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Scotland Vs England

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TycroesOsprey
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Post by EngInAuck Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:24 am

I Dont know about anyone else but Ive never looked forward to a England Scotland Game as much as i am at the moment.

In Recent years i would expect nothing more than a win from the England side. Partly because im english and have always felt England have had the stronger team. But this year is different. England Have a very youthful and inexperienced side with plenty of promising fresh faces were as Scotland Basically has the same experienced squad it took to the world cup minus a couple of players (Paterson and Heinz).

And of course another factor you cant ignore is Murrayfield. Hopefully the scots will manage to fill the stadium so the atmosphere will be electric. Murrayfield has not been a happy hunting ground for the majority of teams (with the exception of the ABs). Scotland has managed to beat far superior looking teams on paper in the past few years Oz and Sa spring to mind. Also if being knocked out of the world cup in the group stages by your southern neighbour doesn't raise your game im not sure what will!

As always england have injuries coming into the tournament with most notably Flood and Manu set to miss the first match but saying that a fly half and centre partner ship of Hodgson, Farrell and Barritt is almost mouth watering and is a proven success at Premiership level. And the inclusion of Ben Morgan and Chris Robshaw in the replacement of Moody and Easter is just as exciting. Seeing as Ive Mentioned England's injury woes its only fair the i mention that Scotland are missing a Prop by the name of Moray Low, im not sur how much this has effected Scotland's plans.

Im Geussing the England team will look something like this:

1.Cole
2.Hartly
3.Stevens
4.Palmer
5.Botha/Lawes(injury pending)
6.Croft
7.Wood (C)
8.Morgan
9.Youngs
10.Hodgson
11.Sharples
12.Farrell
13.Barritt
14.Ashton
15.Foden

I do not know enough about the Scottish team but im sure Someone will Probably post one.

I Dont know about every one else but im really looking forward to Feb 5th at 6 oclock in the morn (Thats Feb 4th at 17:00 for you guys in Blighty) it should prove to be a exciting Close game and one which will set the tones for both Nations in the run up to the 2015 RWC.

rose Vs Braveheart = Drool


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Post by aucklandlaurie Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:17 am

Must say I enjoyed going to the last England Scotland game,first time I'd been to see either of these teams not playing the ABs.

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Post by mckay1402 Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:27 am

well my dad is nearly 80 and going to his first six nations match so I'm hoping for a good Scottish win
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Post by EngInAuck Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:29 am

mckay1402 wrote:well my dad is nearly 80 and going to his first six nations match so I'm hoping for a good Scottish win

What a great match to start with Ale
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Post by mckay1402 Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:33 am

I know. lucky git. My brother got him a ticket for christmas the flaming show off. Anyway I thik it'll be a cracking game and I really hope Andy Robinson makes some brave selections like Weir at 10 and maybe Lee Jones
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Post by munkian Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:12 am

It's an odd feeling looking forward to a Scot End match. They are usually turgid stagnant affairs and a good alternative to sleeping tablets. But I must say I'm looking forward to this one thumbsup
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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:14 am

mckay1402 wrote:well my dad is nearly 80 and going to his first six nations match so I'm hoping for a good Scottish win
Brilliant for your dad - really hope that he gets a good spectacle OK

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Post by EngInAuck Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:26 am

munkian wrote:It's an odd feeling looking forward to a Scot End match. They are usually turgid stagnant affairs and a good alternative to sleeping tablets. But I must say I'm looking forward to this one thumbsup

I totally Agree , but ... i have a feeling this time the game will be one to remember. (hopefully for the right reasons)
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Post by Geordie Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:35 am

Im Geussing the England team will look something like this:

1.Cole
2.Hartly
3.Stevens
4.Palmer
5.Botha/Lawes(injury pending)
6.Croft
7.Wood (C)
8.Morgan
9.Youngs
10.Hodgson
11.Sharples
12.Farrell
13.Barritt
14.Ashton
15.Foden

Only disputes
1) Front row will be 1 Corbs 2 Hartley 3 Cole
2) Back row is anyones guess....but im not sure we'll see Wood and Croft on the flanks...despite having different styles of games.
3) And the midfield...hhmmmm you might have it right....but farrell and Barritt dont give me confidence in the creative stakes....prefer one of those at 12 with Trinder...

