No Welsh teams in the 1/4 finala again ?

In the last couple of weeks a numbers of posters from Wales have been posting gloating messages harking on how well the regsions were doing and how no English teams will be maing he 1/4 finals. How things have changed! The Ospreys are all but out, the Scarlets are in big trouble and unless they tturn Musnter over today in Thomond which is about as likely as Wales winning a rugby world cup then they are gonners to. Cardiff still hae a chance, although I fancy London Irish to oick up the bonus point win today making he group wide open. and I still fancy London Irish to qualify as I think they will win their remaining games. So, with Wales haing LOST their last 3 internationals and only 8th in the world rankings, the regions struggling to qualify to make the 1/4 finals yet again and the terrible low crowds (only 7000 for the most important game of the season for the ospreys to date) is Welsh rugby dying a slow but painful death?

Now this is an interesting post. Lets see, designed to stimulate some good debate, or just fuelling your prejudice.

Pathetic contribution.

Both Blues and Edinburgh have a great chance of qualifying as Racing won't care and Irish could just as easily lose their last two.

Cardiff must qualify, they are in what is by far the weakest group. You would expect all of the Welsh teams to win that group.

Scarlets missed out when Munster were there for the taking last week, but the Ospreys were well beaten by a superior Saracens side. Can't help thinking that loosing so many players to the Wales Squad for the nothing game against Oz will cost the Regions!

There is not a chance that Dragons would top this group if they played it until next Christmas !

606 - home of the ill informed rant

I think Blues still have a chance, but that's probably it.

It just goes to show that you don't get carried away after the first couple of games. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

I don't think anyone predicted a Welsh team taking hone Silverware. Lot of young players bring developed, its a marathon , not a Sprint

Ok munkian. You let us know when your teams are ready to contest the tournament and we'll re-set the clock

My teams ? I support one team and they'll be lucky to get out the Aviva, how's your team doing ?

wrfc1980 wrote:although I fancy London Irish to oick up the bonus point win today making he group wide open.

So... London Irish 19 - 25 Racing Metro the final score

Both teams out of contention

munkian wrote:My teams ? I support one team and they'll be lucky to get out the Aviva

Amlin?

Yes you hate Wales we know

Ha , that's the one. You going to answer my question ?

There are some seriously tedious posters on here these days. It's getting far too like the old bbc nonsense. Banter is one thing, baiting and mockery is another thing entirely

Given his name I assume this guy is about 31, crazy isn't it. A 31 year old coming out with this childish crap.

Seagultaf wrote:Cardiff must qualify, they are in what is by far the weakest group. You would expect all of the Welsh teams to win that group.

Scarlets missed out when Munster were there for the taking last week, but the Ospreys were well beaten by a superior Saracens side. Can't help thinking that loosing so many players to the Wales Squad for the nothing game against Oz will cost the Regions!

Another well informed post. Edinburgh outclassed Cardiff last night. I dare say all the Welsh regions would struggle in pool 2

And Cardiff outclassed Edinburgh the last time , there are no easy groups

munkian wrote:My teams ? I support one team and they'll be lucky to get out the Aviva, how's your team doing ?

SourCream
I'll ask the same question as munkian................ Who is you team?, and how are they doing?

The original poster is obviously a WUM of the lowest order, and altho we beat Cardiff Blues last night we shouldnt have let them get near a LBP.

Seagulltaff I will dispute this season that any Welsh region will beat Edinburgh beat the long haul

to try and turn this into a sensible debate instead of the wrfcs boringly pathetic attempt to wind people up.

Some Welsh posters probably got carried away after last weekend but I don't think many people expected the Scarlets to get out of their group before the start of the comp, so a win over Saints away was a very welcome plus to this season. The Blues should be looking to win their group, but the loss to Edinburgh was poor in the Blues POV (although Edinburgh are a very good side) but they can still qualify, although it will be a lot harder than they expected.
Ospreys are rebuilding but would have expected to finish 2nd I think, they lost to a good Saracens team and although a struggle to finish 2nd, to be fair it was a tough group - still poorer than expected and will need to improve next year IMO.

I should clarify the above - by the sounds of it Edinburgh deserved to win last night and I'm not saying that they didn't or that they are a poor side - I'm just saying that the Blues would probably have targeted; at the start of the season; those two games to get 2 wins (based on history between the 2 sides and form last season)

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:Cardiff must qualify, they are in what is by far the weakest group. You would expect all of the Welsh teams to win that group.

Scarlets missed out when Munster were there for the taking last week, but the Ospreys were well beaten by a superior Saracens side. Can't help thinking that loosing so many players to the Wales Squad for the nothing game against Oz will cost the Regions!

Another well informed post. Edinburgh outclassed Cardiff last night. I dare say all the Welsh regions would struggle in pool 2

Cardiff lost to Edinburgh because the played very poorly, even their own supporters say so. I still think Cardiff should win the group.

