India vs West Indies 3rd Test Debate

First topic message reminder :

The 3rd and last test of the current test series between India and the West Indies is starting tomorrow. The match is played at Mumbai's wankhede stadium. It is the first match there since remodeling for the World Cup.
As far as the teams are concerned, India is sure to have at least one change. Yuvraj Singh, who played the first 2 matches, has been dropped, and Rohit Sharma brought in to the squad. Among Sharma, Virat Kohli, and Ajinkya Rahane, it is Kohli who is in with the best chance to make the XI. The other question for India is with regard to young pacer Varun Aaron. Would be interesting if they wan't to have a closer look at him before the Australia series. If they go this unconvensional path, that would mean a rest for Ishant Sharma.
For the West Indies, Ravi Rampaul has regained fitness, and it is likely that Kemar Roach may have to give way for him. At the eve of the match, there are concerns about Shivnarine Chanderpaul's fitness, although the WI camp seems to be hopeful about him playing. A final call be taken only tomorrow.
After being whitewashed by England, its India's chance to do the honors this time. Of course there is the ton of tons, particularly on his home ground to be considered.
Genrally, the Wankhede offers a decent cricket pitch, with a bit for everyone, the batter, the seamer, and the spinner. Weather conditions also look fine.
Will it be a clean sweep for India? Will the WI fight and put one up on the Indians?
Lets debate.

I'd like to see Windies win - not that I have anything against India but it's sad to see what cricket in Windies has come to. It would be fantastic to see revival in their fortunes.

Will India shut shop and play for the draw? They have already taken the series. No real point in playing for a draw when these 2 are out there. If absolutely needed, Ishant Sharma can be trusted to keep a few out, and Varun Aaron has smashed a few in Australia during the emerging player's tournament, and even at the first class level.
It was terrible to see them laying out for a draw in the West in the 3rd test in they had to score at 6 in the last 15 overs. But then at least they had aa series lead to protect.

49 of 70. They should certainly go for it? 4 for Kohli!.

They can deal in singles in the next 5 overs and then if they stay together can just go for it.

Kohli taking some rather unwanted chances and looking a touch hassled.
24 of 35. Double Nelson, as Ashwin plays a lofted shot!. !.

And now a direct hit, but Ashwin is safe!. 19 in 5 overs.

Kohli goes, one final twist?

It's not over!, Kohli gone!.

Think Aaron should be the man,, he's more of a shot maker rather than Ishant.

But in comes Ishant, and smashes the first ball he faces for 4!.

Sammy's captaincy has been dreadful today.

More than the runs, its the wickets!. What happned to Fidel Edwards?
Its not Castro, but there is pace. Ravi Rampaul.

My word!, this is building up nicely. Sharma on strike against Rampaul, and he just can't get him away. And there is an overthrow! of the last ball of the over, giving India 2 runs. Moreover, its Ashwin who's going to be on strike for the next over.

and Sammy gives away an overthrow off the last ball with a pointless shy, ensuring Ashwin will be on strike too, pathetic.

And at last, its Fidel 'Castro' with the ball!!!.

Ishant will have to do something here, otherwise pressure will get to him as well as Ashwin. Quick single taken, Ashwin back on strike, direct hit would have got him

long-on, to Ishant Sharam, with 7 needed. why?

Easy runout missed, and then both Sharma and Ashwin exchange singles. Now 1 boundary hit will do it.

Rampaul bowls Sharma, is there one final twist?

why on earth were the fast bowlers not bowling earlier?

Rampaul!!!!!. He knocks Ishant over!!!!.

3 of the last over, as Aaron gets 1 of the first ball to be on strike against Fidel surely?

and very nearly gets Aaron first ball, but an inside-edge to square-leg means he'll have the strike for the last over. 3 to win, two wickets.

3 of the last over, as Aaron gets 1 of the first ball to be on strike against Fidel surely?

This is great viewing!

three dots, some wild swings from Aaron

Aaron's trying to go for the big hit, and Ashwin watching helpless. And then there is the single, Samuels not up to the mark there. 2 of 2. Can Ashwin do it?

2 off 1

Fooooof!. India can't lose this one now.

