B&I Lions want the coach for their preceding YEAR...!

According to the BBC this morning Andy Irvine wants a coach who can work on the campaign for a year in advance of the party leaving.

"We would be looking for the coach to be available effectively a year out.

If chosen from the four home unions, that would rule the Lions coach out of any involvement in a nation's 2012 November Tests or the 2013 Six Nations that follows." Andy Irvine

Irvine added: "I think it's far to say that if any of them [national coaches] are involved in summer tours we would regard that as acceptable, but that thereafter we would be hoping that he could concentrate entirely on the Lions."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/15926296.stm

I wonder if Nick Mallet will submit his CV?

It's a big ask for any of the leading contenders (Gatts, Kidney and Robinson) to sit out of their respective home nations teams for the preceeding year to be honest.

I think they will have to go for a coach outside of the Home unions.

Maybe give Graham Henry another shot at it.

Would be a bit surprised if Henry was given another shot. Mallett must be a front runner. He's indicated that he's looking for something from the summer on and doesnt have commitments or baggage so could do the job for a year whereas the home nations coaches should be ruled out.

GH isn't a bad shout although he was universally unpopular in 2001. He didn't get it as wrong as SCW but there will definitely be lingering doubts.

Has geech ruled himself out?

maestegmafia wrote:I think they will have to go for a coach outside of the Home unions.

Maybe give Graham Henry another shot at it.

Please lord no!!

The Lions need to find a new McGeechan.

Martin Johnson

I have to say I'm not a fan of Mallet so would not like him as coach. How about someone like Kirwan who is free at the moment?

Agree don't want Mallet.

red_stag wrote:Martin Johnson

At least it would be a good tour for drinking.

It's already decided why else would Gatland have a clause in his contract that he has a five month break that happens to coincide with the Lions tour ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/15926296.stm

Paul Turner and Dean Richards.

damngoodOvalball wrote:GH isn't a bad shout although he was universally unpopular in 2001. He didn't get it as wrong as SCW but there will definitely be lingering doubts.

Has geech ruled himself out?

As a Bath fan I can confirm that Sir Geech has lost the plot and shouldn't be anywhere near the B&I Lions ever again.

Cymroglan wrote:It's already decided why else would Gatland have a clause in his contract that he has a five month break that happens to coincide with the Lions tour ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/15926296.stm

Because he thought he may get it. The 5 month break is however a couple of months (say 7) shorter than Andy Irvine is asking for.

I wouldnt mind Mallet. Wouldnt want Henry. Kirwan may be a good shout.

Cymro, the clause in Gatlands contract is interesting, depends how serious the Lions are to have a coach for a year.

The problem with a home nations coach is the allegation of national bias.

It would be hard to get any currently contracted national coach to take a whole year out, that and the comments he made about "looking worldwide" suggests theres more contenders than Gatland.
If he wasnt looking to stick around for the next world cup Id think he was the obvious choice, but hes currently too close to his welsh squad that he would return too and I cant see Wales being happy with him taking out the whole year, even if he does have the 5 month release contract (which im very suprissed by but does show how desperate the WRU were to hold on to him).

Johnson would have been in with a shot if it hadnt been for the way hes been removed and the political upheaval and backstabbing surrounding the exagreatted problems within the England camp. He should have been in a position to stay with Englnad for this winter then given a chance to walk out with his reoputation inatct ( assuming tehy didnt have a disaterous 6 nations of course).

Guys like Henry, Mallet, White could come into the frame but it could depend a lot on them being out of work and bored. Surely Geech is past it, and he hasnt exactly been a success at Bath. Brian Ashton...too old and off the top level coaching for too long?

Why the hell do they need a coach for a year for anyway when the Lions only play for about 6 weeks, whats the coach going to do for all that time? just indulge in watching matches from all the home nations?

i dont think its neccessary tbh, i would'nt want Gatland dissprupting Wales' international fixtures by taking a year out.

because of this i can see the Lions having a foreign coach, Mallet and Henry would seem to be the front runners

Head Coach - McGeechan (he's got one more left - he has a decent record with the Lions too)

Forwards Coach - Gatland (5 months free for the tour)

Backs Coach - ???

