WI vs NZ, First Test Debate

The first test between West Indies and New Zealand has got underway in Antigua.
Chris Gayle and Kemar Roach are back for the West Indies, and the much awaited test debut of the South Africa born fast bowler Neil Wagner is a highlight for NZ as far as the sides are concerned.
West Indies team.
Chris Gayle, Kieran Powell, Asad Fudadin, Marlon Samuels, Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Narsingh Deonarine, Denesh Ramdin, Darren Sammy, Ravi Rampaul, Sunil Narine, Kemar Roach.
New Zealand.
Martin Guptill, Daniel Flin, Brendan McCullum, Kane Williamson, Ross Taylor, Dean Brownlie, Daniel Vetori, Cruger Van Wik, Neil Wagner, Dug Bracewell, Chris Martin.

Solid batting from openers Dan Flynn and Martin Guptill makes the first session NZ's, 71 without loss at lunch.

NZ 127-2. Flynn out for 45 caught at point of a bouncing ball from Narine, and McCullum hitting a wide full one to Deonarine at mid-off of the bowling of Roach to get out for 25.

NZ 159-2 at tea. Guptill looking good on 73, and captain Ross Taylor is batting on 6. He just had a marginal escape from a stumping in the last over before tea.

Interestingly poised. Well done to Sammy for resisting any temptation to use the new ball.

Us South Africans do get around, don't we?

SAs biggest export after diamonds & Rooibos tea is international cricketers.

biltongbek wrote:Us South Africans do get around, don't we?

Just call us South Africa "C".

We also pinched Dipak Patel and Roger Twose from England a few years back. Though in fairness Andy Caddick was probably a fair swap. And apparently ex-Aussie 'keeper Luke Ronchi is trying to become NZ-qualified.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Us South Africans do get around, don't we?

Just call us South Africa "C".

We also pinched Dipak Patel and Roger Twose from England a few years back. Though in fairness Andy Caddick was probably a fair swap. And apparently ex-Aussie 'keeper Luke Ronchi is trying to become NZ-qualified.

Don't forget about the all-rounder Grant Elliott as well.

gboycottnut wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Us South Africans do get around, don't we?

Just call us South Africa "C".

We also pinched Dipak Patel and Roger Twose from England a few years back. Though in fairness Andy Caddick was probably a fair swap. And apparently ex-Aussie 'keeper Luke Ronchi is trying to become NZ-qualified.

Don't forget about the all-rounder Grant Elliott as well.

There's too many Saffers to list

The occasional Ozzie too

Kiwireddevil wrote:

gboycottnut wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Us South Africans do get around, don't we?

Just call us South Africa "C".

We also pinched Dipak Patel and Roger Twose from England a few years back. Though in fairness Andy Caddick was probably a fair swap. And apparently ex-Aussie 'keeper Luke Ronchi is trying to become NZ-qualified.

Don't forget about the all-rounder Grant Elliott as well.

There's too many Saffers to list

The occasional Ozzie too

Dean Brownlie is the latest Aussie to play cricket for New Zealand, following in the footsteps of Matthew Sinclair who scored a double century V West Indies in his test series debut. Have there been other Aussies that have played for New Zealand?

gboycottnut wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

gboycottnut wrote:

Kiwireddevil wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Us South Africans do get around, don't we?

Just call us South Africa "C".

We also pinched Dipak Patel and Roger Twose from England a few years back. Though in fairness Andy Caddick was probably a fair swap. And apparently ex-Aussie 'keeper Luke Ronchi is trying to become NZ-qualified.

Don't forget about the all-rounder Grant Elliott as well.

There's too many Saffers to list

The occasional Ozzie too

Dean Brownlie is the latest Aussie to play cricket for New Zealand, following in the footsteps of Matthew Sinclair who scored a double century V West Indies in his test series debut. Have there been other Aussies that have played for New Zealand?

Tama Canning was born in Perth (he's part-Maori, hence the full moniker "Tamahau Karangatukituki Canning" - Tamahau translates as "Son of the Wind" and Karangatukituki as either "Summon the hammer" or "Come here and slay") and was trained at the Aussie cricket academy - he only managed 4 ODIs due to injuries and attitude issues, on talent he should have played tests

I forgot to mention we've pinched Tarun Nethula from India too ...

