Haye's Best chance of beating Wlad

Now that this fight looks like it will actually happen

What do you think Hayes best chance of beating Wlad are? By that of course i mean what tactics should he employ?

You may not think he can win thats fine but obviously how he executes a gameplan will effect his chances greatly. personally i dont rate Booth, i dont think he has the pedigree as a trainer and from listening to his corner talk i am not impressed with him at all. Especially with Groves 'be stoic' Shut up Booth.

But for me in Hayes fight with Wlad he is going to have to utilize two things obviously, his speed advantage, and his power. If this fight goes on past 6 then i see Haye being slowly and methodically jab and crossed to death by Wlad rangy stamina killing pistons. So for me i think Haye MUST get this done fairly ealrly. Heres why

Haye slows done after about 7 rounds in most fights and i think if wlad takes him into later rounds his power will lesson as will Hayes speed and hell be dismantled.
Wlad hasnt fought a live opponenet mor ethan once or twice in years and no matter how much he trains for it will be initially taken by Hayes speed and the weight of his shots. therefore Haye must catch him early with something big whilst he is adjusting to Hayes talents. If he does then he can KO.

If Haye tries to feel him out for a few rounds he is ging to eat leather in the process and that will wear his stamina ,power and speed right down.

Haye KO inside 4 or Wlad KO anywhere from 8-12 there we have it

From me to you good day and as always thoughts

viva la 606 revolution

If he can solve how to avoid getting pummelled by his jab then Haye is halfway there. Wlad sets up everything behind the jab, especially the right hand.

Personally i think his best bet is to try and blast him out with a flurry of windmilling punches, i don't think Wlad will like it up 'im. Can't see Haye doing enough to take a points victory as Wlad is pretty athletic and active - even if it is with just the jab.

Wanna see Haye go tearing across the ring (possibly whilst screaming kamikaze-styley at the top of his voice like a girl for comedy value) and attempt to throw 300 punches in the round - all power shots.

In all seriousness i can envisage Haye simply circling to his right and loading up with that big big right hand over the top of the missed jab at every opportunity he gets... Or he can't get out of the way of the jab and walks straight into a big right he doesn't see coming.

Either way i've just schnizzled in my pants, biggest fight of the year... gonna be monumental

Hit him really, REALLY hard in the face.

But seriously though he's gonna have to unsettle Wlad early, not let him settle himself and keep him wary enough to make mistakes before (hopefully) blasting him out of there.

coxy0001 wrote:biggest fight of the year... gonna be monumental

You're risking the wrath saying that, you know...

Best chance of winning would be to avoid staring at Hayden Panettiere!

BALTIMORA wrote:Hit him really, REALLY hard in the face.

But seriously though he's gonna have to unsettle Wlad early, not let him settle himself and keep him wary enough to make mistakes before (hopefully) blasting him out of there.

coxy0001 wrote:biggest fight of the year... gonna be monumental

You're risking the wrath saying that, you know...

Fact is HBO will be showing it (am assuming it will be HBO due to their ties with GBP), it's one of the fights every boxing fan around the world has wanted to be seen made and it's going to do massive, massive numbers here on PPV and will be watched by gazillions round the world. Why? Because it's a massive fight AND most importantly they're heavyweights!!!!

In terms of re-igniting interest in the division, PPV numbers, importance for the sport, competitiveness etc this IS the biggest fight that can conceivably be made this year.

Wlad's achilles is that he doesn't like to throw shots if he doesn't think they'll land. He doesn't use the jab as a rangefinder, he likes to wait until he's close enough for it to land.

So Haye either needs to keep Wlad off balance and disrupt his timing thus trying to frustrate him and draw him into making a mistake OR (a more dangerous ploy IMO) feint and draw Wlad's lead in order to slip to the side and throw his own right hand.

Either way, this fight will be over by the middle rounds but I firmly believe Haye will emerge victorious. Can't see him sparking Wlad with one shot (although that would be nice) but I do believe Haye will catch Wlad cleanly and either drop him or wobble him BADLY and then catch him with a flurry of unanswered shots causing the ref to step in with Wlad sagging in his arms like a split sack of potatoes.

