Where did your Players develop?

Select your full strength match day squad (injured players may be included), stating where each player learnt the game. If they were at your club at 17 - you can claim them. If they were there at 20 claim a joint credit.

Tigers:

Ayerza - Argentina
Chuter - Saracens
Cole - Tigers
Deacon - Tigers
Parling - Newcastle
Croft - Tigers
Salvi - Australia
Waldrom - NZ
Youngs - Tigers
Flood - Newcastle
Tuilagi - Samoa
Allen - Gloucester
Tuilagi - Tigers
Tait - Newcastle
Murphy - Ireland(School)/Tigers

Stankovich - NZ/Bristol?/Italy
Youngs - Tigers
Castro - Argentina/Italy
Skivington - Wasps
Crane - Leeds
Young - Newcastle
Staunton - Ireland
Agulla - Argentina

6 1/2 self developed (7 1/2 if we replace Staunton with Ford or Twelvetrees). not that great really. 4 former Falcons.

Sam Harrison seems to have overtaken Young in the pecking order and he is a Tigers graduate. We've not seen that many Tigers players burst through the academy in recent years, perhaps it's something we need to look at as there isn't a plethora in the England age grades despite the Tigers academy still having good results year on year.

Props: Marcus Horan (Munster), Wian du Preez (SA), Darragh Hurley(Munster), Stephen Archer (Munster), BJ Botha (SA), John Hayes (Munster), Peter Borlase (NZ)

Hookers: Denis Fogarty (Munster), Damien Varley (Munster), Michael Sherry (Munster), Jerry Flannery (Munster)

Second Rows: Paul O'Connell (Munster), Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster), Michael O'Driscoll (Munster), Ian Nagle (Munster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster)

Backrows: Niall Ronan (Leinster), Billy Holland (Munster), Tommy O'Donnell (Munster), Peter O'Mahony (Munster), Dave O'Callaghan (Munster), Denis Leamy (Munster), James Coughlan (Munster), David Wallace (Munster)

Scrumhalves: Tomas O'Leary (Munster), Conor Murray (Munster), Duncan Williams (Munster), Peter Stringer (Munster)

Flyhalves: Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Ian Keatley (Leinster)

Centres: Danny Barnes (Munster), Will Chambers (Oz), Tom Gleeson (Munster), Lifeimi Mafi (NZ)

Back Threes: Scott Deasy (Munster), Doug Howlett (Munster), Denis Hurley (Munster), Johne Murphy (Leinster), Simon Zebo (Munster), Keith Earls (Munster), Felix Jones (Leinster)

Thats 4 former Leinster, 3 NZ, 2 SA and 1 Australia.
32 Self Developed.

EDIT: Our starting team would have 2 South Africans, 2 NZ, 1 Oz, 1 Leinster and 9 self developed.

Dermody - NZ
Paice - Irish
Ion - Romania
Kennedy - Irish
Garvey - Irish
Danaher - Irish
Gibson - Irish
Hala'Ufia - Tonga

Hodgson - Bristol (I believe)
Bowden - NZ
Tagi - NZ/Samoa
Hape - NZ
Joseph - Irish
Ojo - Irish
Homer/Armitage - Irish

Buckland - Leicester (?)
Corbisiero - Irish
Rautenbach - SA
Casey - Ireland
Sinclair - Canada
Allinson - Wales
Shingler - Wales/Irish (still only 20)
Armitage/Homer - Irish

Obviously some questions over starting 23 - it seems harsh not getting Ansbro in there somewhere and I am sure there are questions over the pack and at 9, but yea, that is the jist.

Glaws

Wood - Glaws
Dawiduik - Pirates
Harden - Falcons
Brown - Bath/Bristol
Hamilton - Tigers
Buxton - Cheltenham
Hazell - Glaws
Narraway - Glaws
Lawson - Edinburgh
Burns - Glaws (I'll ignore his brief stint elsewhere!)
Simpson-Daniel - Glaws
Tindall - Bath
Trinder - Glaws
Sharples - Glaws
Morgan - Glaws

Lawson - Glasgow
Murphy - Cambridge Uni
Chistollini - Petrarca
James - Pontypool
Qera - Fiji/Birmingham & Solihull
Lewis - Glaws
Taylor - Tigers?
May - Glaws

Not too bad for us. 10 from the Academy, but Bucko should count really to make it 11! But it does go to show we can't produce forwards just very fast backs!

