Who should coach the 2013 Lions?

by Pot Hale Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

John Feehan of the B & I Lions said that they will be appointing the coach for the Australian tour in April. The number of candidates is short - likely to be one of three Six Nations coaches - Kidney, Gatland or Robinson, with McGeechan as a possibility if they, or other candidates, don't come up to scratch. Whoever they pick, they have decreed cannot be involved in 6N 2013 - and the unions are backing this stance apparently. The England coach - Lancaster - is not in the running.

Gatland has the most experience - and that will count in their decision-making - and has publicly stated he wants to go.
Robinson also has some previous experience on his CV.
Kidney has none.

Opine.

by Goosestepper Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:20 am

Gatts wrote:Kidney?!!!!!!

Its the Lions not the Leprechauns

good man racist and ignorant in one short post

by Gatts Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:08 am

be jaysus racist...that's a big statement, i think you'll find it's you that is ignorant on the subject. Must be breakfast time in Sydney...go for a guiness, chill out and stop taking yourself so seriously thumbsup

by Goosestepper Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:47 am

i'm quite chilled thanks just don't understand why you wouldn't come back with a sensible post

I'm not a huge kidney fan but as far as I can make out he's done just as well as Gatland as an international coach in a shorter tenure. He also has a successful club record with CL and HC victories, so probably more significant silverware in the cabinet than Gatland.

Also head to head its played 4(?) 2 wins each. I'm not going into stats but i'd imagine that their overall stats as international coaches would weigh in favour of Kidney albeit he has a shorter tenure.

I'd concede that Gatland is a better coach and better rugby brain and the IRFU were stupid to let him go but I don't think he has the right temprament for head coach of the lions and what it takes to bring together a wide range of players and mould them into a team in a short time (and as its in Aus as it would just turn into a kiwi v aus slagging match)

I could easily see Kidney as head coach and WG as his assistant but who knows lots of water has to go under the bridge for that to happen.....

.....you big daffodil headed sheep shagger you! Wink

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:49 am

red_stag wrote:
Casartelli wrote:Lions is a dead concept nowadays.

I don't quite understand this. It seems to be getting bigger and bigger and bigger. It means a lot to the players, the TV companies love it, thousands of fans travel to the other side of the world to watch it.

Your not the first person to say it, but aside from a very badly run 2005 campaign, the Lions has generally been well received in modern times. 1997, 2001 and 2009 were all very popular tours for the TV, the fans, the players involved and the countries who hosted it.

I fail to see how it is a dead concept. It has gained a new lease of life.

Quite. Its mnore of a jounralists / pundit talking point that the reality suggests. It probably annoys the international coaches too, but for the players and fans both home and away its a huge event and very marketable.
Im sure if you were starting from scratch and designing a rugby calender it wouldnt exist, like teh VBarbarians, but its all part of teh rich history of rugby that makes it actually meaningful.

by propdavid_london Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:53 am

Why would lancaster not be considered?
If.... and that is a big if, England do well in the 6N off the back of Lancaster selecting a new team and getting them to gel after a few weeks together.
Then surely that is the formula that the Lions require!

I'm just saying that they are foolish to limit their options.
I would be happy with Gats or Geech.
No way to Kidney or Robinson.

by Goosestepper Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:56 am

propdavid_london wrote:Why would lancaster not be considered?
If.... and that is a big if, England do well in the 6N off the back of Lancaster selecting a new team and getting them to gel after a few weeks together.
Then surely that is the formula that the Lions require!

I'm just saying that they are foolish to limit their options.
I would be happy with Gats or Geech.
No way to Kidney or Robinson.

fair call on Lancaster don't think he'll have enough time though. Why no way Kidney, whats your reasoning...?

by red_stag Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:57 am

propdavid_london wrote:I'm just saying that they are foolish to limit their options.
I would be happy with Gats or Geech.
No way to Kidney or Robinson.

Bit of a contradiction there. What if Ireland win the 6 Nations?

by maestegmafia Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:03 am

Goosestepper wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:Why would lancaster not be considered?
If.... and that is a big if, England do well in the 6N off the back of Lancaster selecting a new team and getting them to gel after a few weeks together.
Then surely that is the formula that the Lions require!

I'm just saying that they are foolish to limit their options.
I would be happy with Gats or Geech.
No way to Kidney or Robinson.

fair call on Lancaster don't think he'll have enough time though. Why no way Kidney, whats your reasoning...?