A well concentrated body attack from Haye would be a good tactic and something Wlad has not had to deal with in a while.

afternoon coxy and DAVE667 and all others, great seeing this bored going so well

I agree middle to late middle rounds and this is done, i just think Haye has to catch him at some point.would be suprised if wlad managed to avoid being hit by at least one or two clean haye punches and to be honest int he chin department how is Wlad any better than Audley? Of course in everything else wlad is solid asa rock, but haye is so fast for a heavyweight i feel unless he empoys the worst wait and see tactics he should get up at him and cause serious issues

sean

Is it afternoon already?! Jeez, struggling more than i thought i was!

My worry is Haye simply waits and waits for the opening rather than forcing one, if he starts dancing to Wlad's tune it's all over for him IMO... As before i think he has to throw caution to the wind and windmill with all guns blazing, if he can't get him out of there and blows up then so be it! If all else fails just nail him with a few cheap shots, that'll slow the big lump down. Maybe threaten to pummell Wlad's girlfriend with his love stick, that'd get the big guy to open up

I don't necessarily agree that Haye absolutely has to knock him out in the early-ish rounds to stand any chance, but I do think that he at least needs to come out all guns blazing and setting a hot pace in the early stages.

Wladimir is just about the perfect definition of a one-paced fighter. Granted, it's worked well against the opponents he's been facing over the last few years, but I genuinely feel that Haye is a cut above anything either Klitschko has faced in that period of time, and regardless of how unpopular Haye is with some people on here, it's hard to deny that he's a cut above the likes of Chagaev, Peter and Rahman when it comes to speed.

If he allows Klitschko to settle in to his usual 'jab, jab, jab, right cross' pattern early on, then it's going to be a long, long night for Haye. But if he can use his speed and lateral movement to get inside Wladimir's jab - which, depite it being impressive, he does leave sticking out for too long now and then - and land a few hard shots of his own, he's in with a great chance. We've seen before that Wladimir doesn't like continued pressure from a fighter who can get inside his reach, and it remains to be seen how he'd fare if someone managed this nowadays.

I think most will see this as a 60:40 fight in Wladimir's favour, but all along I've had the feeling that Haye is the man to exploit the holes in Wladimir's game and, more to the point, I just think it's a bad match up style-wise for the big man from Ukraine. Haye by TKO in the mid to late rounds.

Rushing Wlad might be worthwhile tactic; he doesn't deal with this well and hasn't had to for a while.

However, it will mean that if Wlad can withstand the onslaught; Haye might gas and leave himself vulnerable to being stopped.

It is a tough one to call becuase I suspect I rate Wlad a little higher than a lot on here. People point to the fact he only really throws jab followed by straight right and whilst I would not disagree with that my thing if he is so predictable how come nobody has come close to defeating him in some time.

This is down to one of two things, either his opposition is guff or he is damned effective at what he does. The truth is probably a combination of the two to be honest. Think in Haye he will be facing a guy who carries genuine power, belief and speed this is all pretty new to Wlad. Personally I think Wlad will look to be ultra cautious early, tie Haye up and lean on him and take his legs away before coming on late as Haye's questionable stamina and concentration start to wane.

Think for Haye as others have said he will look to slip the jab and move the side and land but will be fairly aggressive early as he knows he can't win a points decision and also knows that if Wlad gets into his rhythm he will be tough to shift. Too close to call for me, can see a scenario where Haye wins but would not like to call it yet.

Wlad will fight very conservatively early and will attempt to force the fight in the later rounds. He will jab and hold a lot; he is successful at this and will not change his style now.

It will be down to Haye to fight at a pace that the bigger man is not comfortable with and to edge him into making mistakes.

Too close to call for me, can see a scenario where Haye wins but would not like to call it yet.
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Well, when CAN we expect a decision from you, Rowley?