It's a big ask for any of the leading contenders (Gatts, Kidney and Robinson) to sit out of their respective home nations teams for the preceeding year to be honest

Kidney I'm unsure about but Robinson should not be allowed to lead the Lions. He simply cannot organise a team that can get a back division moving. Gatland would be an interesting choice but I'd rather someone with no existing national team bias (that's works with a national team at the time).

Mallet is an option but he has just put himself forward for the England job. Kirwan would be an interesting selection but I wonder if they won't go left field and ask someone like Henry or White to have a go. What's Pat Howard doing these days?

Dont they tend to select B&I coaches (bar Henry, who had at least worked with a B&I team).

So, I cant see them selecting a head coach who hasnt coached in B&I somewhere.

I wonder if they will consider former coaches like EOS and Ruddock.

Sam if Pat Howard is the aussie one who played / coached at Leicester, he has just been appointed as High Performance Director for Australian Cricket.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I wonder if Nick Mallet will submit his CV?

It's a big ask for any of the leading contenders (Gatts, Kidney and Robinson) to sit out of their respective home nations teams for the preceeding year to be honest.

Kidney?

maestegmafia wrote:According to the BBC this morning Andy Irvine wants a coach who can work on the campaign for a year in advance of the party leaving.

"We would be looking for the coach to be available effectively a year out.

If chosen from the four home unions, that would rule the Lions coach out of any involvement in a nation's 2012 November Tests or the 2013 Six Nations that follows." Andy Irvine

Irvine added: "I think it's far to say that if any of them [national coaches] are involved in summer tours we would regard that as acceptable, but that thereafter we would be hoping that he could concentrate entirely on the Lions."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/15926296.stm

well i think Gatland is the heir apparent but this would rule him out,

Henry had his chance

just hope they don't ask Jonno

Gatland? Yer havin a giraffe.

The Lions are so phhoked management-wise. NO stand-out candidates.

But... Im going anyway.

I'd get Conor O' Shea involved, for what its worth.

I honestly think Jonno would be perfect for the job.

He won the last 6 nations so is arguably the best informed about who are the best players/combinations from the home unions, and with the analysis that must go on, he must also know all of the home unions strengths and weaknesses inside out.

He'd have worked/played with and against people like Gatland and Robinson of Scotland so would presumably get the inside scoop from the National managers themselves.

He has captained the Lions on two separate occasions so should know what it takes to make a trip tick.

If he can get some discipline going and pick on form as opposed to previous loyalties, I could see nobody better for the job.

He is also free at the moment.

He had no choice but to resign from the World Cup shambles and I don't think all of the World Cup issues were ones that were directly attributable to him. It would be a great way for him to salvage some of his reputation also.

I agree. Jonno in the management team would be invaluable. IF there are no moronic English players involved. Grown men on Tour only.

Question is, has his ego and self-belief been shattered? I really admire the guy. He was shafted from within and above and still held an air of dignity.

No better way to stick two fingers up at the media, the RFU and his detractors than winning a Lions Series downunder.

I agree, should be a tour for grown ups. If kids want a drinking tour, I'm sure we've all been on enough to give them some recommendations.

PerryGee wrote:No better way to stick two fingers up at the media, the RFU and his detractors than winning a Lions Series downunder.

I agree, should be a tour for grown ups. If kids want a drinking tour, I'm sure we've all been on enough to give them some recommendations.

PerryGee wrote:I honestly think Jonno would be perfect for the job.

He won the last 6 nations so is arguably the best informed about who are the best players/combinations from the home unions, and with the analysis that must go on, he must also know all of the home unions strengths and weaknesses inside out.