Richard Fussell (NG Dragons)
Tommy Bowe (Ulster)
Andrew Bishop (Ospreys)
Ashley Beck (Ospreys)
Shane Williams (Ospreys)
Dan Biggar (Ospreys)
Kahn Fotuali'i (Crusaders)
Duncan Jones (Ospreys)
Huw Bennett (Ospreys)
Adam Jones (Ospreys)
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys)
Ian Evans (Ospreys)
George Stowers (Samoa)
Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)
Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys)

Richard Hibbard (Ospreys)
Ryan Bevington (Ospreys)
Cai Griffiths (Ospreys)
Ryan Jones (Ospreys)
Joe Bearman (Cornish Pirates)
Rhys Webb (Ospreys)
Matthew Morgan (Ospreys)
T Isaacs (Ospreys)

SirBurger wrote:
Shingler - Wales/Irish (still only 20)

Steven Shingler has been at London irish for a couple of months. He has been with the Scarlets academy for a lot longer.

maestegmafia wrote:

SirBurger wrote:
Shingler - Wales/Irish (still only 20)

Steven Shingler has been at London irish for a couple of months. He has been with the Scarlets academy for a lot longer.

Ah but LI taught him how to tackle.

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

SirBurger wrote:
Shingler - Wales/Irish (still only 20)

Steven Shingler has been at London irish for a couple of months. He has been with the Scarlets academy for a lot longer.

Ah but LI taught him how to tackle.

Naa, thats pure Welsh tackling - just ask Warburton

Healy – Leinster
Strauss – Cheetahs
Ross – Munster/Quins
Cullen – Leinster
Toner – Leinster
O’Brien – Leinster
Jennings – Leinster
Heaslip – Leinster
Reddan – Munster/Wasps
Sexton – Leinster
Fiztgerald – Leinster
Darcy – Leinster
O’Driscoll – Leinster
Kearney – Leinster
Nacewa – Auckland Blues

That’s probably our first team at the moment.

11 Leinster
2 Munster via England
1 Kiwi
1 Saffer

Mickado wrote:Cullen – Leinster
Jennings – Leinster

We did perhaps act as finishing school for these two.

LondonTiger wrote:

Mickado wrote:Cullen – Leinster
Jennings – Leinster

We did perhaps act as finishing school for these two.

Ha, fair point. You took them after you had sacked Lansdowne road in '05. As if the beating wasn't bad enough.

Ha, fair point. You took them after you had sacked Lansdowne road in '05. As if the beating wasn't bad enough..

We returned them to you in better shape and just in time for your big European push as well. All worked out well for you Leinster boys in the end.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Ha, fair point. You took them after you had sacked Lansdowne road in '05. As if the beating wasn't bad enough..

We returned them to you in better shape and just in time for your big European push as well. All worked out well for you Leinster boys in the end.

They helped your lads pick up a premiership in their time too. it’s all good.

15 Arscott - Exeter/Plymouth
14 Camacho - Argentina
13 Sestaret - France/Plymouth
12 Shoemark - NZ
11 Jess - Pirates/?
10 Steenson - Ulster(Dungannon)/Rotherham/Pirates
9 Phibbs - Aus
1 Sturgess - Saints
2 Clark - Exeter
3 Tui - NZ
4 Hayes - Munster(Shannon)/Plymouth
5 Hanks - Exeter Uni/?
6 Tom Johnson - Coventry?
7 Scaysbrook - Bath
8 Baxter - Exeter

16 Simon Alcott - Worthing
17 Ben Moon - Exeter
18 Craig Mitchell - Ospreys
19 James Phillips - Bristol
20 Ben White - Aus
21 Haydn Thomas - Exeter Uni/Glaws?
22 Ignacio Mieres - Arg
23 Josh Tatupu - Aus(RL)

This is a bit tricky - quite a few of the Exe players, particularly those that came up from the Championship, have been late developers and/or journeymen (in the nicest possible way) before their arrival, so their youth rugby has been lost in the dim distant past. In some instances, I've included clubs that probably significantly developed players after the age of 20.

They helped your lads pick up a premiership in their time too. it’s all good..

Aye that's true. Just a shame they got in the way of us winning a HEC after they'd gone back to Leinster (good game though).

red_stag wrote:
Back Threes: Scott Deasy (Munster), Doug Howlett (Munster), Denis Hurley (Munster), Johne Murphy (Leinster), Simon Zebo (Munster), Keith Earls (Munster), Felix Jones (Leinster)

I'm thinking that maybe Howlett had pretty well developed as a player in NZ before he arrived at Munster

formerly known as Sam wrote:

They helped your lads pick up a premiership in their time too. it’s all good..

Aye that's true. Just a shame they got in the way of us winning a HEC after they'd gone back to Leinster (good game though).

