays as he is about the only person in the RFU that has any respect or credibility, but the RFU need to sort their sh1t out quickly.

Liked the comment from Mick Cleary (as one eyed & vitriolic a hack as you can get) about not acting decisively enough... well one mans decisive action is another mans knee jerk reaction. And knee jerks are rarely right.

Metal Tiger wrote:Wasn't sure if this was a geniune interest peice or just more gloating from Mafia... but hey ho.

One thing is for sure... Squeeky will come out of this unscathed and even more powerful... as he throws the managers & coaches he helped to appoint onto the sacrificial alter.

I hope Johnson stays as he is about the only person in the RFU that has any respect or credibility, but the RFU need to sort their sh1t out quickly.

Liked the comment from Mick Cleary (as one eyed & vitriolic a hack as you can get) about not acting decisively enough... well one mans decisive action is another mans knee jerk reaction. And knee jerks are rarely right.

Thats a bit unfair MT

No gloating...! This is about the most interesting piece of Rugby news in the papers.

My opinion on the matter is that I hope that England persist with Johnson, they have invested heavily in him as a manager and it would be very sad to see him cast aside as a kind of scape goat.

Englands pack have not really shown their historical bullying style since Wells entered the fray and his existence has been muted by fans who have been calling for his head for far too long.

Englands backline play and selection seems underpowered, un creative and impotent against a decent defence. Most England fans and others like myself were amazed at the persistent selection of players that lacked input. Smith had his chance and has to go too.

As to who replaces them?

England need a high calibre forwards and backs coach, possibly from outside the UK to breath a bit of life into the regime. The downside of that is that I dont think either the RFU or Johnson, should he chose to stay, would be so open minded.

MetalTiger,

Mick Cleary's hatred of Martin Johnson is such that he wanted England to fail in the World Cup.
It was because of his writing that I ended my subscription to The Rugby Paper - especially as half the time he could not get his facts right. (For example demanding cole be dropped because the scrum looked better when he was replaced - in a warm up - yet it was sheridan who had gone off)

"Englands pack have not really shown their historical bullying style since"

I think this has a lot to do with selection policy aswell though.

Traditionally England have had a monstrous pack....with the the back row full of powerhouses....mike teague, deano, dalaglio, skinner...etc etc...

The current style MJ seems to want to play is more athletic...

So at 6 we have had Croft...over say Robshaw...and i think that has had a detrement to the power in the pack.

Add in the poor coaching and it means an underpowered pack.

Sorry Mafia,

I tend to get suspicious when I see a Welshman posting articals about England. Some of your bretheren do have form in this area.

No trouble, we all get defensive, but personal comments are un-necesary when little justified.

I was a touch sensitive too having taken plenty of accusing abuse from the poster who used to call themselves Cyril in his many identities on V2.

I realy do hope that the RFU, do stick with Martin Johnson, or rather i do hope that Martin Johnson decides to stay incharge of England...I know he did not have any experience when he came into the job, but he has learnt alot since being in the job.

What ever the out come the RFU need to decide what job Martin Johnson does. Is he a Manager, or is he a head coach.

Now comes the decision on who he works with, coaches, backroom staff etc, etc. Does he/is he aloud to select his coaches/backroom staff.


Also i dont think it is fair that Martin Johnson take the rap for what happend in NZ. What about Rob Andrew? Hw was their, he is management, what role did he play in allowing ther England players a night on the town. Did he agree with it, or was he against it from the very start.

majesticimperialman wrote:
Also i dont think it is fair that Martin Johnson take the rap for what happend in NZ. What about Rob Andrew? Hw was their, he is management, what role did he play in allowing ther England players a night on the town. Did he agree with it, or was he against it from the very start.

If you dont know what Rob andrew was doing, why would you rather blame him than Martin Johnson...?

With regards to the World Cup and even the last few years that Johnson has taken charge, he is culpable for some of it, though the RFU must have hired him, without any qualifications other than being a great England Player and Captain, with a view to what he could do in the future...!

As Manager/Head Coach, still not sure which he really is, the lack of performance of the England team in the World cup, and not winning the Grandslam do fall at his feet much more than Rob Andrew who i think is currently the RFUs Director of Operations.

Please dont ask me what one of those does, I havent a clue

Ultimately discipline is down to the players themselves and the manager.

MJ definately was at fault for a lack of it....hopefully a lesson learned.

Funny how the Welsh boys decided themselves to have a dry world cup....very professional and sensible for such a young squad!

I also think MJ needs to learn from some of his selection disasters.....not to be so pig headed....ie Hape was not good enough yet MJ persisted with him....then dropped him during the WC...poor policy!!

Hopefully another lesson learned.....

I also think MJ needs to learn from some of his selection disasters.....not to be so pig headed....ie Hape was not good enough yet MJ persisted with him....then dropped him during the WC...poor policy!!

Hopefully another lesson learned.....

I totaly agree with you on that, sticking with players out of loyalty is not the best thing to do.

Players like Tindall, Shaw,Wilkinson, although these players between them might 90+ caps a pice but players can become predictable in their style of play....Playing Wilkinson, and Flood at the same time in the Quarter Final was a massive disaster.

Hopefully a lesson learned fo MJ.

From the Telegraph

What the future might hold for England's coaches...
Graham Rowntree
One of the few who enhanced reputation despite England’s poor World Cup showing. Should be offered a new deal by RFU.

Mike Ford
England had best defensive record at the World Cup before quarter-final defeat to France. Likely to stay.

Brian Smith
Has struggled to make a big impact on England’s attacking game and will be vulnerable.

John Wells
England’s forwards were well drilled but they lacked dynamism and a groundhog openside flanker.

Dave Alred
Having been with England since 1995, and particularly for Jonny Wilkinson, the kicking guru is thought by some to have run his course.