And of course Martin and Jeff Crowe have strong Aussie connections via their cousin Russell

Nightwatchman Wagner falls early, 239/5 means a lot of work for Williamson, Brownlie, Vettori & van Wyk.

Roach gets Williamson, and he was denied by the umpire a 2nd wicket next ball, as Cruger Van Wyk gloved one down the leg side to Ramdin but the umpire didn't spot the glove and the WI had their 2 reviews done with already. NZ 273-6

281/7 as Brownlie goes caught behind off Rampaul

van Wyk and Vettori with a lot to do, as there's only Bracewell and Chris "walking wicket" Martin left in the hutch.

Thought Vetori should have batted ahead of Cruger Van Wyk.

msp83 wrote:Thought Vetori should have batted ahead of Cruger Van Wyk.

There was talk of Vettori batting 6 during the week, with Nethula playing as a 2nd spinner. The way the pitch sounds it might have been a good idea, as is I expect Williamson and Guptil to be bowling a few overs.

Van Wyk does open the batting in first class cricket though, perhaps they changed the order as the 2nd new ball was quite fresh

To be fair to Van Wyk, he looked decent against South AAfrica, although he didn't score anything big.

New Zealand will be disappointed they didn't make 400, especially considering the start they made. If they can get Gayle and Chanderpaul early, then they have a real chance in this Test. And as I type, Gayle hits 4 consecutive boundaries, 16 off the first over.

West Indies 72-0 at tea, replying to NZ's 351 allout. Returning to the test side, Chris Gayle, like he did during his ODI and T-20 returns, has started with a 50. 51 notout of 40 balls from Chris, and young Kieran Powell batting on 21.
For New Zealand Chris Martin looked rather off colour, but both Bracewell and Wagner showed intensity. Gayle was in fact put down by Flynn of Bracewell on 36, and Powell edged back to back boundaries of Wagner, at least one of them a half chance to Martin Guptill at slip.

Neil Wagner has given decent early impressions, has got some pace, bowls consistently over the mid 80 MPH mark and get it up a bit towards the late 80s. Doesn't seem short of a word to the batsman every now and then. has moved a few as well.

West Indies end the day at 145 without loss. Chris Gayle not out 85, Kieran Powell notout 58.
Vetori bowled real tight, Bracewell too kept the batters rather quiet. Wagner despite the runs scored of his bowling always showed intent, and bowled a testing brief spel towards the end of the day. Kane Williamson also chipping in with a few quiet overs.
Fine comeback innings from Chris Gayle, when Vetori bowled really well Gayle chose to respect the quality of the bowling and didn't look to hit his way out of trouble. Took the single whenever available, and cut out the big shot mostly. Had a few edgy moments particularly against Vetori, but very importantly for WI, he's still out there in the middle, ready to fight another day. What a difference his return has made already, The WI top order has been a complete disaster in England and even the Australia series at home wasn't any different, but with the big man back, even the other opener was able to really take his time and build an innings without any pressure to score.
Good knock from Powell as well, he too had his edgy moments, but withstood all that to put up a fine opening partnership with Gayle.

West Indies' IPL stars are shining bright

msp83 wrote:Neil Wagner has given decent early impressions, has got some pace, bowls consistently over the mid 80 MPH mark and get it up a bit towards the late 80s. Doesn't seem short of a word to the batsman every now and then. has moved a few as well.

Yes he looked good.....got the ball to kick just a bit more than normal from a length.....and has decent pace....hitting upto 139kph.

Bracewell ain't a bad package either...swings the ball at 136kph and a handy lower order bat.

Lunch on Day 3: West Indies 245/0. The NZ bowlers are taking a pasting.

Duty281 wrote:Lunch on Day 3: West Indies 245/0. The NZ bowlers are taking a pasting.

Dropped catches are a killer - normally NZ works extra hard on its fielding, to make up for other deficiencies, so I'm disappointed at the misses last night. I wonder if John Wright's coasting a bit since it's his last series in charge.

The Gayle and Powell show continues, NZ had a chance just before lunch, but neither Van Wyk nor taylor could take the edge from Gayle of Williamson.

NZ score erased for the loss of just 2 wickets. NZ, IMO, have the makings of a decent side, if they can find a decent batsman and a decent spinner.
The seam contingent looks pretty good.