He'd have worked/played with and against people like Gatland and Robinson of Scotland so would presumably get the inside scoop from the National managers themselves.

He has captained the Lions on two separate occasions so should know what it takes to make a trip tick.

If he can get some discipline going and pick on form as opposed to previous loyalties, I could see nobody better for the job.

He is also free at the moment.

He had no choice but to resign from the World Cup shambles and I don't think all of the World Cup issues were ones that were directly attributable to him. It would be a great way for him to salvage some of his reputation also.

Seriously?

He is free cos he made a pigs ear of England's RWC, a tour down under.

And since his provenance as England skipper was his only qualification for getting the England job (stark raving bonkers on reflection) then forgive me for saying so but as coach of a local club i am better qualified to lead England than he was and he must not be allowed anywhere near the Lions before establishing himself as a proven club coach after which crack on.
If not the press would smell a corpse and the tour would turn to farce, dwarf tossing and maid baiting etc.

You seem to forget that he won the last six nations. Everyone here is touting Gatland's appointment due to a great World Cup performance, however, if you compare Gatland's and Jonno's 6 nations records, in the same time period,
Jonno has never come worse than 3rd and Gatland has never come better than 4th.

Good morning!
I have some olde fashioned ideas. But I feel the Lions coaches should come from the Home Nations. The players do, and I feel the rest of the organisation should too. This is not to show any disrespect to anyone, but B&I, to me, means B&I.

Except, of course, if we have a chance to grab Peter DeVilliers. What a coup.

PerryGee wrote:You seem to forget that he won the last six nations. Everyone here is touting Gatland's appointment due to a great World Cup performance, however, if you compare Gatland's and Jonno's 6 nations records, in the same time period,
Jonno has never come worse than 3rd and Gatland has never come better than 4th.

Hilarious, Jonno just quit before he was pushed and Gats got nailed on for 4 years. His team passed up a Grand Slam and then went 12000 miles to a RWC only to open a circus.

absolutely fecking hilarious

Precisely who would have pushed Jonno out?

Passed up a Grandslam? We were comprehensively beaten by Ireland. Wales only just passed up the Wooden Spoon.

I don't want to make this a Wales v England thread cos quite frankly they bore me.

Wales had a great world cup but you seem to forget the years of your own countrymen calling for Gatland's head.

If you look at World rankings, six nations results and Lions experience, Jonno is your man.

Good luck on Saturday

Look don't be obtuse you are talking complete rubbish.
Firstly this isn't wales v england until it suits you to turn it into that to detract from the fact you are so ill informed. you bang on about 6 nations performance which has little or no bearing on who gets picked as lions coach. This is about you talking tripe about Jonno's lions experience making him a good choice for Lions coach, you clealry haven't learned anything from the RFU's little 3 year experiemnt!! Winning a 6 Nations but not getting the GS is a hollow victory at best and a failure at worst. Jonno was a RESOUNDING failure as England coach record or not. He took his team to a RWC and presided over a meltdown yet he should be given another touring side?!!! With that record?!!! BS.
Jonno quit before he was pushed, the leaks would have constructively dismissed him by undermining him and his team. for the record england were a lot closer to a GS than Wales were to the spoon but they failed.

PerryGee wrote:Gatland has never come better than 4th.

He won the Grandslam as coach in 08

Wales have also won more matches than England in the Six nations since Gatland has been in charge.

But I personally wouldn't go for Gatland, and definitely not Johnson especially after all the England players just stated how awful they thought the English coaches were at the RWC, in Hindisght Marc Leivremont would statistically be a better coach than Johnson.

Conor O'Shea was a good call above... Though he lacks experience of coaching at International level. I am not sure why people are against Nick Mallet he was superb with the Boks. Other good coaches on the rise Fabien Galthié at Montpellier, Nigel Davies at the Scarlets, Michael Bradley at Edinburgh, or maybe Eddie Jones who i think is in Japan with Suntory Sungoliath.