DAVE667 wrote:Too close to call for me, can see a scenario where Haye wins but would not like to call it yet.
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Well, when CAN we expect a decision from you, Rowley?

Give him a break Dave, old age means his decision making is probably a bit slower than it used to be back when he was predicting the winner of Wilde v Villa etc....

Thursday Dave.

Seanusarrilius wrote:Now that this fight looks like it will actually happen

What do you think Hayes best chance of beating Wlad are? By that of course i mean what tactics should he employ?

You may not think he can win thats fine but obviously how he executes a gameplan will effect his chances greatly. personally i dont rate Booth, i dont think he has the pedigree as a trainer and from listening to his corner talk i am not impressed with him at all. Especially with Groves 'be stoic' Shut up Booth.

But for me in Hayes fight with Wlad he is going to have to utilize two things obviously, his speed advantage, and his power. If this fight goes on past 6 then i see Haye being slowly and methodically jab and crossed to death by Wlad rangy stamina killing pistons. So for me i think Haye MUST get this done fairly ealrly. Heres why

Haye slows done after about 7 rounds in most fights and i think if wlad takes him into later rounds his power will lesson as will Hayes speed and hell be dismantled.
Wlad hasnt fought a live opponenet mor ethan once or twice in years and no matter how much he trains for it will be initially taken by Hayes speed and the weight of his shots. therefore Haye must catch him early with something big whilst he is adjusting to Hayes talents. If he does then he can KO.

If Haye tries to feel him out for a few rounds he is ging to eat leather in the process and that will wear his stamina ,power and speed right down.

Haye KO inside 4 or Wlad KO anywhere from 8-12 there we have it

From me to you good day and as always thoughts

viva la 606 revolution

I think Wlad has the advantage on power and accuracy. Therein lay the problem for Haye. I hope Haye wins, but cant see past another boring Wlad jab fest leading to a KO in the mid to latter rounds. Haye needs to take chances and I cant see him doing that. Both have chin issues though so anything can happen with 2 heavy hitters who have chin issues.

Which Thursday? This one, next one or the Thursday before the actual fight?

I know you Rowley, you're a sly old devil and will spin this one out for as long as possible


Give him a break Dave, old age means his decision making is probably a bit slower than it used to be back when he was predicting the winner of Wilde v Villa etc....
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I gather Jeff's still just getting over the shock news that Rocky Marciano has retired.

DAVE667 wrote:Which Thursday? This one, next one or the Thursday before the actual fight?

I know you Rowley, you're a sly old devil and will spin this one out for as long as possible


Give him a break Dave, old age means his decision making is probably a bit slower than it used to be back when he was predicting the winner of Wilde v Villa etc....
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I gather Jeff's still just getting over the shock news that Rocky Marciano has retired.

Who the hell is David Haye ?? Have I missed something.

If Haye can make Wlad fight, he has a good chance. He has not had to fight at a quick pace for years, maybe never.

Needs a tough, neutral ref who wont let him get away with too much holding.

Needs a tough, neutral ref who wont let him get away with too much holding.


Given the concessions Haye's already made to get this fight underway, something tells me the ref will have been wined and dined on Bratwurst and Worsteiner Lager with lashing of cabbage soup and Vodka just to seal the deal (we do love our cultural stereotypes don't we?)

Jimmy, David Haye is a fighter we see a lot of on this new fangled colour tv contraption (passing fad if you ask me)

Jimmy Stuart wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Which Thursday? This one, next one or the Thursday before the actual fight?

I know you Rowley, you're a sly old devil and will spin this one out for as long as possible


Give him a break Dave, old age means his decision making is probably a bit slower than it used to be back when he was predicting the winner of Wilde v Villa etc....
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I gather Jeff's still just getting over the shock news that Rocky Marciano has retired.

Who the hell is David Haye ?? Have I missed something.

Your answers are all found here:

http://www.david-hay.co.uk/

Haye needs to come out fast moving to his right as fast as he can and looking to drop a leaping right over Wlad's left. Then follow up with a merciless flurry. Either that or just blitz him as soon as the bell rings.

