SA v SL, 3rd Test debate

Just noticed there is no thread started on the 3rd test between SA and SL although the match has already started.
Lanka won the toss and are bowling.
Lahiru Thirimanne in for Tharanga Paranavitana, and Damika Prasad in for Dilhara Fernando.
For South Africa, Alviro Petersen returns to the top in place of Ashwell Prince, and Jacque Rudolph is moved down the order. Vernon Philander comes back in for Marchant De Lange.

Thanks for setting it up, MSP. Can Sri Lanka cause a huge upset? I don't think so, but it will be interesting. Is Philander back in?

Graeme Smith started off with aggression, but it got the better of him, dragging on a rather harmless first ball from Prasad on to his stumps for 16. SA 47-1.

Philander is back, and he's in for young De Lange.
Tough for the youngster, but I think Morne deserved a few more chances.

Yeah, DeLange did well but I guess after Philander's extraordinary start there was no way they'd leave him out if fit.

Prasad is generating some good pace, but there is not much for the bowlers in the track. A bit surprised to see Sri Lanka choosing to bowl first.

South Africa team
Graeme Smith , Alviro Petersen, Hashim Amla, Jacques Kallis, AB de Villiers, Jacques Rudolph, Mark Boucher, Vernon Philander, Dale Steyn, Morne Morkel, Imran Tahir.



Sri Lanka team
TM Dilshan, HDRL Thirimanne, KC Sangakkara, DPMD Jayawardene, TT Samaraweera, AD Mathews, LD Chandimal†, NLTC Perera, HMRKB Herath, UWMBCA Welegedara, KTGD Prasad

Some stats for of Newlands.

Average first innings score 335
Average second innings 350
Average third innings 282
Average fourth innings 234

Highest first innings 620/7

Jacques Kallis average at Newlands 72.11, He is playing his 150th test today.

It seems Kallis is not impressed by his pair of the previous test. Hard to believe it took 149 test to get a pair. But he seems in a bit of a rush here, and has already had some luck, I would suggest he calms down and plays the ball on merit.

The problem with this attack is they don't have the pace to trouble Kallis, and can't pin him on his crease, allowing him to play more aggressively and get away with it. He is certainly motoring so far.

dissappointing innings for smith and amla, but good session overall for SA.

135/2

Pietersen 54* off 80 balls
Kallis 47* off 37 balls

Pietersen looked solid and I am happy SA decided to move Rudolph up the order and give Pietersen a chance.

Kallis seems like a man intent on throwing his wicket away, but will hopefully settle down and play a little more circumspect in the second session.

Sri Lanka is bowling too short. Especially Matthews.

It's not a good sign for SA when Kallis plays his strokes early on, doesn't occur to him to calm down when he gets lucky, instead he tends to play even more flamboyantly. Hope I'm wrong but can see him getting out soon after lunch.

Why on earth is Tahir who has frankly been awful till date picked over De Lange?

A spin option, I guess. It'd be a bit daft to have no front line spinner in the side.

Fists of Fury wrote:A spin option, I guess. It'd be a bit daft to have no front line spinner in the side.

I believe in picking your 4 best bowlers particularly given that this match is in SA.If this was in SL then a spinner would have been needed.

I agree with Shanky, Tahir came into the SA squad because everyone believed he will be more effective than Harris, well he hasn't been, he has less control and is way more expensive, so he isn't really effective as a containing bowler or a strike bowler.

Imagine how de Lange must feel, take 7 wickets in an innings on debut and dropped te next match, has that ever happened before?

I don't think De Lange will mind. Unless he is incredibly naive, he will have known that he was only playing one Test, given the start to Philander's international career. Very unlucky, as opposed to harsh.

A spinner is just a nice option to have, they can break partnerships and give the captain a different angle of attack, so I'm with Smith on this one, and feel that they've made the right selection.