242-9!. Its not a tie!, its a draw!.

and Ashwin can only get one! Ashwin seemed to hesitate for the second, but was always going to be stranded there. Good effort by whoever was fielding at long-on, and it ends as a draw. Great drama!

well it was a great finish, but Sammy needs to be asked some serious questions about his captaincy. Kept the spinners on too long, when Rampaul and Edwards at the end showed how dangerous they could be. Also WI should be embarrassed with their batting today.

India deserve a lot of credit for nearly managing to pull off the win. However the thinking at the end with Aaron and Ashwin seemed a little murky to me. Ashwin blocking the penultimate was an odd one...

Msp - you should have sent the Dodger in at number 10 to hit a six!

Cracking drama!

Nothing at all against India but pleased that the Windies at least didn't lose. As someone who remembers them vividly as perhaps the greatest team of all time, it saddens me to see where they are now.

No complaints, RAVICHANDRAN ASHWIN!!!. You've done terrific!. May be people would say he shouldn't have taken that single of the last ball of the previous over, may be they'd say he should have taken more of the strike when Ishant Sharma was in. But at the end of the day there is no point in all that. Had he gone reckless and got out, India may have ended up losing this one. The most important contribution to this epic match, well it came from Ashwin, and even though India didn't quite win this, this is Ashwin's test for sure.

interesting view on Ashwin's penultimate ball block. The thought seems to be that he was ensuring India couldn't lose the game. Hmm, maybe, but I'm not sure it was that great a move. Also Ashwin does seem very very slow on that last ball, doesn't sprint the first all that hard, and then turned very slowly for the second, but I don't think he would have made it back anyway.

Huge credit to Edwards for that final over, and again you have to wonder why the quicks weren't bowled more (Edwards only bowled seven overs all innings, whereas Samuels bowled 25!)

Mad for Chelsea wrote:well it was a great finish, but Sammy needs to be asked some serious questions about his captaincy. Kept the spinners on too long, when Rampaul and Edwards at the end showed how dangerous they could be. Also WI should be embarrassed with their batting today.

India deserve a lot of credit for nearly managing to pull off the win. However the thinking at the end with Aaron and Ashwin seemed a little murky to me. Ashwin blocking the penultimate was an odd one...

Sammy is mainly there in the side to captain, and that is one think he just can't do, besides of course batting!.

Even if Ashwin wanted to ensure India didn't lose, don't think anyone can complain. Don't think he deserves to be in the losing side after all that effort.
Bye Bye Harbhajan Singh. We've got a number 8 who can score runs, besides, you know, well, bowling!!!!.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:
However the thinking at the end with Aaron and Ashwin seemed a little murky to me. Ashwin blocking the penultimate was an odd one...

I could understand Ashwin blocking the penultimate ball. It was a pretty reasonable one. If he'd got out off it, India would have lost if the Dodger had been dismissed off the next and last ball (certainly not impossible). By playing out the penultimate ball, Ashwin guaranteed India couldn't lose. What was certainly nonsensical was Ashwin's running off the last ball - once the ball left his bat, he should have gone hell for leather to the other end and back ....

didn't bowl much today either

For me the thing he does best is he gets the team playing for him, you look at WI and they seem much more together than in the last WC say, and they seem to be enjoying their cricket again. Tactically I don't rate him, but maybe he'll improve with time.

On the Ashwin issue, I guess it's easy to criticise with hindsight, but I thought it a little strange. No complaints with him taking the single off Aaron's first ball, when you need four to win get everything you can IMO, and the result of Ashwin being on strike at the start of the last over would likely have been a single off the first ball anyway.

Ashwin gets MOM and MOS, well done.

I dunno guildford, it just seemed a bit defensive to me, and not something I could ever see the great Australian side of recent times doing. There's a much bigger difference between 2-0 and a 3-0 whitewash, than between 2-0 and 2-1.

Dhoni says he's disappointed with the pitch (wishes it didn't take until the fifth day for the pitch to start doing something), and says he's looking forward to a (well-deserved) break in the ODI series.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I dunno guildford, it just seemed a bit defensive to me, and not something I could ever see the great Australian side of recent times doing. There's a much bigger difference between 2-0 and a 3-0 whitewash, than between 2-0 and 2-1.