Wlad is beatable with that weak chin and his tendency to panic when hurt but If Haye stands still, tries to slip Wlad's lead or pace himself, I think he has no chance.

I'll pick Wlad by stoppage by round 8 if he's cautious and round 4 if Haye makes a nuisance of himself.

samevans1 wrote:If Haye can make Wlad fight, he has a good chance. He has not had to fight at a quick pace for years, maybe never.

Needs a tough, neutral ref who wont let him get away with too much holding.

My only worry is and me Windy spoke about this, is Haye's inability to slip or parry the jab to counter productively. He leans away then tried jumps in, I'm not sure this will work with a man of Wlad's size and talent. I think Haye has all the tools I like his size, I like his speed and he genuinely believes he has Wlad's number.

If Haye gets out of the traps very early and hits Wlad anywhere on his body with authority, I believe it could take the fight out of Wlad's hands, he is circumspect at the best of times having a young fast tiger in front of him might just put him into somesort of meltdown, I'm hoping anyhow.Its an almighty tough one to call, 18 months ago I would've tipped Wlad comfortably, the closer it gets I'm starting to lean towards Haye.

I certainly won't be putting much down on this, not a fight to gamble on when you've got two questionable chins...

That and i can see myself schnizzling so many times and getting over excited i'll just do what i did in the Hatton v FMJ fight and spluff a load of money on a fighter i desperately wanted to win/convinced myself he would win and was badly out of pocket!

It'll be Haye by TKO (exact method, not KO) for me which is 11/4

Perhaps Haye's greatest advantage is that, in the eyes of many, he still has some considerable way to go to prove he's genuinely worthy of being considered the World's best HW. For years, most have (like it or not) considered Wlad to be the top dog and there's always the possibility that he's begun to rest on his laurels somewhat.

I'm not suggesting he's skimped on his training over the years but I believe the quality of opposition he's faced has meant he's been able to concentrate on what he's always done in the ring rather than have to come up with a gameplan to counter what his opponent might do.

Essentially, Wlad's downfall might be his lack of a Plan B. He's never needed one thus far and we'd have to ask, will Steward even consider the need for one against Haye or simply rely on Wlad's perceived superiority?

what a fight this could be.
we all know it could turn out to be nervy affair with both of them too scared of each others power. it took haye 3 rounds to unload on harrison.

but if they both settle into a stride, we're in for a humdinger.

not sure why i said humdinger, never used that before in my life...

Haye needs to force Wlad to fight. He has never fought in the trenches in his entire career and might well be total out of his element if forced to do so.

DAVE667 wrote:Perhaps Haye's greatest advantage is that, in the eyes of many, he still has some considerable way to go to prove he's genuinely worthy of being considered the World's best HW. For years, most have (like it or not) considered Wlad to be the top dog and there's always the possibility that he's begun to rest on his laurels somewhat.

I'm not suggesting he's skimped on his training over the years but I believe the quality of opposition he's faced has meant he's been able to concentrate on what he's always done in the ring rather than have to come up with a gameplan to counter what his opponent might do.

Essentially, Wlad's downfall might be his lack of a Plan B. He's never needed one thus far and we'd have to ask, will Steward even consider the need for one against Haye or simply rely on Wlad's perceived superiority?

I think Wlad should've had a loosener Dave, I reckon this could work in Haye's favour. Very few can get away with being inactive for a long time, then facing your possibly most dangerous task. I believe he would've only fought once in around 2 years once he steps through the ropes to face Haye.

DAVE667 wrote:
I gather Jeff's still just getting over the shock news that Rocky Marciano has retired.

Wait 'til he finds out he's dead.

In fairness Jimmy, Haye's fight with Audley can hardly be considered ideal preparation unless you count it as Haye practicing for a KO.

I just wonder who Wlad's going to find for sparring who can mimic Haye's style and yet still have the same power. It's alright sparring with smaller guys who can replicate Haye's speed but I think Wlad's going to need to get used to being hit with quick, hard shots from a constantly moving opponent otherwise come fight night he's in for one helluva shock.