I can understand why Robinson would be considered a poor choice after his England tenure and that he hasn't really done much with Scotland that previous coaches couldn't do.

Kidney, not sure what the beef is with him, good record good coach...! Be interested to hear why people don't rate him.

More so interested to hear why people do rate Lancaster and expect him to get England to where they were last 6 Nations?

by Goosestepper Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:09 am

yep, as I've said no big fan of Kidney but his style of team/man management seems far closer to Geech than any of the others.

Geech hasn't exactly set the world alight either as coach of Scotland or recently at Bath, where Kidney has more success at club/province than all of them put together. DK's record as an international stacks up well against the other the other home nations coach's (although thats not saying a whole lot unless you want to celebrate mediocrity!).

by Glas a du Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:17 am

A N Other, aka Dean Richards.

by propdavid_london Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:44 am

OK - yup, I've contradicted myself there.
I wouldt close the door on Kidney either.
He was great as a Munster coach, and is doing reasonably well as an international coach. But isnt a stand out coach 'at the moment'. He might get it right in the 6N and become a front runner - but for me, he isnt there yet.

Gats is there for recent good performances with Wales (and exp. with previous tour).
Geech has to go (he is the Lions tour). If not as head coach then in some other capacity.

by Rava Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:51 am

Does it have to be one of the current International coaches?

My choices would be Ian McGeeghan as manager and Conor O'Shea as coach.

by propdavid_london Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:52 am

I think Lions management have said that the Head coach will likely be selected form the Home Nations coaching set-ups.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:09 pm

propdavid_london wrote:I think Lions management have said that the Head coach will likely be selected form the Home Nations coaching set-ups.

But haven't they also said they wanted the coach to be free for the year, so that would tie up Home Nation coaches.

by Sin é Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:53 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:I think Lions management have said that the Head coach will likely be selected form the Home Nations coaching set-ups.

But haven't they also said they wanted the coach to be free for the year, so that would tie up Home Nation coaches.

I think its just the 6Ns (& obviously summer tour) that he will have to miss.

by red_stag Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:55 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:I think Lions management have said that the Head coach will likely be selected form the Home Nations coaching set-ups.

But haven't they also said they wanted the coach to be free for the year, so that would tie up Home Nation coaches.

But that would mean that only unemployed people could get the job.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:00 pm

Well I might fit the bill by then stag Wink

Where do I apply

by kiakahaaotearoa Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:01 pm

Outside bet for Graham Henry to come out of retirement and get the only silverware to elude him. He certainly knows how to beat Australia...

by Comfort Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:02 pm

red_stag wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:I think Lions management have said that the Head coach will likely be selected form the Home Nations coaching set-ups.

But haven't they also said they wanted the coach to be free for the year, so that would tie up Home Nation coaches.

But that would mean that only unemployed people could get the job.

Dean Richards.....

by Rava Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:26 pm

Comfort wrote:
red_stag wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:I think Lions management have said that the Head coach will likely be selected form the Home Nations coaching set-ups.

But haven't they also said they wanted the coach to be free for the year, so that would tie up Home Nation coaches.

But that would mean that only unemployed people could get the job.

Dean Richards.....

Is he not in line for the top job at Rugby Lions when his suspension is up?

by bedfordwelsh Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:44 pm

Sin é wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:I think Lions management have said that the Head coach will likely be selected form the Home Nations coaching set-ups.

But haven't they also said they wanted the coach to be free for the year, so that would tie up Home Nation coaches.

I think its just the 6Ns (& obviously summer tour) that he will have to miss.

But would a Union (whichever one) be happy for that, would they be compensated at all.

by Sin é Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:51 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Sin é wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:I think Lions management have said that the Head coach will likely be selected form the Home Nations coaching set-ups.

But haven't they also said they wanted the coach to be free for the year, so that would tie up Home Nation coaches.

I think its just the 6Ns (& obviously summer tour) that he will have to miss.

But would a Union (whichever one) be happy for that, would they be compensated at all.

They are compensated. The Lions is 'owned' by the 4 unions - last time out, each Union got 1m each, so its worth their while. The Lions coach is also selected/interviewed by a representative of each of the 4 Unions.

