Gloucester (Cider) v Quins (Fine Wine)

Put this in the right section now!

Thought i'd start a thread for this weekends HC pool 6 match between the two English sides Glos and Quins.

Harlequins come in to this game off the back of 11 straight victories and a tough home win over a spirited Connacht team. At the moment they're flying high but the weaknesses, especially in the forwards are slowly being shown up, and an injury to key centre Lowe will cause us some real grief in the weeks to come.

Gloucester on the other hand have managed 4 wins and 4 losses in the prem including their first loss at home to Saracens in two years. Last weekend they also lost to European giants Toulouse in France in a spectacular game which but for a bit of luck they could have won.

Both teams are absolutely crammed with young English talent and what's even better they all seem to enjoy playing running rugby and looking for tries. Once the teams are up i'm going to do some match ups on young and old players to watch out for.

Match ups to look out for:
Trinder v Hopper
May v Brown
Sharples v Smith
Qera v Robshaw


Gloucester Rugby:
Jonny May; Charlie Sharples, Henry Trinder, Mike Tindall, Lesley Vainikolo; Freddie Burns, Rory Lawson; Nick Wood, Scott Lawson, Rupert Harden; Will James, Jim Hamilton; Peter Buxton (capt), Akapusi Qera, Alasdair Strokosch

Replacements:

Darren Dawidiuk, Dan Murphy, Dario Chistolini, Tom Savage, Luke Narraway, Dave Lewis, Tim Taylor, Tom Voyce


Quins team
1. Marler
2. Gray
3. Johnston
4. Vallejos
5. Robson
6. Fa'asavalu
7. Robshaw ©
8. Easter
9. Dickson
10. Evans
11. S. Smith
12. Turner Hall
13. Hopper
14. Stegmann
15. Brown

16. Brooker
17. Mayhew
18. Fairbrother
19. Matthews
20. Wallace
21. Care
22. Clegg
23. Casson

Points to note, Kohn will be out till the new year with a bicep injury so Valejos makes his first start for us. And a big shout out to ex-Pirate Matt Hopper coming in for the injured George Lowe (worried face).


Should be a good game and even before the teams are up i'm going to guess the result.
Heart say's Quins by 3
Head say's Glos by 5

Great title, yappy

Thought it summed the teams up well

I'm not sure I'd agree with the fine wine - a very fine tasting wine, but one that lacks depth!

Likewise, as long as our cider is Stowfords and not that muck they drink down in B***

Anyway, our team is up. 2 changes from Toulouse both can't be injuries as the replaced players are on the bench.
Jonny May; Charlie Sharples, Henry Trinder, Mike Tindall, Lesley Vainikolo; Freddie Burns, Rory Lawson; Nick Wood, Scott Lawson, Rupert Harden; Will James, Jim Hamilton; Peter Buxton (capt), Akapusi Qera, Alasdair Strokosch

Replacements:

Darren Dawidiuk, Dan Murphy, Dario Chistolini, Tom Savage, Luke Narraway, Dave Lewis, Tim Taylor, Tom Voyce

Tomorrow is forecast to be 13C and cloudy, so we should see the ball moved about a bit. C'mon Glaws, we must get our revenge!!!

On present form, you'd have to back Quins I reckon.

Time For Trumpton, I would normally welcome a first post - but not one like that!

Sarries have taken away the aura slightly from Castle Grim, but we will be desperate to start another run, added to that the humilation we suffered (again) at The Stoop recently I can see we will be extremely fired up for this. Quins are in a rich vein of form, so it will be a hell of a game but I am going to go out on a limb and say we'll beat Quins by more than 7 (but not much more!)

HongKongCherry wrote:Time For Trumpton, I would normally welcome a first post - but not one like that!

Sorry

Lets look at some last results between the two teams shall we?

17/9/11 Harlequins 42 - 6 Gloucester Rugby 10,526
26/3/11 Harlequins 53 - 15 Gloucester Rugby 14,282
23/10/10 Gloucester Rugby 33 - 26 Harlequins 11,919

Have posted up both teams now, big blow for us Lowe being out, JTH doesn't look comfortable leading the defense himself and now Glos have Big Les back.