My biggest concern is up front...where we are gonna have a rampaging scotland pack...out for blood...do we have the pack to match it....i think so but they are inexperienced.....

Should be a cracker...

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Post by EngInAuck Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:39 am

Cheers Falcon Knew i had the front rows wrong
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Post by Biltong Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:42 am

Well the last time England wn at Murrayfield was in 2004. They did manage a draw last year, but it seems Murrayfield has become a difficult place for England.

Hopefully it isn't too cold so we can see some good rugby. I know the South Africans freeze their butts off when they tour there every November.

Is it still mid winter then?
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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:57 am

biltong, it's still mid-winter in July OK

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Post by Biltong Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:00 am

laughing

sorry to here about that. Here by us it is actually mid winter in july and then it is sunny with barely a cloud in the sky. Early morning can be between 3-6 degrees usually but as soon the the Sun has warmed up mother earth it is around 14-18 degrees.

Isn't that just marvellous.

That is what is so great about our winters, we can ride our cruisers without worrying about, rain, sleet, snow etc. Whistle
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Post by Geordie Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:17 am

Your not making yourself popular... Wink

But then having spent around 11 years living in Liberia....i can appreciate that... Very Happy

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Post by Biltong Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:19 am

Liberia or Siberia? Erm
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Post by Geordie Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:26 am

laughing ....The one nearer you Liberia (capital Monrovia)

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:26 am

biltongbek wrote: laughing

sorry to here about that. Here by us it is actually mid winter in july and then it is sunny with barely a cloud in the sky. Early morning can be between 3-6 degrees usually but as soon the the Sun has warmed up mother earth it is around 14-18 degrees.

Isn't that just marvellous.

That is what is so great about our winters, we can ride our cruisers without worrying about, rain, sleet, snow etc. Whistle
Years and years ago, shortly after finishing uni final exams, June-time, a friend and I set off up the Cobbler (a pleasant stroll, not quite a munro) in beautiful sunshine - 5 hours later, having reached the summit in a snow storm we made it back down, with the experience of all 4 seasons in a 3-hour burst - that's Scotland for you!

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Post by DaveM Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:28 am

EngInAuck wrote:
Im Geussing the England team will look something like this:

1.Cole
2.Hartly
3.Stevens
4.Palmer
5.Botha/Lawes(injury pending)
6.Croft
7.Wood (C)
8.Morgan
9.Youngs
10.Hodgson
11.Sharples
12.Farrell
13.Barritt
14.Ashton
15.Foden


You may be right about the players in midfield, but I Barritt and Farrell don't entirely convince on paper at international level and Barritt certainly doesn't have the pace for 13 so will have to play 12.

Our second row looks underpowered, so hopefully Attwood (and maybe Parlng) will be brought in.

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Post by Biltong Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:40 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Years and years ago, shortly after finishing uni final exams, June-time, a friend and I set off up the Cobbler (a pleasant stroll, not quite a munro) in beautiful sunshine - 5 hours later, having reached the summit in a snow storm we made it back down, with the experience of all 4 seasons in a 3-hour burst - that's Scotland for you!


It does look as pretty as a picture there. It seems PDV was the only human yet to experience 5 seasons in day in Wellington last year. At least you get second spot behind PDV. I hope he isn't a gloater. Erm
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Post by Equo Troiano Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:47 am

biltongbek wrote:Well the last time England wn at Murrayfield was in 2004. They did manage a draw last year, but it seems Murrayfield has become a difficult place for England.

Maybe because this is a quite young and inexperienced side will play into England hands then because they don't have the weight of expectation upon them or the memories of results past.