Gatts, what's with the aggression? You're entitled to your opinion. I disagree. So what? Doesn't make me ill-informed, obtuse or talking rubbish.

You may want to calm down a little, you come across as a little petulant. Are you a scrum-half?

Gibson wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I wonder if Nick Mallet will submit his CV?

It's a big ask for any of the leading contenders (Gatts, Kidney and Robinson) to sit out of their respective home nations teams for the preceeding year to be honest.

Kidney?

Yes you can have Kidney provided you promise not to give him back.

Confirmation that Andy Robinson has a sabbatical clause in his contract: Robbo has designs on Lions job

Robbo would be a big mistake...we can do Aus in 2013, we need a coach with winning ways, that is not AR.

Gatts wrote:Robbo would be a big mistake...we can do Aus in 2013, we need a coach with winning ways, that is not AR.

Gatland has lost his last three tests, and had a worse win/loss ratio than kidney or jonno for 2011.
Define "winning ways"...

I think your hatred of jonno might just be clouding your mind a tad. Name me a Welshman who has achieved more than MJ in international rugby?

Jonno was a gamble as head coach of England. Looking at the RWC that gamble didn't pay off. However, MJ was let down badly by the players and more so by the RFU. England lost just 3 games in 2011, beat Oz home and away and won the 6n. Not a bad record when you look at it with both eyes open

Gatts wrote: Winning a 6 Nations but not getting the GS is a hollow victory at best and a failure at worst.

By that definition most home/5/6 nations have ended with everyone failing. Bit of a daft comeptition?

You come out with some rubbish at times Gatts, but to run down winning the 6Ns as a faliure is ridiculous unless youre going to say it makes Gatland an even bigger one during that period.

Fact is Johnson was widley supported a Lions candidte prior to the WC, certainly noone would have touched Gatland with a barge pole. I would agree hes not a realistic candidate now largely because of the political fallout and media manipulation/distorion that went along with that. Hand Johnson been left with a tennable job he could well be proving himslef a worthy coach this winter. Sure hes certainly made msitakes but youre blowing his record compared to other Home nations coaches compeltly out of proportion.

As it stands teh decision on whos is England manager could decide who the viable candidates for the Lions are. I really cant see it being any of the current incumbents, as it stands though Gatlands the only realistic one of them if they drop the one year ambition. From whats been said I think they are more likely to look for an international figure.

damn good ovalball Martin Johnson was pretty hopeless let's be honest.

It should be more painful for Wales that they lost to an England team twice led by the inept England management under Johnson.

Gatland is a better coach than MJ but isn't perfect.

Jonno wouldn't be the worst choice as Lions coach. He was treated very badly by the ERFU and the British media and of course his senior players. He will have learned a lot from that experience and with strong captain (someone like Paul O'Connell who won't take any Poopie and would be like-minded with Jonno), he should be fine.

Eddie O'Sullivan would make a fine, experienced backs coach and Graham Rowentree & Sean Edwards could make up a fairly strong backroom team. It might be an idea to bring ROG as the kicking coach instead of the golfer!

If they want him for a year then it (in theory) rules out any of the coaches currently coaching i.e. Robinson, Gatland and Kidney

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

As it stands teh decision on whos is England manager could decide who the viable candidates for the Lions are. I really cant see it being any of the current incumbents, as it stands though Gatlands the only realistic one of them if they drop the one year ambition. From whats been said I think they are more likely to look for an international figure.

I don't think the 'year out' will be a big obstacle to any of the Unions. The Lions Tour was worth £1m to each of the 4 Unions the last time, so its a gain for them as well. I'm sure they would be well compensated for the loss of their Head Coach and there is the opportunity to have a look at other coaches to see how they get on (that is unless you are like England who don't have a coach at the moment).

Sin é wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

As it stands teh decision on whos is England manager could decide who the viable candidates for the Lions are. I really cant see it being any of the current incumbents, as it stands though Gatlands the only realistic one of them if they drop the one year ambition. From whats been said I think they are more likely to look for an international figure.