I know man, I was there!

How’s Niall Morris getting on with you these days? Heard he’s picked up a try or two in the prem. Is he ready to come back and play international rugby yet?

red_stag wrote:Props: Marcus Horan (Munster), Wian du Preez (SA), Darragh Hurley(Munster), Stephen Archer (Munster), BJ Botha (SA), John Hayes (Munster), Peter Borlase (NZ)

Hookers: Denis Fogarty (Munster), Damien Varley (Munster), Michael Sherry (Munster), Jerry Flannery (Munster)

Second Rows: Paul O'Connell (Munster), Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster), Michael O'Driscoll (Munster), Ian Nagle (Munster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster)

Backrows: Niall Ronan (Leinster), Billy Holland (Munster), Tommy O'Donnell (Munster), Peter O'Mahony (Munster), Dave O'Callaghan (Munster), Denis Leamy (Munster), James Coughlan (Munster), David Wallace (Munster)

Scrumhalves: Tomas O'Leary (Munster), Conor Murray (Munster), Duncan Williams (Munster), Peter Stringer (Munster)

Flyhalves: Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Ian Keatley (Leinster)

Centres: Danny Barnes (Munster), Will Chambers (Oz), Tom Gleeson (Munster), Lifeimi Mafi (NZ)

Back Threes: Scott Deasy (Munster), Doug Howlett (Munster), Denis Hurley (Munster), Johne Murphy (Leinster), Simon Zebo (Munster), Keith Earls (Munster), Felix Jones (Leinster)

Thats 4 former Leinster, 3 NZ, 2 SA and 1 Australia.
32 Self Developed.

EDIT: Our starting team would have 2 South Africans, 2 NZ, 1 Oz, 1 Leinster and 9 self developed.

Stag, Johne Murphy is from Kildare but he never played for Leinster, he was snapped up by Leicester after he failed trials with us. Just like Geordan.

For Northampton

Tonga’uiha – NZ / Bedford
Waller – Saints
Mujarti – SA
Doran-Jones – London Welsh / Gloucester
Mercey - Saracens

Hartley – NZ Schools (until 14/16 depending on who you ask) / Saints
Heywood – Saints
Sharman - SA

Lawes – Saints
Day – Sale
Sorensoon – NZ / Newcastle
Manoa - US

Wood – Worcester
Dowson – Newcastle
Wilson – Ulster
Clark – Leeds
Nutley – Saints

Dickson – Newcastle
Roberts – Scarlets
Commins – SA / Saints

Lamb – Gloucester
Myler – Salford (RL) / Saints

Downey – Leinster
Clarke – Saints
May – Newcastle
Pisi - NZ

Ashton – Wigan (RL) / Saints
Diggin – Saints
Artemyev – Ireland schools / Russia
Foden – Sale
Tonks – Leicester / Saints
Armstrong - Saints

(Thanks Newcastle!)

How’s Niall Morris getting on with you these days? Heard he’s picked up a try or two in the prem. Is he ready to come back and play international rugby yet?

Not bad. He's the top scorer at the minute but not sure that will last long as he is a good finisher but doesn't force his way into the game enough. He's been on the wing quite a lot rather than his preferred full back but his tackling has already improved and he looked secure in the centres alongside Smith against Ulster (helped by the fact Smith made 13 tackles). He's still adapting but looking positive as he's already overtaken Hamilton in the pecking order and now needs to out perform one of Agulla, Alesana or Murphy on a regular basis. In a couple of years he'll no doubt go back to Leinster and be the solid strike running full back you want to replace Kearney.

I would have thought if he replaced anyone it would be Shane Horgan, but sure we'll see how it goes!

Thanks for the info, good to see he's making himself useful anyway!

Ulster

D'Arcy - Australia. Payne - New Zealand, Gaston - Ulster
Trimble - Ulster, Gilroy - Ulster, Cave - Ulster, Spence - Ulster, Wallace - Ulster, Whitten - Ulster, Danielli - England
Humphreys - Ulster, Jackson - Ulster, Marshall - Ulster, Pienaer - SA, Porter - Ulster
Ferris - Ulster, Henry - Ulster, Faloon - Ulster, McCormish - Ulster, Diack - SA, Wannenburg - SA
Muller - SA, Tuohy - England, Stevenson - Ulster, Barker - Ulster, McComb - Ulster
Best - Ulster, Kyriacou - England, Brady - Ulster
Court - Australia, Afoa - New Zealand, Black - England, McAllister -Ulster, Fitzpatrick - England, Macklin - Ulster, Cronin - Munster

Wales backs = Scarlets academy.
Wales forwards = Ospreys academy.
Odd few here and there from Dragons and Blues academies.