The teams to avoid in the Heineken are: Toulouse, Clemont, Leinster, Munster, Leicester, Northampton, Saracens. These are the sides with European pedigree. And the absence of these teams is what makes Cardiff's group the weakest, it's just the luck of the draw. On current form both Ospreys and Scarlets are stronger sides than Cardiff, so I still feel they would have won this group if they had had Cardiff's draw.

The Welsh regions look no less likely to qualify than the Scots or English.

The bottom line is you have to win at least 4 games to qualify, anything less and your out.

The Ospreys had the easiest group because Biarritz have been a shambles this season, they have only won 2 games in their domestic league and are falling behind at the bottom of the table facing relegation. They also had Treviso in their group, while they aren't push overs, you'd still expect them to rack up a reasonable win over there. It's been a poor European season from the Ospreys to be honest.

I still expect the Blues to qualify, they don;t need to beat London Irish away, they need to beat Racing Metro at home and the French won't put much effort into it in their last game now they have already been eliminated.

If we are drawing comparisons between Welsh and English clubs in Europe, then in the 3 pools we have Welsh and English teams head to head, you'll find Welsh teams are ABOVE their English counterparts in 2 of the pools.

England should do better because they have 7 representatives in the Cup, while Wales has only 3. Out of the English teams only Saracens and possibly Leicester would qualify as things stand.

Compare this with Ireland who have, (as usual) their 3 top Provinces leading their respective pools.

"England should do better because they have 7 representatives in the Cup, while Wales has only 3. Out of the English teams only Saracens and possibly Leicester would qualify as things stand."

English clubs have done better & they have consistently won the cup & got to the final compared to the Welsh Regions who have consistently under performed in the HC .

Realistically the Blues may get into the quarters this year but they don't have a team good enough to challenge in the latter stages IMO.

Toulouse & Leinster look head & shoulders above the rest tbh. But the Tigers & Sarries if they qualify have the squads to beat them playing at their best.

Nice call on the LI result

No excuses for Blues not making the QF's now imo, got a demoralized and all but eliminated Irish next before Racing in Cardiff. If they fail now...

In the last two weeks the regions have looked as poor as ever, no point denying it. Can't see any of them scraping beyond the quarters as it stands, that being the best case scenario sadly.

flyhalffactory wrote:SourCream
I'll ask the same question as munkian................ Who is you team?, and how are they doing?

Why the petty name calling? I've answered munkian on a different thread.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:English clubs have done better & they have consistently won the cup & got to the final compared to the Welsh Regions who have consistently under performed in the HC

Yup you also have much bigger budgets, the ability to buy in a lot of over seas players, and 8 times our adult male players!
Despite all this, Saracens were the poorer team against the Ospreys last night, and England clubs are still below the Welsh regions in the other 2 European pools.

AlynDavies wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:English clubs have done better & they have consistently won the cup & got to the final compared to the Welsh Regions who have consistently under performed in the HC

Yup you also have much bigger budgets, the ability to buy in a lot of over seas players, and 8 times our adult male players!
Despite all this, Saracens were the poorer team against the Ospreys last night, and England clubs are still below the Welsh regions in the other 2 European pools.

My team Wasps had/have a small budget & won the HC twice with a teams of nearly all English players.
I accept the budgets are generally smaller for your regions compared to the likes of Tigers but the Regions have done very little in Europe apart from the first year of the HC.
A very long time ago.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:English clubs have done better & they have consistently won the cup & got to the final compared to the Welsh Regions who have consistently under performed in the HC

Yup you also have much bigger budgets, the ability to buy in a lot of over seas players, and 8 times our adult male players!
Despite all this, Saracens were the poorer team against the Ospreys last night, and England clubs are still below the Welsh regions in the other 2 European pools.

My team Wasps had/have a small budget & won the HC twice with a teams of nearly all English players.
I accept the budgets are generally smaller for your regions compared to the likes of Tigers but the Regions have done very little in Europe apart from the first year of the HC.
A very long time ago.

Sorry mate but you would have to find financial figures to prove to us that Dallaglio, Lewesy, Goode, Howley, Dawson, Worsely etc etc were on a small budget... Those guys would have been on huge wages. As would the coaches like Gatland, McGeechn and Edwards.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:SourCream
I'll ask the same question as munkian................ Who is you team?, and how are they doing?

Why the petty name calling? I've answered munkian on a different thread.

Give it a rest SourCream, we know what you are all about

So for the rest of us who missed your reply to munkian on a previous post.............. come on grow a pair and tell the forum

What team to you support?

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:English clubs have done better & they have consistently won the cup & got to the final compared to the Welsh Regions who have consistently under performed in the HC

Yup you also have much bigger budgets, the ability to buy in a lot of over seas players, and 8 times our adult male players!
Despite all this, Saracens were the poorer team against the Ospreys last night, and England clubs are still below the Welsh regions in the other 2 European pools.

My team Wasps had/have a small budget & won the HC twice with a teams of nearly all English players.
I accept the budgets are generally smaller for your regions compared to the likes of Tigers but the Regions have done very little in Europe apart from the first year of the HC.
A very long time ago.

Sorry mate but you would have to find financial figures to prove to us that Dallaglio, Lewesy, Goode, Howley, Dawson, Worsely etc etc were on a small budget... Those guys would have been on huge wages. As would the coaches like Gatland, McGeechn and Edwards.