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Post by Biltong Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:55 am

Hi equo, welcome to 606v2. you may be right, but I really do hope Scotland can perform well at home. They need some results going their way after trying so hard in the world cup against both England and Argentina, only to lose matches they could have won.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:06 am

Here's the side I think England should be facing:

1.Jacobsen 2.Ford 3.Murray 4.Hamilton 5.Gray 6.Brown 7.Barclay 8.Denton 9.Cusiter 10.Weir 11.Evans 12.S Lamont 13.NDL 14.R Lamont 15.Hogg

Some thoughts:

- I think our front five will edge yours in the set piece, a pretty uncommon occurrence in a Calcutta Cup and if Scotland do edge the scrum it'll be interesting to see how that plays out and influences the game.

- Breakdown will be a massive contest. In recent times we've taken the honours from the breakdown more often than not, resulting in a couple of wins at Murrayfield and making life hard for you at Twickenham last season. This time round the England squad has a more balanced look to it in terms of breakdown abilities, but Brown and Barclay will still relish the challenge.

- Selection. Whatever happens this will be a new look England side. I predict Scotland will have new faces in the key positions of 10 and 15, but otherwise it's a pretty settled side (there's a good chance Robinson will keep Vernon at 8 rather than Denton). New vs. settled. Could be an advantage there for Scotland.

- Goal kicking - always a key item. Duncan Weir will likely be kicking goals for Scotland. A solid kicker who so far seems to be able to handle big game nerves, but this one is a step up. Charlie Hodgson is probably the likely kicker for England. A good club kicker but he's suffered from the jitters in international rugby before. Difficult to distill an advantage to either side, although at international level Weir is a complete unknown.

- Stuart Hogg. A young fullback on debut is always going to be severely tested and his performance will be absolutely key. Robinson may well go with Rory Lamont at 15, but form and performances this year all point to young Stuart Hogg. He's an exciting player with ball in hand and has shown no weakness in the tackle, but he's not a great kicker from ball in hand and Hodgson or Farrell will undoubtedly have instructions to give him a hard time.

I won't make a prediction until I see the teams, but the potential front five combinations for England give Scotland every chance.

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Post by mckay1402 Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:23 am

FES

I would love to see that team but I bet Parks will start. Cusiter has looked very sharp for Glasgow this season and will look forward to seeing him back in the team.
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Post by Geordie Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:38 am

I think its two key areas....

1) The front five...i hope to god we bring in Attwood or even the monster that is Garvey to give some power alongside Palmer...Botha should not be there....

2) The breakdown has been our achillies heel for sometime now...we need to nail that or it will be a difficult afternoon.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:43 am

mckay1402 wrote:FES

I would love to see that team but I bet Parks will start. Cusiter has looked very sharp for Glasgow this season and will look forward to seeing him back in the team.


I've been very supportive of Robinson and the work he has done, often with scraps coming from the pro sides. If he picks Parks for this 6 Nations, my support will evaporate. It would be an unforgivable decision.

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:45 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think its two key areas....

1) The front five...i hope to god we bring in Attwood or even the monster that is Garvey to give some power alongside Palmer...Botha should not be there....

2) The breakdown has been our achillies heel for sometime now...we need to nail that or it will be a difficult afternoon.
Geordie, did you see my question re bringing in Saxons players above - do you know the answer?

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Post by beshocked Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:53 am

FES that looks like a particularly strong Scottish pack.

It will be really interesting to see whether Brown targets his Sarries team mates. Some added spice for him.

Would be great if Kelly Brown got the Scottish captaincy for his 50th cap for Scotland.

Geordie Falcon I agree. Garvey's appearance would be welcome.

The proposed Scottish backline doesn't look that fearsome though. The England backs in my opinion will likely be the more talented.

England will certainly have the upperhand at 10 and 15 in my opinion.

The battles of the packs will be a hard fought contest though.