Luckily they're playing Tindall at 12 so I can't see too much good ball getting past 10 unless Burns does it himself and old man Tins isn't likely to be stepping or troubling T-H.

As to the depth of Harlequins wine, well I think Glos are soon to find out just how full bodied we are. Repeatedly.

Gloucester remind of those flavoured ciders out there, well talked-up but little bite. Suitable for ladies.

4 non EQ players in the Quins 23.

Kingsholm is a bit of a fortress, but Quins have been playing well. Hmmmm... I'd say Gloucester by 3-5.

I am not a huge supporter of Quins, especially after all that scandal involving Deano, but they have bounced back superbly. They have a good predominently English squad and they have momentum. They will be hard to stop this year, I don't believe people who say they will run out of steam.

With Movember well under way it is now difficult to tell te difference between Gloucester men and women!

You do Mr Tindall a disservice, he set up both our tries against Toulouse. But more to the point Burns has a hell of a miss pass!!

Lowe will be a big loss as whilst Trinder wasn't fully fit back at The Stoop, Lowe definitely outplayed him - it would have been good to see 2 English prospects going head to head.

I would also like for once, for once for Evans to have a bad game against us! He ALWAYS scores against us

I would also expect him and Brown to test May more at full back - he has yet to be put under any real Garryowens.

Usually we're poor from about now till 6N's then we pick up form again. I'm under no illusions that we may well lose tomorrow, it's how the boys play in defeat (when it comes) and how they use that the next week to lift themselves up again that matters.

TFT - you're back in my good books now

I am one of those that does feel Quins will run out of steam, but purely because I have seen Glaws do it so many times in the past. 3 times we've been to the prem finals on the basis of an outstanding start to the season, but by the time the end comes we're out of form and everyone else is in form!

I've just read a really interesting stat - when Glaws had their 11 game winning streak last season, the team that ended it was no other than Quins! - Now, that really would be revenge!

HongKongCherry wrote:I've just read a really interesting stat - when Glaws had their 11 game winning streak last season, the team that ended it was no other than Quins! - Now, that really would be revenge!

Gloucester had an 11 game winning streak?

Yep, it culminated with the LV win and ended in style!! Even if we beat you tomorrow, I can't see us ended your run in that manner.

Was it 11 games?

I only ask as i'm sure that I read we were the first team to make 11 wins on the bounce in aaages

Yep, http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/gloucester/9434884.stm It was when everyone started talking about it that the wheels fell off...

Fair enough, there does seem to be something omminous about that 12th game...

HongKong - that run of 11 wins are against some pretty average oppo - (Rovigo,Agen, Leeds)
GLOUCESTER'S WINNING RUN
Gloucester 37-23 Exeter
Rovigo 7-55 Gloucester
Gloucester 60-7 Agen
Leeds 16-30 Gloucester
Gloucester 41-8 London Irish
Wasps 9-10 Gloucester
Gloucester 23-9 London Irish
Northampton 16-18 Gloucester
Gloucester 34-22 Bath
Gloucester 45-17 Dragons
Gloucester 34-7 Newcastle

Quins run -
Irish
Saints
Glouces
Worcester
Sale
Leceister
Irish
Sale
Exeter
Bath
Connaught

Actually, there isnt a lot of difference! Moot point

To use a cliche, you can only beat what is in front of you

Ha, that is very true Cherry. I'm looking forward to a good match on saturday but am not confident at all - I think the Quins run will come to an end rather soon as the last few performances 'especially against Connaught' havent been convincing!

That being said, Quins were the same against Exeter and Worcester - I suspect there is a mental thing going on there and the percieved weaker oponents. Hopefully Quins will be well up for this but the loss of Lowe and Kohn are huge. Danny Care to come on with 20mins and hopefully put a bit more zipp in the attack.

Hopefully Sam Smith can cope with Big Les.

I'm hoping Les can cope with Sam Smith! Les is an underated player, but he does lack pace now and he'll have to be right up on Smith to stop he shooting round him.