I don't think the 'year out' will be a big obstacle to any of the Unions. The Lions Tour was worth £1m to each of the 4 Unions the last time, so its a gain for them as well. I'm sure they would be well compensated for the loss of their Head Coach and there is the opportunity to have a look at other coaches to see how they get on (that is unless you are like England who don't have a coach at the moment).

Makes you wonder why they bother appointing coaches for 4 year periods really doesnt it. Its not just a case of poaching form the lions anyway, also the lack of truely stand out candidates and in taking one who is still in a job theres always going to be issues with how close they are to certain players and selections.

Pretty hopeless but I think you'd agree that beating aus at home and away and winning the 6N is a record that a Wales coach would bite your hand off for. Look at Brian Ashton - took England to a RWC final but was forced out. Garland takes Wales to 4th place and gets feted like a god wherever he goes. It boils down to expectations I guess. 4th place is the best Wales have ever managed at a RWC so kudos I suppose.

Gatlands record with Wales is average really, a GS but otherwise standard 4th place finish in 6N. No success against 3N teams away. Anyway I am not advocating jonno as lions coach, I'm just countering the largely nonsensical stuff which dribbles through from Gatts.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

As it stands teh decision on whos is England manager could decide who the viable candidates for the Lions are. I really cant see it being any of the current incumbents, as it stands though Gatlands the only realistic one of them if they drop the one year ambition. From whats been said I think they are more likely to look for an international figure.

I don't think the 'year out' will be a big obstacle to any of the Unions. The Lions Tour was worth £1m to each of the 4 Unions the last time, so its a gain for them as well. I'm sure they would be well compensated for the loss of their Head Coach and there is the opportunity to have a look at other coaches to see how they get on (that is unless you are like England who don't have a coach at the moment).

Makes you wonder why they bother appointing coaches for 4 year periods really doesnt it. Its not just a case of poaching form the lions anyway, also the lack of truely stand out candidates and in taking one who is still in a job theres always going to be issues with how close they are to certain players and selections.

4 year period - the Unions & the coaches need some stability. Its not just the head coach either - its all the backroom staff. The Ireland forwards coach Gert Smal is on the shortlist for the SAffers head coach job now. Les Kiss is fairly sought after in Australia (particulary after Ireland defeating Australia in the world cup). Smal, Kiss & Kidney just signed 2 year extensions before the world cup. I would have no problem with either of those two looking after Ireland if Kidney was on a sabbatical for a year.

As for biased head coach selections - I don't really have an issue with that. The coaches will all want to win and they are going to select who they think will do a good job. Its when the likes of Sky Sports & British media tries to influence public opinion (Tom Croft, Vickery, Simon Shaw) that is far more annoying. The head coach needs to be able to stand up to that.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Gatts wrote: Winning a 6 Nations but not getting the GS is a hollow victory at best and a failure at worst.

By that definition most home/5/6 nations have ended with everyone failing. Bit of a daft comeptition?

You come out with some rubbish at times Gatts, but to run down winning the 6Ns as a faliure is ridiculous unless youre going to say it makes Gatland an even bigger one during that period.

Fact is Johnson was widley supported a Lions candidte prior to the WC, certainly noone would have touched Gatland with a barge pole. I would agree hes not a realistic candidate now largely because of the political fallout and media manipulation/distorion that went along with that. Hand Johnson been left with a tennable job he could well be proving himslef a worthy coach this winter. Sure hes certainly made msitakes but youre blowing his record compared to other Home nations coaches compeltly out of proportion.

As it stands teh decision on whos is England manager could decide who the viable candidates for the Lions are. I really cant see it being any of the current incumbents, as it stands though Gatlands the only realistic one of them if they drop the one year ambition. From whats been said I think they are more likely to look for an international figure.

To lose out on a slam is a hollow victory at best. Your opinions of mine are highly irrelevant.