WI are upto nearly 400 now....fudadin and deonarine having a bit of a partnership.

they need to push past 500.....bat a session an a half tomorrow.......then they have a good chance of not letting NZ go too much past their lead of 150.....on D4 and D5 pitch with Sunil Narine bowling.

I still suspect give their track record...that there is a fear of Windies collpasing in 4th inning if they are given too much more than a 100 odd to chase...so the,ve gotta make thisinning count BIG

Sammy continues to out perform his abilities , and gets WI to a good 170 lead.
Now Narine should spin out NZ not leaving a lot for WI in the 4th inning to chase.

I thought NZ would crumble but they're doing well, 169/1 at the moment. They may get back in the lead with not too many wickets lost which I didn't expect.

New Zealand have collapsed to 272 all out. WI need 102 to win in 46 overs. With Gayle in the team, they'll win at a canter.

that morning session was a shocker!

Its worth celebrating........
Romatists like us are perpetually looking for "The Rennaissance".

NZ is not a walkover .......they drew in Aus and held SA to 2 draws.......

WI bowling was allround good......and if they fix Sammy's forced inclusion ........their ascent will be faster.

Gayle showed them what could have been.....had he been around all the time.

West Indies are continuing to show signs of improvement - a year or two ago they would have been just as inept as New Zealand in this series.

However, New Zealand really are pretty awful at the moment and so it will be disappointing if they don't win 2-0 here.

The more impressive step forward has been in their competitiveness against an admittedly mediocre Australia and even in England. Hopefully this series will help develop a killer instinct - along with top-order runs the main thing that's been missing up to now.

Lets get off Sammy's back. He's already West Indies best captain for many years, and is a fair performer with bat and ball. He disrupts the balance slightly, but only slightly - ideally he is a 7 with a 5-man attack but they can't really afford that luxury given the general weakness in batting and wicket-keeping.

Gayle returns to Test cricket quietly as usual then?

New Zealand are atrocious. There's ability with the bat, but it's hard to see how they'd ever bowl teams out.

liverbnz wrote:Gayle returns to Test cricket quietly as usual then?

New Zealand are atrocious. There's ability with the bat, but it's hard to see how they'd ever bowl teams out.

There is potential in the bowling - Martin has been dangerous in the past (though not in this Test), and of course there is Vettori (though he hasn't seemed the same bowler in the last couple of years). After that Southee and Bracewell are highly rated but other than isolated spells I must say they haven't really impressed me.

The NZ batting is far too flaky. How often does McCullum, the best batsman, give his wicket away? And Taylor rarely sticks his hand up with a big score. And the rest get bamboozled by even the slightest hint of spin.

KP_fan wrote:
NZ is not a walkover .......they drew in Aus and held SA to 2 draws.......

Not difficult to draw a test in NZ mate, it rains a lot.

biltongbek wrote:

KP_fan wrote:
NZ is not a walkover .......they drew in Aus and held SA to 2 draws.......

Not difficult to draw a test in NZ mate, it rains a lot.

yes I know...but inspite of the rain curtailments.....they did bat out 4 sessions nearly against the quality of SA bowling to hold on to a draw.
Letting go John Wright for Buchannan's sake wasn't a great decision...I thouhg then...and it is becoming evident now.

Shelsey93 wrote:

liverbnz wrote:Gayle returns to Test cricket quietly as usual then?

New Zealand are atrocious. There's ability with the bat, but it's hard to see how they'd ever bowl teams out.

There is potential in the bowling - Martin has been dangerous in the past (though not in this Test), and of course there is Vettori (though he hasn't seemed the same bowler in the last couple of years). After that Southee and Bracewell are highly rated but other than isolated spells I must say they haven't really impressed me.

The NZ batting is far too flaky. How often does McCullum, the best batsman, give his wicket away? And Taylor rarely sticks his hand up with a big score. And the rest get bamboozled by even the slightest hint of spin.

Martin must be near 40 is he not? And it seems the captaincy finally took it's toll on Vettori despite some very good individual performances when he was in situ. Southee did show promise, didn't he take a 5fer against England a few years ago? I also remember him carting our bowlers all over the park one evening but haven't heard a great deal of him since.