The IRFU might not be so keen on Gatts, bearing in mind they didn't renew his contract and he is always making snide remarks about them Smile

by SecretFly Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:54 pm

If Kidney got it (a remote possibility given that English and even Welsh fans think Conor O'Shea is better...!!! I can hear Jack Palance in Shane saying "Prove it") But if he did get it, no, I wouldn't be happy. Ireland have too much consolidation to be getting on with before the next WC. We have to be selfish and I'd even say it's time for Scotland and England to carry the bulk of the Lions squad.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:05 pm

Surely Martin Johnston - what an almighty pi$$ up that would be - for the players natch Ale

by thebandwagonsociety Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:56 pm

It is a short term job so whatever the set up, the coach needs to;
- build a great team spirit across the full squad
- put in place fundamentals in a short space of time
- deal with a huge level of media interaction/manipulation/controversy
- deliver good rugby
- keep everything in control (but have the players feeling relaxed)

Kidney and Richards could easily do this. They would also give responsibility to their assistants to get the best set pieces, great breakdown work, solid defense and a free licence (baa-baa's style) attacking philosophy. I'd personally like one of these 2. And my AN Other vote is for Richards.

Gatland/Johnson/Robinson - I'd see the tour becoming a pressure cooker.

Interesting calls would be Lancaster (don't know much about him), O'Shea (history of quickly turning around clubs, so could infer he would do well in a short Lions tour timeline) or possibly Mike Ruddock (currently involved for the underage levels in the IRFU).

Some people on here talking about the Lions not being important. I'd argue that plenty of Irish players have gone off on Lions tours, experienced playing with the best of the home nations and come back far better players, with more confidence in their own ability and also realising that the other countries are no better than them. BOD, POC, DOC, Bowe, Earls, Ferris have all benefited from being on a Lions Tour.

by Glas a du Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:05 pm

Rava wrote:
Comfort wrote:
red_stag wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:I think Lions management have said that the Head coach will likely be selected form the Home Nations coaching set-ups.

But haven't they also said they wanted the coach to be free for the year, so that would tie up Home Nation coaches.

But that would mean that only unemployed people could get the job.

Dean Richards.....

Is he not in line for the top job at Rugby Lions when his suspension is up?

It says should not will.

by Feckless Rogue Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:34 pm

Henry had is chance and lost a series to Australia, which I think we should have won.

I would have went for Johnson with a strong team of coaches, but surely the World Cup problems rule him out.

Head coach - depends on 6 Nations
Defence coach - Edwards
Forwards coach - Robinson
Attack coach - Schmidt
Head of mouthing off and annoying the Australians - Gatland

by kiakahaaotearoa Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:23 pm

Henry had his chance in 2007 and got another in 2011. Sometimes you learn from your mistakes Feckless. He changed as a coach as well as a person since the last Aussie tour. I do agree though that a chance went begging though then.

I wonder why the Lions don´t take some advisors from SA or NZ for this coming series. Not saying they should be the head coach but I don't see any harm in allowing in people with the best knowledge of playing against Australia. For me there's no loyalty clash as you're always keen to see your rivals get undone.

by SecretFly Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:40 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Some people on here talking about the Lions not being important. I'd argue that plenty of Irish players have gone off on Lions tours, experienced playing with the best of the home nations and come back far better players, with more confidence in their own ability and also realising that the other countries are no better than them. BOD, POC, DOC, Bowe, Earls, Ferris have all benefited from being on a Lions Tour.

The Lions IS important. Certainly for players who are picked. Not taking that feeling or the desire to be part of it away from them at all. Long may it continue in real terms. Good fun.

My opinion is that I'd personally prefer the reputations of Irish players to be built up on what they do in an Irish shirt - and I DO mean in a World context (not muttering small mindedly about small town success in Europe) - a worldwide reputation built on Irish performances.

All too often, the tagline is; "He's a good player but was he picked for the Lions" I'd prefer a period in history when that idea of The Lions became obsolete. No, not against the heritage, the feelings of oneness, the lovely trips and exotic places or it's continued existence. But the idea that a collection of English, Irish, Welsh and Scots have to combine to put up a fight to one of the big three downunder does sit uneasily with me, I'll admit it. Lose the series and it's an embarrassment; media head-hunters are out in force and individual players are picked out of the 'United We Stand' line up, told what they've done wrong and pointedly told which of the Nations they belong to. Win a series and the SH opposition snigger "Yeah, and it needed all of you to do it".

Indeed, I think our Lions have become more a competition amongst the SH sides themselves. The game is between them, "They didn't get us. Over to you, let's see you keep our SH clean sheet"

I'm just not excessively sentimental about The Lions, never have been.

by thebandwagonsociety Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:45 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Henry had his chance in 2007 and got another in 2011. Sometimes you learn from your mistakes Feckless. He changed as a coach as well as a person since the last Aussie tour. I do agree though that a chance went begging though then.