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Post by LondonTiger Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:15 am

ASBO,

Any player can be selected for the match day 23 - whether they are in the EPS, Saxons or no squad. However you have to assume that the players in the EPS are foremost in Lancaster's minds. That would mean that Palmer/Botha are frontrunners for the Second Row spot, but hopefully Parling or attwood can impress in training.

Midfield is a different issue - as Manu is the only OC in the EPS. With his injury Trinder has been elevated temporarily and must stand a good chance of playing.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:35 am

Beshocked - Brown is very much my choice for the captaincy. My only worry is that Robinson does something silly like play him at 8, and use Strokosch at 6. Doesn't maximise Brown's abilities for my money. We want him at 6 working his socks off, which is what he does best. He would allow a player like Denton the same sort of freedom that Brits and Joubert are allowed at Sarries.

Agreed on the Scottish backline. It's very much a work in progress, with the new crop of young and exciting backs still very much in training shoes and not yet ready, Weir and Hogg excepted. Sean Lamont is an effective 12 running with ball in hand but is a clumsy distributor, and Weir isn't a hugely creative influence at 10. I'm also not a fan of Rory Lamont as a winger, he doesn't have the required finesse or accelaration, and doesn't use his power as effectively as his brother. He's better running onto the ball from 15, but as noted above, Hogg deserves that slot and we're short of wingers due to injuries to Walker and Ansbro, and the loss in form of Danielli. If England play Barritt and Farrell in the centres, I think we'll struggle to find a way through. Barritt will negate Sean Lamont.

England have the better backs, I'm not going to dispute that, but I do think we'll edge the forwards contest, and depending on the conditions and the performances of young Weir and Hogg, that may do it for us. On the other hand if England get close to parity and Hodgson plays well, not sure I can see us winning.

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:59 am

LondonTiger wrote:ASBO,

Any player can be selected for the match day 23 - whether they are in the EPS, Saxons or no squad. However you have to assume that the players in the EPS are foremost in Lancaster's minds. That would mean that Palmer/Botha are frontrunners for the Second Row spot, but hopefully Parling or attwood can impress in training.

Midfield is a different issue - as Manu is the only OC in the EPS. With his injury Trinder has been elevated temporarily and must stand a good chance of playing.
OK, thanks, LT OK

Haven't Sarries been sending out a 10-12-13 of Hodgson-Barritt-Farrell, or did I imagine that? But I would imagine that Farrell is in the EPS as a 10/12? So maybe Trinder will get the nod at OC?

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:09 pm

Wood is now a doubt for this game which makes Croft and Robshaw pretty much garuinteed to start.,
If Flood, Tuilagi, and Lawes along with Deacon do miss out England can claim the injury card I guess. As thinsg stand though most of those are still in with a chance of playing and its only really 13 where its a struggle to see who will fill in properly.

Hodgson Farrel Barrit would be intersting, swapping over the Saracens combination. I guess in that case someone like JTH would be on the bench with Farrell covering Hodgson in the event of injury, no need for a speacilist 10 ( if Floods injured there isnt one in the squad anyway).
The weakness in that lineup would be a lack of ruinning threat form 10/12 but JTH on the becnh would give the opotion of a genuine plan B in that area, or even just swapping over Farrell Barrit back to their club lineup.

Still a lot of open questions about the makeup of the side pending these injuries.

I really think Scotland have a strong chance of turning England ove rin this game. They are likely to be disorganised and easily out off their own game, something Scotland are good at doing to them ove rthe last few years anway.
There will be a lot of nerveds for England, and a lack of established leaders. In that context the Saracens axis at 10 12 13 makes sense (assuming Flood Tuillagi do miss out) since these guys are very familiar with each other.
Upfront Englands pack is despertaly short of experience. Crofts inclussion over Wood in this case is a blessing, depsite many people having a hardon for the way Wood plays. Morgan and Robshaw would give a good solid physical presence up against the Scottish pack. Hartley and Plamer are other "hard yards" ball carrying options but England still lack a brute like SOB who can run through brick Walls and make Dan Hipkiss look easy to put down.
I hope Sharples gets the nod in the back 3. The second kicking option is always useful, especialy against a side like Scotland who may well look to play teritory and force mistakes form an nervy England. Foden Ashton and him together sounds a pretty dangerous counter attacking threat, just not sure how much ball theyll see from general play with the Saracens midfield in operation.