Could we see Wlad in an alleyway chasing a chicken whilst Manny Steward hurls abuse at him?

BALTIMORA wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:
I gather Jeff's still just getting over the shock news that Rocky Marciano has retired.

Wait 'til he finds out he's dead.

Chances are none of us will be around when that news finally sinks in for Jeff

DAVE667 wrote:In fairness Jimmy, Haye's fight with Audley can hardly be considered ideal preparation unless you count it as Haye practicing for a KO.

Ha good point fair enough Dave.

DAVE667 wrote:In fairness Jimmy, Haye's fight with Audley can hardly be considered ideal preparation unless you count it as Haye practicing for a KO.

I just wonder who Wlad's going to find for sparring who can mimic Haye's style and yet still have the same power. It's alright sparring with smaller guys who can replicate Haye's speed but I think Wlad's going to need to get used to being hit with quick, hard shots from a constantly moving opponent otherwise come fight night he's in for one helluva shock.

Could we see Wlad in an alleyway chasing a chicken whilst Manny Steward hurls abuse at him?

I think they'll be building hurting bombs personally, or running away from KGB agents who have been assigned to Wlad to make sure he trains really really hard like a good boy.

I'm just hoping Haye comes out with a t-shirt depicting him caving in a naked Hayden Panitierre.... Even if fake her with her naughts and bum out will suffice for me

coxy0001 wrote:I'm just hoping Haye comes out with a t-shirt depicting him caving in a naked Hayden Panitierre.... Even if fake her with her naughts and bum out will suffice for me

Overcompensation,

n
(Psychology) Psychol an attempt to make up for a character trait by overexaggerating its opposite

I'm just hoping Haye comes out with a t-shirt depicting him caving in a naked Hayden Panitierre.... Even if fake her with her naughts and bum out will suffice for me
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Didn't understand a lot of that Coxy, I guess you were trying to type whilst fantasising!

Whilst I hope Haye doesn't go down the "I'd love to smash your wife's back doors in" route, I wonder if he'll surround himself with Hayden lookalikes thus subtlely trying to wind up Wlad...although I'm not 100% sure Haye does "subtle"

I think Haye has a couple of real advantages on his side from a tactical sense in this fight.

Firstly, he knows exactly what Wlads tactic will be. Wlad will approach this fight the exact same wa he does every fight. There will be no surprises and Haye will know exactly what to prepare for and what hes up against.

On the other hand, Haye is right when he says Wlad has never really fought anyone like him. Wlad wont havethe luxury of knowing what Hayes approach will be and will be kept guessing in this regard.

For Hayes sake, I hope he approaches this with the view that he has to win by KO and he gears his plan to this end. I suspect he will because to try and outbox Wlad to a decision would be too difficult. Both Haye and Wlad cant fight on the inside so I expect Hayes plan will be to keep distance, use alot of lateral movement and keep out of range of the jab. Wlad will be looking to to establish range with the jab and set up a rythm while Haye probes nd looks for openings.

I suspect that this fight will have a similar pattern to the Valuev fight except where Haye was looking to nick rounds gainst Valuev with single digit punches, he will instead be looking for opening to try to land real power shots. Wlad is good at dictating range and controlling tempo but I suspect he will find Haye the most elusive fighter he has faced, while Haye will find Wlad equally the hardest fighter to get to.

Ultimtimately I see this being a largely cagey affair with occasional moments of explosiveness. Haye will be looking for a KO, Wlad will be looking to avoid it.

Wlads weakness has been against guys who can pressure him but I dont see Haye as being any good on the inside or an effective pressure fighter. He is more of a sniper that likes to set up his opponent with traps and openings rather than force the issue. He needs to take risks against Wlad to get past the jab as I think Wlad is too good at range fighting and too cautious to leave himself open for Haye so Haye will need to be willing to try force Wlad to make mistakes with the odd aggressive moves rather than hope Wlad leaves an opening.