Not 100% accurate but it is certainly going that way. The players who aren't Regional prospects will fade out (Gethin, Ryan Jones, Adam Jones, Mike Phillips, basically the players over 24/25) and the Regional products will be tranistioned in over the next 4 years. It's already begun in case you didn't see Wales at the world cup.

HongKongCherry - i value your opinion, but your biased is outrageous!

Freddie Burns (brief stint elsewhere) - he learnt all his rugby here in our academy! Yes he got exposure at your club and has developed, but nothing to say that wouldn't have happened here. Only problem was that we had Butch, so he wouldn't have played, whilst you had someone tosh, can't remember who. Lamb?

Don't worry though, Burns will be back home soon enough! He still lives in Bath doesn't he, or has he moved out of Olly Barkley's flat?

Bathite wrote:HongKongCherry - i value your opinion, but your biased is outrageous!

Freddie Burns (brief stint elsewhere) - he learnt all his rugby here in our academy! Yes he got exposure at your club and has developed, but nothing to say that wouldn't have happened here. Only problem was that we had Butch, so he wouldn't have played, whilst you had someone tosh, can't remember who. Lamb?

Don't worry though, Burns will be back home soon enough! He still lives in Bath doesn't he, or has he moved out of Olly Barkley's flat?

It is a mixture of bias, tongue in cheek and truth. He didn't learn all his rugby with you, as after all he did leave your academy to join our academy. He signed a senior contract a year later. I can understand the rumours about him rejoining Bath due to his family being from the area, but surely if he were to leave us he would at least go to one of the many sides that can actually beat Glaws?

Don't worry though, Burns will be back home soon enough!

Why? He is first choice at Glaws with only Tim Taylor for competition. At Bath he'd be fighting for the 10 shirt with Donald. Donald is also on a three year contract so not going anytime soon.

No we don't need him cheers

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Don't worry though, Burns will be back home soon enough!

Why? He is first choice at Glaws with only Tim Taylor for competition. At Bath he'd be fighting for the 10 shirt with Donald. Donald is also on a three year contract so not going anytime soon.

And on a serious note from me, they need to focus their resources on their front row, as until they do Bath will not be a top team...

or capable of beating Glaws

yappy, you are just one of the many - but he is better than Clegg though

Donalds on a 2 year contract.

Burns left because you offered him twice the amount we could in our academy, because our facilities were poor and because you good offer first team starts. Can't blame the guy and was the best decision for him, although how hard is it to accept a salary doubling move?

Unfortunately, its not always about competition for places. Sometimes there is more to a move, so don't rule it out!

HKC - I nibbled, but I'm not taking the bait!

HKC - front row will take time to bed in, Beech looks like a good prospect, Palmer-Newport also. Problem is, we have loads of options, but no one puts their hand up, so really hard to get consistency and contunitiy.

Marler-Quins
Gray-Quins
Johnston-Samoa/Quins
Robson- Quins
Valejos- Arg/Quins
Robshaw-Quins
Wallace-Quins
Easter- Some one's pub team...Quins
Care-Leeds
Evans-NZ
Smith-Quins
JTH-Quins
Lowe-Quins
Stegmann-Quins
Brown-Quins

Only Johnston and Robson could be different to what's written but I can't be bothered to check. Otherwise that's 12 out of 15. And those 3 inports are pretty handy signings.

yappysnap wrote: Otherwise that's 12 out of 15. And those 3 inports are pretty handy signings.

I make it 5 non Quins developed players. But your 10 was what I was expecting.

Come on yappy you can't include Easter, Johnston or Valejos as Quins products. Johnston was already capped by the time he joined you, Easter played for Orrel for a number of years and Valejos came from Argentina then via one of the Italian sides.

Bathite, Burns joined us as an academy player and didn't sign full professional terms for a further year. He comes from a rather affluent family, so the £3.60 a week we were paying him for the 1st year would't have turned his head. Since he joined the senior squad his salary is a long way off being one of the highest in the squad - our trouble will be re-signing him as he will need decent money this time round.

An academy player, on academy contract, but on 20k instead of 10k. Find me one 17/18 year old kid, with rich parents or not, whose head isn't turned by that and I'll find you a tartan unicorn!

Could there be another thread on where your developed players have ended up? Has your academy produced quality for your team (as everyone is setting out on this thread) but had even produced a quality surplus.

How old was Marler when Quins signed him? He was at Haywards Heath before that.

Should his season (or was it more?) at Esher be credited, or are we ignoring DR's and loans?