An attacking spinner needs the security of knowing that he's being giving a reasonable run in the side to start with. They wouldn't want a situation where he's bowling flat & quick to not risk conceding runs. Warne only had 4 wickets after his first 4 tests - not saying Tahir's in the same league but can you imagine what the world would've missed if they'd given up on Warne at that stage.

Has Kallis drunk too many Castle Lagers over the holidays?

Regarding spinners.

It's always nice to have one but if the conditions don't suit and your spinner is no Shane Warne then there's not much point.

An excellent stat Galted, I knew it wasn't many but I'm surprised it was as few as four! All I can say is thank God they persevered, though a few batsmen from all of the other cricketing nations won't be saying the same thing, and would be boasting significantly better averages had he been discarded!

true about the batsmen FoF (especially Cullinan - who I discovered this morning has 5 out of the 12 centuries SA have scored against Sri Lanka when no-one else has more than 1).

It looks like Pietersen is answering the call of the selectors.

He was unreasonably dropped, and unlike Rudolph is immediately showing the selectors they were wrong to drop him.

good on him.

Yep, well done Petersen. Glad Kallis has calmed down a bit too.

Well played

Has this been his quickest ton?

Most likely. What on earth is this bowling attack of Sri Lanka doing. I cannot recall such an abject display in living memory, completely brainless lines and lengths coupled with Dilshan's drastic lack of innovation as captain.

Can I ask how on Earth they managed to win the last Test? South Africa must have been extraordinarily bad!

Galted wrote:An attacking spinner needs the security of knowing that he's being giving a reasonable run in the side to start with. They wouldn't want a situation where he's bowling flat & quick to not risk conceding runs. Warne only had 4 wickets after his first 4 tests - not saying Tahir's in the same league but can you imagine what the world would've missed if they'd given up on Warne at that stage.

Yep and imagine what wouldve happened to England if theyd have dumped Swann after his first ODI

Galted wrote:It's not a good sign for SA when Kallis plays his strokes early on, doesn't occur to him to calm down when he gets lucky, instead he tends to play even more flamboyantly. Hope I'm wrong but can see him getting out soon after lunch.

Predicting accurately is clearly not my strong-point.

hehe!

Thing is Sri Lanka simply dont have good bowlers, and they dont seem to have much heart in the team at the moment...no doubt the whole payments issue didnt help with the morale.
But lets not forget SA are a good side and Kallis is one of the greatest test batsmen of all time. The last test was a big suprise, this one is going more according to the form book.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Thing is Sri Lanka simply dont have good bowlers, and they dont seem to have much heart in the team at the moment...no doubt the whole payments issue didnt help with the morale.
But lets not forget SA are a good side and Kallis is one of the greatest test batsmen of all time. The last test was a big suprise, this one is going more according to the form book.

yeah we have these real pathetic tests which we inexplicably play very, very poor cricket.

What a start to the new Jacques Kallis has had!. He did pretty much the same and more against India last year.
Fine comeback from Alviro Petersen as well. A lot of us did think the South African selectors were a touch harsh in dropping him, and he proved us right!.
Disappointing performance from Sri Lanka, the decision at the toss wasn't the most sensible looking one, and Dilshan would have had all day to think about it!.
On Tahir vs De Lange, I think the SA management did the right think. Harbhajan Singh had his best match with the ball in his overseas test career here last year. Remember Harbhajan had already lost a lot of his form by then, and Tahir is an attacking spinner, although its true he hasn't quite offered the Harris like control, or enough wickets for an attacking spinner so far.
Going in with 4 quicks+ Kallis wouldn't have made a lot of sense, although its unlucky for young De Lange. But he'll have his chances sooner rather than later, particularly if Morne Morkel doesn't get his act together soon.

good to see Peterson scoring runs...however not sure rudolph down the order will work....dropping prince would have been perfect for duminy to slot back into the side...

Kallis intent on proving that his pair was just a blip. What a remarkable performer he's been over the years....