There is an interesing (at least for me!) study paper titled the Impact of professionalism on European Rugby Union. (google it) and it analyses in detail the relative performances by nations in Europe and part of it shows that the % of wins in ERC pool matches in descending order

Ireland
England
France
Wales
Scotland
Italy

England and in particular Ireland have outperformed France which is despite the smaller budgets. You can put whatever spin you want to on it but Welsh teams have just not done the business in Europe & the first step to doing something about it is to acknowledge the shortcomings and then move on.

Our time will come, I would be more worried if we had done well in the competition in the past but had taken a backward step.
Ireland have done very well in the HC they have shown us smaller nations the way it should be done and I have no doubt that Wales will also be up there sooner rather than later.
As for England and France neither have any excuse for not doing well in the cup due to the fact that they have twice as many teams involved.

Ireland are able to hold on to their top players. Wales are not at the moment. Rulings like Gatlands Law, that it will disaffect your international selection compared with Financial security for you and your family for the rest of your life is a tough argument.

I am sure you all know how many great Welsh players went north to league before professionalism. This is becoming a similar situation.

The regions will continue to produce great players, who establish themselves and get bought by wealthier European nations club sides.

Cymroglan wrote:Our time will come, I would be more worried if we had done well in the competition in the past but had taken a backward step.
Ireland have done very well in the HC they have shown us smaller nations the way it should be done and I have no doubt that Wales will also be up there sooner rather than later.
As for England and France neither have any excuse for not doing well in the cup due to the fact that they have twice as many teams involved.

Again this is head in the sand stuff i'm afraid.

Cardiff got to the final in the first year. Last year no Welsh teams got to the quarters and this year the Blues will be lucky to get past the quarters.
In my book that IS going backwards.
I think the WRU has to step in to improve for the future. but in any case the Regions have underperformed given the players available and the fact that they are concentrated in just the 3 Regions as opposed to spread over a number of clubs as in England.
I think in the past it may have been down to inept coaching but the future is looking more bleak unless the player drain is halted as Maesteg says.

Saying that the scarlets look as likely to win in Thormond park as Munster this afternoon, The Ospreys lost two games to Saracens more by their own conceding the soft tries and Cardiff blues are top of their group.

All three could go through. I dont think there is too much doom and gloom outside of Swansea

It's not doom and gloom at all for me , I was never expecting instant results. Lots of good young players coming through , positive stuff

Sh!tting hell, what an angry thread. Aren't we getting near Christmas?

Why are posters so down on the Blues qualifying? Not sure what the head to head record is but they are currently topping their pool or are the highest placed runners up at the moment with 13 points (Biarritz and Tigers on 12).

Can't Welsh rugby just be 'doing okay'? Why aren't you still basking under the mulled wine glow of a huge World Cup run? Isn't the cup half full?

World cup hangover for us fans and players

George Carlin wrote:Isn't the cup half full?

It is, but there's a leak (leek?) in it?

SafeAsMilk wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Isn't the cup half full?

It is, but there's a leak (leek?) in it?

Why is this wum not banned yet? I thought 606V2 was anti-wum?

I know he's a wum - but that's actually (for a 1st time) really funny!

In defence of the OP, there was at least one article by a Welsh poster here after the first round of the Heineken that was prematurely boastful. Don't feed the WUMs!

Oh well, we all know that on their day the Welsh Regions can beat anyone.

I agree luckless pedestrian there was a lot of talk of no English teams in the quarter finals. Doesn't look that likely now.

AlynDavies if you think Ospreys had an easy group you are deluded. They had to take on the English champions - obviously that was their downfall. Saracens were not poorer than Ospreys. If they were they would have lost.

cant we just have one ongoing thread where all the wums can get together and play and leave the rest to have actual discussions about rugby?

The usual suspects, bah humbug.

You're right Comfort my post was unnecessary, we all know on their day the Welsh players can beat anyone so why is it that the Regions have failed again in the HC?

Comfort what do you think was the downfall of Scarlets and Ospreys?

Poor coaching, the quality of the opposition, world cup hangover? Lack of experience?

I personally feel Scarlets were unfortunate to come up against the might of Munster. Munster have the HC pedigree, Scarlets are still a work in progress. A potential bright future though.

The Ospreys were also unfortunate to come up against the English champions. For whatever reasons, maybe it was tactics, team selection the Ospreys simply couldn't match Sarries. Again it could be down to transition. Ospreys are going through a transformation from "the galacticos"/"one true region" into a side built around a team mentality. This new ethos is not going to reap results instantly. Last season Saracens learnt the same harsh lessons as the O's this time (admittedly in a much tougher group) but the O's can learn.

The most important thing is that the O's and Scarlets learn from their defeats and come back next season stronger and with renewed hunger.

It is sometimes forgotten that there a lot of youngsters in these sides. They will learn and probably come back stronger.

Cardiff have no excuses though. As they are in the weakest HC pool they should qualify. If not then serious questions need to be answered.