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Mad - accept your comment, at least to an extent. The playing of the penultimate ball was clearly defensive. I do though think there's an element and danger of that being judged in hindsight - not particularly by you but generally. If Ashwin had got out and then the Dodger had been dismissed next ball, some would have been highly critical of Ashwin for being so reckless at such a crucial time and even blamed him for India's defeat. Having played the penultimate ball the way he did, if Ashwin had then struck the winning runs off the last ball so many would now be saying he played it exactly right and timed things to perfection.

Cricket is always easier from the boundary edge or on the keyboard ....

msp83 wrote:
.... this is Ashwin's test for sure.

Msp - I'll give you that.

Now what are you going to give me for the Dodger's 20 wickets in the series?

Wasn't on here earlier but saw most of the day's play : what a terrific finish to what had threatened to go down as a run-sodden bore...sometimes a bit of bad batting can bring a game to life

The fairest result I think - neither side really deserved to lose and the crowd can hardly complain about anything after all that action.

I was also a bit critical of Sammy's tactics , but to be fair to him he was a bit handicapped by his own inability to bowl in this innings , and in any case defending that sort of total with his limited attack was always going to be tricky. Perhaps what seemed to be undue defensiveness in the middle session actually saved the game , so I am not going to claim I'd have done any better (even from the armchair )

Two exciting Tests in a week and England weren't even playing ...isn't cable TV wonderful?

im sure that the west indies went to india, expecting to lose the series in this fashion. However they can take many positives from the series, as in all 3 tests at some point, they had a chance to sniff victory, they just need to be more consistent, and get rid of the batting collaspes.

guildfordbat wrote:

msp83 wrote:
.... this is Ashwin's test for sure.

Msp - I'll give you that.

Now what are you going to give me for the Dodger's 20 wickets in the series?

After Harbhajan and Mishra got dropped Ashwin and Ojha were the available choices, Although I wasn't quite thrilled at Ojha's selection. I have to give it to him at the end of the series. He bowled better than he ever did in his test career. The responsibility that came with being the senior spinner did indeed have helped, and the county experience has been pretty valuable.
Ashwin seems to have more variation about his bowling, and of course he's handdy at 8 with the bat. So in Australia, I don't expect Ojha to make it to the playing 11 if India go for a 3 seamer and 1 spinner attack, at least right away.

ojha certainly put his hand up in this series. Ashwin has a hundred and a couple of 5 for's, and ojha has a couple of 6 fors

however its fletcher in charge and he likes his number 8 being able to bat (only reason giles played for as long as he did), ashwin will get the nod in the first test in australia.

Msp and CF - I accept that the wickets in Australia will not be so welcoming for the Indian spinners. I also agree that Ashwin's batting gets him in the side before the Dodger.

However, if I were Fletcher I wouldn't rush to ditch the Dodger.

The Dodger's a class act and in fine form as shown in this series and in the last month of the English County Championship season. Consequently, he must be confident too.

Even on a comparatively seamer friendly wicket, the quality of the Dodger might shine through more than that of an ordinary third seamer.

If Ojha is showing this kind of form I can't see him being ditched for the time being....

guildfordbat wrote:Msp and CF - I accept that the wickets in Australia will not be so welcoming for the Indian spinners. I also agree that Ashwin's batting gets him in the side before the Dodger.

However, if I were Fletcher I wouldn't rush to ditch the Dodger.

The Dodger's a class act and in fine form as shown in this series and in the last month of the English County Championship season. Consequently, he must be confident too.

Even on a comparatively seamer friendly wicket, the quality of the Dodger might shine through more than that of an ordinary third seamer.

guildford im a huge fan of Ojha, and he is in extremely good form, however ashwin is in better form with bat and ball. We all know Fletcher likes his no8 being able to bat, and ashwin gives that option, however Ojha would be class back up.

If Zaheer Khan manages to prove his fitness in the 2 upcoming Ranji matches, I think he'll walk back into the XI. Likewise, 2 of Ishant Sharma, Praveen Kumar and Umesh Yadav should get the nod going by their recent performance and the playing conditions. May be in Sydney, they can go for a 2 spinner attack with both Ashwin and Ojha in.