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Post by miteyironpaw Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:21 pm

C'mon PSW. England Saxons would have a good shout against the Scotts. Where's your confidence?
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Post by mckay1402 Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:41 pm

If Scotlands backs could learn to support the man making the break or half break they'd be dangerous. Quite often we get plenty of posession and make line breaks but there just isn't anyone on the shoulder to offload to or the forwards are too slow to the breakdown to recycle and get turned over. Very frustrating.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:48 pm

miteyironpaw wrote:C'mon PSW. England Saxons would have a good shout against the Scotts. Where's your confidence?

On paper theres no question England have the better players and should win. But I can garuntee the Scotts would rather face England first up under these circumstances at home than at any other time in the tournament. England have been notoriously bad in Scotland in recent times, and will be finding their feet. Poor weather will be a huge test for the new side.
Sure its bette rthan being away to France first up, but it is a real bana skin fixture. Its one the fans and players will feel they should be winning, which adds to the pressure.

Im one of teh biggest Scotland downtalkers on here, but Im not going to kid myself that England will just win by showing up with a squad like this. You dont win anything with kids Whistle

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Post by NeilyBroon Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:04 pm

To be quite honest I remember the last time a 'young' side came out and faced us in the form of Marc Lievremont's France and as I remember we got a sound beating. So you England fans need not worry too much about that, with this match I feel its more about who turns up on the day. If England turn up and Scotland don't, I really dread to think of the scoreline, if Scotland turn up and England don't it'll be a comfortable enough win for us (maybe 4-5 points the difference), although I fear given past experience with starting matches of the 6N that Scotland won't show up, although England have a habit of doing the same. So we'll see on that front. I think most likely its going to be a tight game, potentially quite stodgy too so I'm not sure how much the backs will come in on either side but even if Scotland lose, I'd rather see them lose and start putting more tries on the board than win by penalties.

I personally would like to see Andy Robinson perhaps take a punt and put Laidlaw at 10, he's playing in that position against Racing for Edinburgh this weekend and I'll be interested to see how he fares in Paris, although I'm under the impression that he can get a backline moving (I'm a Wasps supporter so don't pay as much attention to Edinburgh). In terms of our pack I feel thats pretty set, but I agree with previous posts that Kelly Brown should be kept at 6 and made captain, he really is an under-rated player and truly is a stalwart blindside! Haven't seen much of David Denton but I presume he's good. Backline, we're limited for choice, but I don't want to see Parks or Danielli, good to see that Ruridh is recovering quickly, I feel he's our best all-rounder.

Either way I really can't wait, going to the local British pub here in NY to watch the game and am really stoked whichever way it goes!! Although here's hoping Scotland finally pull their finger out (but not getting my hopes too high)! Very Happy

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:10 pm

Don't worry PSW - plenty of kids on the Scotland side.

Richie Gray - 22
David Denton - 21
Duncan Weir - 20
Stuart Hogg - 19

NeilyBroon - I'd also have no issue with Laidlaw at 10. My preference would be Weir, but Laidlaw would have strong merits to his selection as well. Critical pair of matches this weekend on which to assess them both.

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Post by miteyironpaw Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:10 pm

mckay1402 wrote:If Scotlands backs could learn to support the man making the break or half break they'd be dangerous. Quite often we get plenty of posession and make line breaks but there just isn't anyone on the shoulder to offload to or the forwards are too slow to the breakdown to recycle and get turned over. Very frustrating.