Ha! Someone was saying to me just the other day "I don't see what Rudolph's doing at the moment" and I said "I thought Peterson looked like a test player but he kept getting out, I reckon he should get another chance he might do well for himself".

Duminy was worked over first by the Aussies, then had a nightmare against Swann. In a way he seems fairly typical of this current generation of batsmen: looks classy when he's going well, but seems to get out far too easily.

Kallis is such a quality player I was so happy to see him score runs.

Sri Lanka's attack is pedestrian to the extreme. Beginning to think there was a bit of complacency about the last test...

South Africa have started strong.

Kallis to get another double?

Well played Jacques. Few slices of luck with the 2 dropped catches, 1 of which was a sitter, but some very good shots mixed in there.

Sri Lanka still poor and very disappointing.

Well done Jacques - just checked on the top 40 aggregate runs in tests & the only batsmen with higher averages than Kallis are Sobers, Hammond & some chap called Bradman.

Kallis really should be considered one of great batsmen of this era. The fact that he was also the best all rounder of his generation makes him a pretty special cricketer. By the time his careers done the stats may make his bowling look less effective than it was, theres no question that its gone downhill significantly and his figures suffer. But it does seem hes replaced that with even greater batting acheivements.
He deserves to be spoken alongside Tendulkar Warne and McGrath as one of the last 20 years.
True legend.

I think he is already considered as such, Pete. Certainly by the majority of us here, anyway. A tremendous batsman, and a tremendous all round cricketer.

Arguably the best Cricketer since Sobers. The WOW factor has often been missing, which rightly or wrongly counts against him.

Rightly, in my own view, Stella, as it is the entertainment business after all. However, it shouldn't detract too much from an immensely skilled and talented performer.

The WOW factor is pretty subjective, could argue that Donald had it more than McGrath but McGrath would be more likely to be included in a team of all-time greats. From the mid-80s onwards (batting only) the only batsmen I'd put ahead of Kallis are Lara & Ponting. If I had to select a world XI for the same time period the first 3 names I'd put down would be Warne, Kallis & Murali

No Tendulkar?

Nope, would put him on par with Kallis batting-wise but far behind when it comes to the overall contribution on the cricket field.

Tendulkar has acheived more as a batsman, across all 3 formats, than the others. He bowls more than Ponting does and he didnt lose the Ashes.

wasn't including odis or t20 - it's obviously just opinion but never got the impression Tendulkar could win or save a game like Lara or Ponting could - played some pretty innings but his records have a lot to do with longevity. Could make the same argument for Kallis but when you include his bowling & fielding his contribution is massive even if not headline-grabbing.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Tendulkar has acheived more as a batsman, across all 3 formats, than the others. He bowls more than Ponting does and he didnt lose the Ashes.

Best not mention Tendulkar's captaincy

I would rate Lara and Tendulkar above Ponting, Kallis and Dravid but only just.

I may be one of very few that think Kallis is better than Ponting.

It may have taken Kallis longer to average fifty (about 50 test matches) but in recent years he outperformed Ponting on the batting stage.

Ponting's batting has not been as formidable as Kallis'

Good declaration by SA. 580/4

Will probably see 5-6 overs before tea.

De-Villiers went a bit mental near the end. Just what was needed.

Not a good declaration. There's 41 overs left, for Pete's sake. Chances to get as on top as this come rarely. Why didn't SA grind them into the dust? Also the extra runs - and they would have come very quickly - may have been/may be the difference in being able to enforce the follow on and not. Sri Lanka have, to some extent, being let off the hook.

sirfredperry wrote:Not a good declaration. There's 41 overs left, for Pete's sake. Chances to get as on top as this come rarely. Why didn't SA grind them into the dust? Also the extra runs - and they would have come very quickly - may have been/may be the difference in being able to enforce the follow on and not. Sri Lanka have, to some extent, being let off the hook.

I agree.
Both players were in and scoring very rapidly. Another 20 overs of that and we could have seen 700 plus and a massive task for the Lankans.