I think the game is going to be a cracker and what is great is both sides are full of young, English talent. Even though I think Glaws are going to win by more than 7 I still feel it's going to be a very tight game.

But for a moment of stupidity (I'm looking at you, Will James) and a manic lack of composure in the last 5, Glaws could easily be up in 2nd pushing Quins. They have the backs to hurt any team. I think Glaws will build on the encouraging performance against Toulouse and win a hard fought battle at the Holm. If it was at The Stoop, I'd back Quins. Simple as that.

Hong Kong Cherry, agree with you re Stowfords and the pxxx that a certain club have. But what about Thatchers? If you like the dry stuff in particular then try Old Rascal. About the game, I reckon Glaws by about 4.

Glaws have the edge on paper, methinks, but then so did Bath. Should be a close one, but if Quins come away with an LBP I'd not be too displeased.

As for the cider and wine analogy, I can't comment on Glaws but I'd say that if Quins are like a wine it would be a top class 2005 claret... approachable now, but still a touch raw. With careful handling, its best years are still to come.

Bump

Great start for Quins, a really well worked try puts Mike Brown over.

7-0 (7 min gone)

Hopper looks lively - never seen him before!

Can't believe Glos are behind! Fair play to Quins defence.

Yappy et al, I concede the far better side won today. Quins were far more clinical in attack and we never truly handled their attacking lines. Very well played and well done on 12 wins in a row!

Now... We were absolutely pathetic! We couldn't have caught a cold. I would love to see the stats and see our error count, as there is no way we can win a game with that many mistakes. To try and find the positives is a tough task, but our front 5 were definitely on top and Q played very well. Our youngsters will hopefully learn from this and remember less haste more speed.

I've not had a drink for the last 3 weeks, but I'm off right now to get drunk!

Commiserations Hongkong, a very odd performance from you boys but you have to hand it to the Quins defence, absolutely amazing intensity across the park and for the full 80, and we then stepped it up a gear for the yellow card.

Well done to Brown, MoM again, maybe a 6N's call up in stead of Armitage?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Hopper looks lively - never seen him before!

We signed him from Pirates in the summer. He struggled with Big Les in the first half but looked very sharp in attack. Congrats to him on scoring his first try for the club in his first start. Watching him running with the ball and JTH maturing leading the defence i'm less worried about Lowe's injury now.

Did not see the game as I was heading to Welford Road. I expected more from Gloucester but that result sets up Quins double header with Toulouse quite nicely.

LondonTiger wrote:Did not see the game as I was heading to Welford Road. I expected more from Gloucester but that result sets up Quins double header with Toulouse quite nicely.

Gloucester had a lot of possession, played well at times but could not break the Quins line. I think Glos visited the Quins 22 about twice as many times as Quins visited the Glos 22, but only one team was leaving with points.

You can see why Quins are top of the pile, they now have a winning formula and know how to break teams down. I think they could go really far in this competition and have a great chance to beat Toulouse. Looks like we'll concentrate on making the Jeff play-offs, Leicester at home next. Easy...

HongKongCherry wrote:Yappy et al, I concede the far better side won today. Quins were far more clinical in attack and we never truly handled their attacking lines. Very well played and well done on 12 wins in a row!

Now... We were absolutely pathetic! We couldn't have caught a cold. I would love to see the stats and see our error count, as there is no way we can win a game with that many mistakes. To try and find the positives is a tough task, but our front 5 were definitely on top and Q played very well. Our youngsters will hopefully learn from this and remember less haste more speed.

I've not had a drink for the last 3 weeks, but I'm off right now to get drunk!

Like I said, you'd have to back Quins

I was watching the game from the English clubs point of view and started to support Quins when they got on top (sorry Glos!). I was a bit perplexed when Quins didn't go for the bonus point try. I know they had a long way to go down the pitch, but they didn't have an awful lot to lose. I suppose it had been a tough match. I just can't help but think a more experienced European power like Munster/ Leinster/ Leicester or Tolouse would have been busting a gut to get it.