I'm not sure it's about players supporting the man, sometimes that's just physically impossible. I think the issue is more about guys playing as individuals. Some times when you see an opening you know taking it is wrong it your support has no chance of reaching you. It's partly about the attacking structure in engineering defensive gaps and being able to put a lot of players into them, and partly about having the fitness and mobility in the team to be able to change the point of attack with numbers in a coordinated way. Scotland suffer from lack of depth, they've got some very good individuals but not enough of them to create a cohesive attacking unit that can provide a structured defensive screen.

I've often thought Scotland play their best rugby in the last 10 minutes when they're hopelessly behind. Some of the individually brilliant players take opportunities, but it's no surprise that the half chances are rarely converted into points.

They'll miss their goal kicking legend who has made them competitive recently, and I can't see them posing a serious threat to anyone. I pick them for the wooden spoon unfortunately.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:13 pm

This is true. There have been more line breaks in the last season than previously however those breaks have tended to come from either Sean Lamont or Max Evans going off on an unplanned frolic. Can't fault the tireless Brown and Barclay for not being on the shoulder when that happens.

As noted above, our backs need to operate more as a cohesive unit, rather than a bunch of individual strike runners.

NZ always support their runners. That's not because their pack have super-human fitness levels and speed, it's because it's organised and cohesive.

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Post by NeilyBroon Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:34 pm

I do sometimes think the All Blacks are superhuman, must be something in the water in NZ!

I think part of the problem with the Scottish backs is this searching for a miracle pass all the time rather than doggedly going through phases. Admittedly as a fan it can get quite tiresome seeing them batter an unpassable wall but then, as said above, when they do go through the phases, there usually is a break and then no-ones there to support it. When the killer Bs were together they did some fantastic linking play (remember the Johnnie Beattie try against Ireland at Croke Park!) and we need to instill those kind of relationships in the squad. In fact I feel our forwards support each other well, its just the backs that are the problem, although I have to say Nick De Luca has become pretty competent looking for the man on his shoulder which is nice to see, perhaps we should hire his trainer for the national side!

The Saracens pods technique seems pretty effective, with men running in threes, so perhaps Scotland should look to that next.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:43 pm

With Townsend coaching I'm not convinced we have the requisite sophistication to try out new things or develop the sort of attacking patterns needed at international level.

Am very pleased we have Scott Johnson coming on board in the summer. Robinson coaching the forwards and Johnson looking after the backs sounds a pretty useful duo to me.

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Post by NeilyBroon Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:47 pm

I agree, I hope Johnson can bring a more fresh approach. To be honest I don't know why Robinson hasn't just let go of Townsend, it seems almost like he's trying to spare his feelings even after openly admitting they needed a coach with greater experience.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:52 pm

It's always an issue when you have a former legend on your coaching staff, particularly one who is popular with the players. No room for sentiment, he should go when Johnson arrives.

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Post by TycroesOsprey Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:52 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:With Townsend coaching I'm not convinced we have the requisite sophistication to try out new things or develop the sort of attacking patterns needed at international level.

Am very pleased we have Scott Johnson coming on board in the summer. Robinson coaching the forwards and Johnson looking after the backs sounds a pretty useful duo to me.

I would reserve judgement on Scott Johnson if I were you as an osprey and wales fan Im glad to see the back of him and hope he never crosses offas dyke again. Quite apart from the Mike Ruddock affair his record is not as good as you might think. read this article.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/01/11/comment-ospreys-must-find-big-hitter-to-replace-scott-johnson-91466-30097905/

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Post by NeilyBroon Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:59 pm

I must admit I am uncertain about Johnson, but I feel at the moment he'd be an improvement to our backstaff, and ultimately Andy Robinson is still in charge which is fine. I think he'll take us so far in the next two years then plateau when our attack finally improves. A downgrade in Welsh attack is an upgrade for Scotland, at this point in time I think any change in attack coaches will improve Scotland.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:21 pm

I don't rate Johnson as a head coach or a team manager, but I had always thought him a creative backs coach, which is exactly what we need. Andy Robinson will be the head coach and in charge or organising matters and picking the team, what we need is someone to make the backs click and work as a unit.

On that basis I think Johnson makes sense. I wouldn't want him in charge of the squad.