I wonder why the Lions don´t take some advisors from SA or NZ for this coming series. Not saying they should be the head coach but I don't see any harm in allowing in people with the best knowledge of playing against Australia. For me there's no loyalty clash as you're always keen to see your rivals get undone.

I definitely agree with your second part of your post. From an SA/NZ point of view, seeing the Ozzies lose is nice to see. The Lions winning a tour, while it isn't the be-all and end-all of a Lions Tour, would increase the marketability of the trips, generate keener interest for the following tour which helps SA/NZ in the medium and longer term when their turn to host comes around.

My question, though maybe not the best place for it on this thread....... Should it go to Argentina after the Ozzie Tour? I'd say yes. Argentina would have a couple of 4Ns (or insert name here comp) behind them at that stage and I see plenty of upside of a Tour heading to South America.

by Feckless Rogue Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:52 pm

kiakahaaotearoa, good points actually. You've made me warmer to the idea.

band, I think most rugby fans would agree with you that a Lions tour to Argentina would be brilliant.

1. It would be fresh and new.
2. It would raise the profile of rugby in a rugby nation that has plenty of room to grow.
3. The passion of the Argentinians is undeniable.
4. The Lions might actually win. Very Happy

by thebandwagonsociety Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Some people on here talking about the Lions not being important. I'd argue that plenty of Irish players have gone off on Lions tours, experienced playing with the best of the home nations and come back far better players, with more confidence in their own ability and also realising that the other countries are no better than them. BOD, POC, DOC, Bowe, Earls, Ferris have all benefited from being on a Lions Tour.

The Lions IS important. Certainly for players who are picked. Not taking that feeling or the desire to be part of it away from them at all. Long may it continue in real terms. Good fun.

My opinion is that I'd personally prefer the reputations of Irish players to be built up on what they do in an Irish shirt - and I DO mean in a World context (not muttering small mindedly about small town success in Europe) - a worldwide reputation built on Irish performances.

All too often, the tagline is; "He's a good player but was he picked for the Lions" I'd prefer a period in history when that idea of The Lions became obsolete. No, not against the heritage, the feelings of oneness, the lovely trips and exotic places or it's continued existence. But the idea that a collection of English, Irish, Welsh and Scots have to combine to put up a fight to one of the big three downunder does sit uneasily with me, I'll admit it. Lose the series and it's an embarrassment; media head-hunters are out in force and individual players are picked out of the 'United We Stand' line up, told what they've done wrong and pointedly told which of the Nations they belong to. Win a series and the SH opposition snigger "Yeah, and it needed all of you to do it".

Indeed, I think our Lions have become more a competition amongst the SH sides themselves. The game is between them, "They didn't get us. Over to you, let's see you keep our SH clean sheet"

I'm just not excessively sentimental about The Lions, never have been.

Its a good goal, and one I'd agree with you. But I wouldn't agree that you need to get rid of the Lions to make that transition. Both things should be achievable. Ireland has come along way, we were always the wooden spoon favourites going back decades. Professionalism gave our teams a decent structure to prepare through. Then the likes of the Keith Woods started looking around saying, hey guys we should be looking to win these games, not live with the 'plucky' complements. The next generation took it to another level and have won plenty at provincial level and 1 GS. The next crop have to win 6Ns more regularly and start getting consistent results (no small task).
But Lions isn't a format that has kept down Irish players, if anything, up till this last generation it was the only platform where the few elite Irish players could really standout and excel.

by kiakahaaotearoa Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:34 pm

Argentina is a good shout but they need to be at the back of the Lions queue in my opinion to grow the game professionally there and to give them time to adjust to the 4N.

If the Lions did win the series next year I think that would turn a lot of the nay-sayers around. Let's face it, 2005 was a disaster, 2009 revived the product and a win in 2013 would see Lions shirt sales go through the roof and eclipse individual nation shirt sales. Who wouldn't want to be a part of that?

by KickAndChase Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:14 pm

Steven Shingler?

by IanBru Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:29 pm

Afraid not, Kick and Chase, since Shingler's already a shoe in for the Republican presidential nomination.

by mystiroakey Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:55 am

SecretFly wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Some people on here talking about the Lions not being important. I'd argue that plenty of Irish players have gone off on Lions tours, experienced playing with the best of the home nations and come back far better players, with more confidence in their own ability and also realising that the other countries are no better than them. BOD, POC, DOC, Bowe, Earls, Ferris have all benefited from being on a Lions Tour.