I reckon Falcons have assisted in the development of one or two top sides. Top of my head for other teams:

1. Wilson
2. ?
3. Harden
4. Sorensen
5. Parling
6. Dowson
7. Woods
8. Gray

9. Dickson/Young
10. Flood
11.
12. May
13. Tait
14.
15.

Struggling in the back 3 a little. I don't want to do our current side as it depresses me.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I reckon Falcons have assisted in the development of one or two top sides. Top of my head for other teams:

1. Wilson
2. ?
3. Harden
4. Sorensen
5. Parling
6. Dowson
7. Woods
8. Gray

9. Dickson/Young
10. Flood
11.
12. May
13. Tait
14.
15.

Struggling in the back 3 a little. I don't want to do our current side as it depresses me.

3. Kieran Brookes (Leicester)
2. Ross Batty (Bath) - Bit iffy that one.
4. Peter Browne (Harlequins)
10. Rory Clegg (Harlequins)
14. Tim Visser (Edinburgh)
15. Rob Miller (Sale)

Probably a few more I'm forgetting.

It started bringing a tear to my eye whilst doing it tbh Cumbrian. I heard Brookes was been developed as a hooker at Tigers, not sure if that right tho

I know the feeling. It has been mentioned about Brookes running out at no.2 at Leicester I think, but they were in the middle of a propping crisis when he joined and now he's injured, so it's a bit difficult to know what the craic is with it. I'm sure he'll be happy sitting behind Cole and Castro instead of getting meanigful gametime though.

POOOLYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11


10.Jonny Wilkinson!!!!!!!
13.Jamie Noon!!!!!!!!!!

I always found that all of my team's players developed in the womb.

I thought Quins got Gray from Saints, where he was tired of playing second fiddle to Hartley?

I think it's fair to credit us with Easter - although he'd played a lot as an amateur beforehand, Quins were his first professional contract. He just started late compared to the next generation of pros.

And I don't think Munster can claim any credit for Ross. They'd written him off as a professional rugby player before Quins picked him up, turned him around and watched sadly as he went to Leinster.

Poorfour wrote:I thought Quins got Gray from Saints, where he was tired of playing second fiddle to Hartley?

I think it's fair to credit us with Easter - although he'd played a lot as an amateur beforehand, Quins were his first professional contract. He just started late compared to the next generation of pros.

And I don't think Munster can claim any credit for Ross. They'd written him off as a professional rugby player before Quins picked him up, turned him around and watched sadly as he went to Leinster.

That's fair enough, i mentioned that he was with Munster/Quins in my list but realistically he wasn't given any chance there. Dean Richards and co really made him into a quality scrummager.

I reckon Falcons have assisted in the development of one or two top sides. Top of my head for other teams:

Same for Tigers though not to the same extent;

1.Freshwater - Perpignan
2.Buckland - Irish
3.Dave Young - Edinburgh
4.Ryder - Glasgow
5.Hamilton - Gloucester
6.Moody - Bath
7.Skinner - Quins
8.Brett Deacon - Gloucester
9.Finlay Barnham - Nottingham (struggling on a 9)
10.Goode - Worcester
11.Varndell - Wasps
12.Vesty - Bath
13.Hipkiss - Bath
14.Andy Tuilagi - unattached (was at Sale)
15.Tonks - Saints

It has been mentioned about Brookes running out at no.2 at Leicester

Looks less likely at the moment as Tom Youngs has stepped up. More likely he will be taking over White's job of covering Castro and Cole during the AIs and 6N which should mean he'll get ten games a season plus LV Cup games. Maybe some off the bench work as cover for LH or TH depending on injuries as well.

To be fair Valejos got his first pro contract with us and had a huge amount of learning to do to become a pro player and now thanks to us an international.

Easter was another amateur who got his first pro contract from us and if it wasn't for us would never have been close to a pro player.

I would definately say Marler was made by Quins, yes he was loaned out but he was still around the academy and traiing with Quins coaches.

Did Johnston get caps before he was signed by Quins? Yes it turns out.

Quins spotted Easter well, but as a player he was developed in the lower levels, mainly Orrell.

I thought Valejos had a paid contract in Italy before joining you guys.

Whichever way you cut it though, the output from Quins academy in teh last couple of years has been fantastic.

To be fair Valejos got his first pro contract with us and had a huge amount of learning to do to become a pro player and now thanks to us an international.

Ayerza signed his first pro contract with Tigers but I wouldn't say we made him as a player. Developed him into a top class loosehead certainly but he spent a long time in Argentinian rugby before that. At what age did you sign Valejos?