606 Picks the team to play Scotland in the 6Ns - 2nd Row

Front row is looking like Corbisiero, Hartley, Cole.

So how about the second row? You have multiple choices, so use them wisely. As Stuart Lancaster has stated that where you play will not harm your chances, and as media pundits have selected some old guys - everyone I can think of is included. Lets see what we get - lord help us.

I would go for Palmer and Lawes. Both are great all-rounders in the second row and both have done it before for England. I'd probably have Parling and Deacon in the squad with them, and then look at a couple of fresh options in the summer tour, possibly Attwood and Garvey joining those four and see how they go.

borthwick should be in the list, i know how unpopular he is after his stint as captain but if the slate is truly being wiped clean... he is one of the top locks on form this season. fantastic against the ospreys last night.

Agree with HQ matt. Borthwick wouldn't be my choice, but he's definitely more worthy of consideration over some of the names on the list.

With Borthwick theres too much baggage unless he genuinely needed. Theres other experienced locks fit and playing well who have as much if not more chance of making the next world cup. then theres plenty of young hungry ones too.
Hes also one of those players who has often gone through phases of being good for his club but not bought that the the international side ( late career wilko being another). Even ignoring the captaincy issue you have to ask when did he ever not look out of his depth as a modern second row forward at international level?
If it has to be an older player Id rather it were Palmer or Deacon.

Biased ...yes, but i'd far rather have Hudson over Borthwick...

I think this followed by the back row is the biggest headache whilst picking the whole team.
I'd probably go with Lawes...but i have said before i would like to see him bulk up a little more and really become the enforcer...

But until he does...i'd like to see him partnered with a big guy...so for that reason its Deacon...or the apparently very good Garvey (who i havent seen much of to be fair)

4 Deacon
5 Lawes

In my opinion Borthwick won't get picked for a number of reasons. Whilst clearly he is up there with Marco Wentzel in terms of line-out prowess, as Peter SW said he comes with too much baggage.

Any attempt to appoint him by Lancaster will be met with derision by the press and further, Lancaster has all but admitted that he's looking to blood players in preperation for the 2015 RWC which Borthwick wouldn't have a hope of making. Add to this Borthwick's biggest weakness which is ball carrying and I don't see him with a snowball's chance in hell. Unless of course the playing model is to kick the leather off the damn thing and steal line-out, but for that you need a world class controlling 10 who'll kick all his goals, and a fan base that hasn't already been bored the utter socks off...

My picks would be Lawes and Attwood, with Croft at 6 to shore up the lineout. Attwood has come on really well so far this season, after looking a bit petulant and overrated he is really starting to put the work in. Lawes has the potential to be truly excellent, an awesome tackler but needs to get his ball carrying technique refined.

Palmers I think will be left out re the RFU policy on home-based platers (whatever Lancaster thinks he'll be reminded of that commitment) that means I think either Deacon on the bench for a bit of experience or someone like Garvey/Robson who have been playing really well. Would be nice to see them tested on the top stage at least.

I went for Garvey and Lawes, both young and very talented. I'd have croft and wood on the flanks, plenty of lineout options.

Apologies for missing Borthwick - I meant to type him in but fingers must have refused

flankertye wrote:I went for Garvey and Lawes, both young and very talented. I'd have croft and wood on the flanks, plenty of lineout options.

Ditto, they would be a very big,abrasive and hard working second row pairing. England need players to get stuck into the breakdown and generate quick ball, I reckon Garvey in particular could help with that.

I would go with Lawes and Parling for now, but would like to see Garvey and Robson given some game time. If Lawes can step-up and run the line-out then Garvey should start ahead of Parling. In fact, at the moment, Garvey is playing so well I'd be tempted to stick him in ahead of Lawes. Anyway, it should be these four without a shadow of a doubt.

As much as Parling was on top form before he got injured, I just think a pairing of him and Lawes would be too lightweight...Lawes still has to bulk out a lot, and he needs a bruiser next to him to allow him to play his natural game. At the moment, I think this is in the form of Deacon or Palmer, but think a future pairing of Lawes and Garvey/Attwood would be great.

I like Hudson as a 2nd row. It really shows when he isnt playing for Newcastle.
He is a real workmanlike player and partnered with the more dynamic Lawes it could work. He is the kind of player that England would need to shore up the pack. With Lawes and Palmer weve been looking a little lightweight.
The only time England have really looked solid is when Shaw's been involved.

Ha, blues - sorry, you got there just before me re:lightweight England pack.

RE: Dave Attwood, I wasnt that impressed by his showing against Leinster this weekend.

I know that Lawes & Attwood have won this poll, but correct me if I'm wrong, neither are lineout leaders. It might make more sense to put forward the top polling player and then the top polling lineout leader?

niwatts - that is true, but with Croft/Wood or Easter at the tail there are still plenty of lineout options for an Englands side to accomodate the more bulkier 2nd rows.

Palmer-Robson-Kennedy as far as I know all run their respective club lineouts.

Is Lawes not the lineout specialist for Saints? Or is he just the primary jumper?

I'm not talking about lineout options, but someone who directs the whole lineout operation, makes the calls relative to the situation and the opposition, and sets about deciphering the opposition's calls and strategy. That's not a role Lawes, Attwood, Croft, Wood or Easter fulfills, but is essential to a side that hopes to perform against good teams.

At international level you definitely need a lock that is experienced at controlling the lineout operations. Robson & Garvey run their respective team's lineouts and only have a couple of votes less than Attwood.