Foreign influx concerns Wales and Dragons lock Luke Charteris

So mr. Charteris claims that people of leaving Wales to go to France because of influx of foreign players and the fact that some Welsh players aren't being offered contracts...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16149845.stm

What a load of Bo!!ox! they are leaving Wales because the French clubs are paying loads of cash

Certain players weren't offered contracts - that sounds a bit far fetched - or am I being a bit cynical?

Why can't these players be honest? They are going to France for the cash - admit it and stop treating us punters as fools.

Does anyone agree with Charteris? or are we fed up with them making excuses for plying their trade overseas and making loads of cash?

Think he's just using it as an excuse. Could the Scarlets/Dragons/Blues afford or even WANT players like byrne, hook and phillips? For the Blues, the answer is no on both accounts.

But it is funny, talking about how the regions want to spend their money on 'foreign' players...yet if he goes to France, he is one of those 'foreign' players he's talking about.

The only player who left that really should have been offered more to stay in wales was Craig Mitchell. He would have been an excellant addition for the Dragons up front.

Barring that, the others would have been too expensive/blocking academy-produced talent for any of the other regions who didnt really need them.

Is it an excuse though? Gethin Jenkins hasn't been offered a new contract, there was an article about it a few weeks ago. he says it's never happened before, he usually gets an extension before his contract runs out but that hasn't happened this year. Players needs to secure themselves long term, and if the Welsh regions aren't helping with that, then you can't blame them too much for looking elsewhere.

Comfort,

Cant agree more with you on the Mitchell topic. Said at the time I hoped we bid for him which not sure if we did or not but we obviosuly didn't get him.

Our front row have struggled for sometime and they did again on the weekend against Mitchell.

Still a bit surprised the Blues didn't try (or try harder not know) to get Hook in as they have struggled at 10 since Robinson left.

"To an extent you can understand why because the Welsh national boys are away so much of the time, whereas they get the other guys for the whole season."

BINGO!

Bedford, thats what I was thinking, theres a young welsh tighthead, who's obviously talented, playing for an english club against a welsh region after learning all of his rugby in Wales.

Im sure the Dragons would have made some effort to get him, but, its in situations like this that if we're not going to have central contracts (very tricky now all the regions are essentially privately owned businesses) that the WRU need to step in and help the region somehow.

The next few months could prove crucial for success in welsh rugby, because they need to really get to grips with how they're going to take player release/benefits, regions funding and attendance moving forward as at the moment its not a sustainable model, although its started to flower and produce young professional players.

I was always a backer of central contracts and we had two perfect opportunities when the game went Pro and when we swapped to Regions.

Not quite sure how they will work now or what horlicks will be made if they try.

To a degree Charteris is correct.

Why do the regions need so many foreigners?

The players they are bringing in are hardly any higher calibre than Welsh players available. They certainly don't draw crowds and haven't made an indelible mark on any of the regions.

Not strictly true, Collins and Holah both make a huge impression to the ospreys.

I agree flankertype, as has Rush in the Blues, Lyons and King in the Scarlets.

There is probably a lot going on behind the scenes with the parasitic leeches called agents trying to make as much commission as possible

MM, they don't draw crowds, that is obvious when I've been down the Liberty and there are "apparently" over 5000 people there but some of these journeymen do bring along a lot of experience that can be passed onto the young players coming through the ranks

flankertye wrote:Not strictly true, Collins and Holah both make a huge impression to the ospreys.

Huwball wrote:I agree flankertype, as has Rush in the Blues, Lyons and King in the Scarlets.

There is probably a lot going on behind the scenes with the parasitic leeches called agents trying to make as much commission as possible

MM, they don't draw crowds, that is obvious when I've been down the Liberty and there are "apparently" over 5000 people there but some of these journeymen do bring along a lot of experience that can be passed onto the young players coming through the ranks

Its all past tense though isnt it.

Yes players like Rush , Tiatia, Lyons, Holah, King, Molitika, Ben Blair, Tito and Collins were good players, they did bring in the crowds, they were an influence on young players they did change the fortunes. But those guys bar Rush and Molitika, who aren't half the quality they used to be, are gone.

Problem is the regions are bringing in rubbish quality NWQs and project players that are filling the places of Welsh players. I am sure you have seen the stick Kahn Fotuali gets for not being as good as Rhys Webb, Dan Parks is an awful player the Blues could have encouraged a welsh player, but went for a poor Scot instead, they kept Rush instead of going for Delve, George Stowers must be on a hansom wage at the Liberty which could have been used to encourage another two or three academy flankers. That new winger at the Scarlets, Viliame Iongi, another player who is not even first choice.

Charteris has a point. If the regions were bringing in quality NWQs like they were four or five years ago then it would be worth it, they would be helping the regions, passing on talent to young players, but the new NWQs are not high caliber, most dont even make the regions first teams.

Heres the list, tell me who you think is actually worth a place over a Welsh player:

TOMMY BOWE
KAHN FOTUALI'I
CHAUNCEY O'TOOLE
GEORGE STOWERS
NIKKI WALKER
SEAN LAMONT
DEACON MANU
SIONE TIMANI
VILIAME IONGI
Ben Blair
Tau Filise
Casey Laulala
Ma'ama Molitika
Dan Parks
Andries Pretorius
Mike Paterson
Xavier Rush
Paul Tito
Ryan Tyrrell
Joe Bedford
Tonderai Chavhanga
Andy Tuilagi

Most of those players are deadwood, some have been injured for over a year. I think there is about four players on that list, Tommy Bowe, Casey Laulala, Mike Paterson, Xavier Rush, that are worth keeping...! But even those players could leave and not cause massive problems, opening more doors to good young Welsh players.