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Post by Scot Abroad Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:00 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:I agree, I hope Johnson can bring a more fresh approach. To be honest I don't know why Robinson hasn't just let go of Townsend, it seems almost like he's trying to spare his feelings even after openly admitting they needed a coach with greater experience.

I'm pretty sure Townsend's contract expires in June and rather than terminate it and pay him off they'll let it run it's course and not renew it.

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Post by Chjw131 Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:45 pm

I do think it'll be a very tough match for both sides. Scottish experience v English potential. What I would say about Scotland is that they've been unlucky with some results, and as we all know need to sharpen some focus onto their attack; something which AR perhaps is not the best man to take on.

What people I feel overlook about England at the moment is the unpredictability factor. It's risky for us, but also dangerous for the opposition coaching team and players. Who knows who's going to turn up, how they're going to play, how much freedom they'll have and how they'll work with new combinations. That, at the present moment is one of England's great strengths. AR particularly is an excellent student of the opposition, and picks weak points to target, here (particularly with Flood out) where does he start other than with broad generalities?!

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Post by miteyironpaw Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:46 pm

Chjw131 wrote:I do think it'll be a very tough match for both sides. Scottish experience v English potential. What I would say about Scotland is that they've been unlucky with some results, and as we all know need to sharpen some focus onto their attack; something which AR perhaps is not the best man to take on.

What people I feel overlook about England at the moment is the unpredictability factor. It's risky for us, but also dangerous for the opposition coaching team and players. Who knows who's going to turn up, how they're going to play, how much freedom they'll have and how they'll work with new combinations. That, at the present moment is one of England's great strengths. AR particularly is an excellent student of the opposition, and picks weak points to target, here (particularly with Flood out) where does he start other than with broad generalities?!

Chjw...are you saying there are too many weaknesses and that is our strength?
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Post by Alex_Germany Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:03 pm

Chjw131 wrote:

What people I feel overlook about England at the moment is the unpredictability factor. It's risky for us, but also dangerous for the opposition coaching team and players. Who knows who's going to turn up, how they're going to play, how much freedom they'll have and how they'll work with new combinations. That, at the present moment is one of England's great strengths. AR particularly is an excellent student of the opposition, and picks weak points to target, here (particularly with Flood out) where does he start other than with broad generalities?!

Quite often you get an individual in one of his early matches who suddenly makes everyone sit up and notice. Remember the first caps for Jonny Wilkinson, Josh Lewsey, Danny Cipriani, Chris Ashton, Manu Tuilagi? MOTM performances on their debut or shortly afterwards. But now were're going to have half a dozen of these.

Worth watching whatever.

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Post by bsando Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:30 pm

mckay1402 wrote:If Scotlands backs could learn to support the man making the break or half break they'd be dangerous. Quite often we get plenty of posession and make line breaks but there just isn't anyone on the shoulder to offload to or the forwards are too slow to the breakdown to recycle and get turned over. Very frustrating.

So true! I've been saying that for the last couple of years now. Lots of times the ball carrier never has support. Yet I also think that players who make line breaks quite often don't make the most of their opportunities either. Here's a couple of examples.. (Note* Parks in Wales game in links below played with really good variation which I think he has been lacking last year or so)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdQGMxKVnRw&feature=related#t=07m27s (this is a bit of surprise for Scotland but rory could have probably done better with the ball instead of kicking it straight)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdQGMxKVnRw&feature=related#t=08m33s (you feel beattie just needs one player to offload to and they're in.. although they do get a try via gruber kick if you keep watching)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCFuZA0kBAE#t=03m09s (I was at this match and i couldn't believe how a great opportunity like this could be wasted so well. no one is up to support, and vernon, who has so much space, runs straight into a SA player, injuring himself too. whhaaaa... ?????)

And here's an example of how you should support..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pDeFDuSiK0#t=06m07s

The minute the french players get a sniff at an opportunity they sprint up to support the ball carrier and score a beauty!




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