Possible a confidence thing. If Quins had carried on it was much more likely that Gloucester would have got a try rather than the Quins. This way they get the away win AND keep a clean sheet.

Cumbrian wrote:I was watching the game from the English clubs point of view and started to support Quins when they got on top (sorry Glos!). I was a bit perplexed when Quins didn't go for the bonus point try. I know they had a long way to go down the pitch, but they didn't have an awful lot to lose. I suppose it had been a tough match. I just can't help but think a more experienced European power like Munster/ Leinster/ Leicester or Tolouse would have been busting a gut to get it.

Fatigue and inexperience, they were most likely knackered after the 140+ tackles they'd just put in so the idea of working 90 odd metres up the pitch probably didn't appeal. Inexperience probably as they don't yet know just how useful that try bp may well be. And to be fair just how many teams do manage to get a try like that in extra time?

Or maybe we're just not too fussed about Europe other then not losing matches?

Not too fussed about Europe?

The try wasn't really on from where they were. The Glaws defence was too well organised and the risk of conceding points was higher.

Maybe they should have had a go anyway, but then maybe they just fancy their chances against Toulouse. Glaws showed them to be vulnerable, and Quins this season don't appear to fear anyone, whatever their squad and reputation, home or away.

Yeah, I get that they were tired and they were in a tough position, but it wouldn’t really have mattered if Gloucester had scored. They were on the last play of the game and well clear of Glos even getting the bonus point. Gloucester’s defence wasn't particularly great during the match either, so I don’t think it was impossible to imagine.

I just think that having not gained the bonus point at home against Connaught (I just can’t see Tolouse not getting it when they play Connaught at Stade Ernest-Wallon) they need to pick up an extra one somewhere else.

To be honest I’m nitpicking, it was a very good win for Quins and they have given themselves an excellent chance in the group.

Time For Trumpton wrote:Not too fussed about Europe?

As in they'll take each game as it comes, but there'll be no sleepless nights if we don't get out of our group. First priority for such a small squad is consolidating top 4 in the league. After that enything else is a bonus.

Oh, my head! I had a terrible hangover on Sunday morning following a nightmare that Glaws got thumped. Glad it was just a dream...

I've watched the game again and I am still of the opinion we were awful! We jsut made too many errors and didn't deserve to win. The frustrating thing is these were erros we shouldn't and normally don't make. The 1st try was poor defensive management as was the 3rd. Had Trinder scored it would have made it 14-18 with the conversation to come, but we then go and concede a further penalty straight after making it 9-21 - which just goes to show how many stupid errors we were making in important areas.

I would say we definitely aren't fussed about the HC!

That's the spirit HongKong! The HC's really only for girls anyway, you stick to the prem where the real men play and you'll be fine.

Btw do Gloucester not get taught how to deal with a rush defence? As when ever we rushed up on you and didn't just sit back and let you run you're training ground moves the players just seemed to go in to shock.

Once again thanks to Quins for the win, i'd have looked a plum with the title as it was had we been spanked!

yappysnap wrote:
Btw do Gloucester not get taught how to deal with a rush defence? As when ever we rushed up on you and didn't just sit back and let you run you're training ground moves the players just seemed to go in to shock.

That is a very valid point and I have seen a few journos say the same. My view on it is that Burns has been criticised by Redpath and others for kicking the ball away at the wrong times - he tried 2 chips in the Toulouse 22 for example. As such I feel he was reluctant to try a chip over the top where normally he is known to try that quite often.

Burns was pretty good I thought, you're biggest issues were the centres not drawing and passing when taking contact and Big Les going off, he looked frightening for the first 40.

You need a better scrum half too who can worry defences, at the moment teams can just drift from the ruck and track the ball pretty easily.

I don't think there was space to do the draw and pass, but a few deft kicks would have created space and stopped the rush. I totally agree on the scrum half front. Rory Lawson is a very good defensive scrum half, but his passing isn't good enough and he never, ever makes a break! Which makes defending against him very easy. I reaally want Dave Lewis to be given a lot more game time this season and I know we are looking for a top class SH for next season.