Tonderai Chavhanga was a fair signing for the Dragons - big wing injury crisis needed to be covered

munkian wrote:Tonderai Chavhanga was a fair signing for the Dragons - big wing injury crisis needed to be covered

Can you not name any young wings in the Clubs supporting the Dragons or in Wales who could have covered...?

I think that is a poor excuse that the regions are using.

Tonderai is now injured too...

Chav is luckily back next game

We had Will Harries injured plus Mike Poole is out for a long time - brought up from the Premiership.

We are luck to have Brew back plus we have a few centres injured with one of them (Hughes) having to cover the wing.

Pewtner was also brought up through academies - pretty sure he has a knock too ?

We also have a prop and lock crisis with no other regions willing or able to help due to the Six Nations looming and we've scoured our own region as it is

munkian wrote:
We also have a prop and lock crisis with no other regions willing or able to help due to the Six Nations looming and we've scoured our own region as it is

What do you mean by that?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

munkian wrote:
We also have a prop and lock crisis with no other regions willing or able to help due to the Six Nations looming and we've scoured our own region as it is

What do you mean by that?

Dragons' lock crisis - Morgan ruled out for season

A disconsolate coach Darren Edwards said: “With Luke, Tom Willis and Ben Castle out for most of the rest of the season we have lost three of our most influential, highly-paid players. But what can you do? It’s rugby.

“We have asked the other regions for the loan of a tight head prop and lock for the rest of the season, but no-one would give it because there is an eight-week block with the Six Nations coming up. And I think we’ve exhausted our region, we’ve done very well there.

“Andrew Coombs had an operation last week, he was being groomed to step in at lock so now we’ll have to turn to Jevon Groves if Adam or Rob gets injured.”

Cheers.

I'm not surprised though. The regions aren't exactly blessed with locks and props.

Surely the idea is to pluck a youngster from the region? That's what the Scarlets did last year - they had to register 19 year old Simon Gardiner in the Heineken Cup squad as the first 3 tightheads were all injured.

We have, our frist choice props are both Injured. The Dragons can and have fielded a full Welsh qualified 15 before.

The Dragon's injury list is horrible at the moment and we werent exactly blessed to start with

It's a little Hypocritical for Charteris to say that when he's off to USAP. The Dragons are not forcing him out of position with a foreign import and they are trying to keep him. I can understand where he's coming from for some of the players who left but he is not in that category.

BTW The Dragons did offer Mitchell a contract but he turned it down due to lack of facilities at RP.

And they are THAT much better at Exeter ?

Impossible Standards wrote:It's a little Hypocritical for Charteris to say that when he's off to USAP. The Dragons are not forcing him out of position with a foreign import and they are trying to keep him. I can understand where he's coming from for some of the players who left but he is not in that category.

BTW The Dragons did offer Mitchell a contract but he turned it down due to lack of facilities at RP.

How do you know they are not forcing him out? Al they have to do is offer elss than what Perpignan have offerred and it's a no brainer for Charteris.

How do you know they are not forcing him out? Al they have to do is offer elss than what Perpignan have offerred and it's a no brainer for Charteris.

Because the Coach and board members have all stressed that they are trying everything they can to keep Charteris. It's obvious we won't compete financially with USAP thats why they have tried putting 'creative' packages together to convince these players to stay.

And he was rubbish and overlooked untill he had a few decent seasons at Dave Parade

Impossible Standards wrote:
Because the Coach and board members have all stressed that they are trying everything they can to keep Charteris without paying any more for him. It's obvious we won't compete financially with USAP thats why they have tried putting 'creative' packages together to convince these players to stay.

I've edited your statement slightly.

But you've pretty much nailed it on the head.

Honestly, you have to remember that most players careers are over by their mid 30's. Being able to significantly bump up the old retirement fund to provide for him & his family is a very tempting prospect.

The man wants money but he's being offered a 'creative package' instead?

Question: What is a 'creative package'? And can he buy anything with it?

SecretFly wrote:The man wants money but he's being offered a 'creative package' instead?

Question: What is a 'creative package'? And can he buy anything with it?

is a 'creative package' one that gives the illusion of being paid more, but you actually aren't?

The Dragons are not forcing Charteris out. Why would they? We would want to do everything within our power to keep an international. As huwball says, load of bollox. We all know it is untrue, so why even debate the point?

Charteris also knows it is untrue. I will tell you why he has come out with this. It is because the night of the Perpignan game, he was a special guest speaker in the Rodney Parade Buisiness & Executive Suite (where I work), he was asked whether he would leave the Dragons in the near future. He replied by stressing the importance of him staying in Wales, that he wanted to stay with Wales and with the Dragons as he had spent his entire career there. He spoke of dedication and emotional attatchment. Literally, the week after, rumours surface about a move to the South of France, most likely Perpignan.

Load of tosh. He is in it for the money as are all the older and "wiser" heads. If they value money, then good riddance. If they value Rugby, they can stay put and play rugby.

I wonder how long France can keep paying these high wages? My brother lives in France and he said times are hard there everything is very expensive.

As long as the tickets remain at 5 euros there is always incentive for fans to come on down. Their vast sponsors do not seem at all worried.