The Lions IS important. Certainly for players who are picked. Not taking that feeling or the desire to be part of it away from them at all. Long may it continue in real terms. Good fun.

My opinion is that I'd personally prefer the reputations of Irish players to be built up on what they do in an Irish shirt - and I DO mean in a World context (not muttering small mindedly about small town success in Europe) - a worldwide reputation built on Irish performances.

All too often, the tagline is; "He's a good player but was he picked for the Lions" I'd prefer a period in history when that idea of The Lions became obsolete. No, not against the heritage, the feelings of oneness, the lovely trips and exotic places or it's continued existence. But the idea that a collection of English, Irish, Welsh and Scots have to combine to put up a fight to one of the big three downunder does sit uneasily with me, I'll admit it. Lose the series and it's an embarrassment; media head-hunters are out in force and individual players are picked out of the 'United We Stand' line up, told what they've done wrong and pointedly told which of the Nations they belong to. Win a series and the SH opposition snigger "Yeah, and it needed all of you to do it".

Indeed, I think our Lions have become more a competition amongst the SH sides themselves. The game is between them, "They didn't get us. Over to you, let's see you keep our SH clean sheet"

I'm just not excessively sentimental about The Lions, never have been.

totally agree i am english and i cant see the gain for this type of tournament anymore- it seems like in the long run its only good for fans-forums( love a pick your 6n's topic) or a nice jolly down under together.

the 6n's isnt good for our european national sides and its almost humbling the fact we cant even beat them combined- however its great practise for the sh sides that play us

by yappysnap Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:22 am

Joe Schmidt
Connor O'Shea
Graham Rowntree

by thomh Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:33 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:My question, though maybe not the best place for it on this thread....... Should it go to Argentina after the Ozzie Tour? I'd say yes. Argentina would have a couple of 4Ns (or insert name here comp) behind them at that stage and I see plenty of upside of a Tour heading to South America.

I'd say that Argentina aren't marketable enough yet for a Lions tour, but a few years in the Four Nations could see them improve a lot.

I'd hoped that they would make pre-tour test matches against less prestigious teams more of a regular thing, though. When I saw that the Lions have planned a game in Hong Kong on their way to Australia next year I was hoping it would be against a side like Samoa or Argentina. Unfortunately it's against the Barbarians - an old rugby institution that unfortunately does now seem to be past its best.

by formerly known as Sam Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:56 pm

Unfortunately it's against the Barbarians - an old rugby institution that unfortunately does now seem to be past its best

If the Baabaas team is the best of the SH minus Oz then that could be a really fun game to watch so long as the players buy into the game.

I really don't know who I want to manage the Lions Tour. I think maybe a coach who doesn't represent one of the home nations and won't be constrained by club demands at the same time.

by Gatts Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:01 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Some people on here talking about the Lions not being important. I'd argue that plenty of Irish players have gone off on Lions tours, experienced playing with the best of the home nations and come back far better players, with more confidence in their own ability and also realising that the other countries are no better than them. BOD, POC, DOC, Bowe, Earls, Ferris have all benefited from being on a Lions Tour.

The Lions IS important. Certainly for players who are picked. Not taking that feeling or the desire to be part of it away from them at all. Long may it continue in real terms. Good fun.

My opinion is that I'd personally prefer the reputations of Irish players to be built up on what they do in an Irish shirt - and I DO mean in a World context (not muttering small mindedly about small town success in Europe) - a worldwide reputation built on Irish performances.

All too often, the tagline is; "He's a good player but was he picked for the Lions" I'd prefer a period in history when that idea of The Lions became obsolete. No, not against the heritage, the feelings of oneness, the lovely trips and exotic places or it's continued existence. But the idea that a collection of English, Irish, Welsh and Scots have to combine to put up a fight to one of the big three downunder does sit uneasily with me, I'll admit it. Lose the series and it's an embarrassment; media head-hunters are out in force and individual players are picked out of the 'United We Stand' line up, told what they've done wrong and pointedly told which of the Nations they belong to. Win a series and the SH opposition snigger "Yeah, and it needed all of you to do it".

Indeed, I think our Lions have become more a competition amongst the SH sides themselves. The game is between them, "They didn't get us. Over to you, let's see you keep our SH clean sheet"

I'm just not excessively sentimental about The Lions, never have been.

totally agree i am english and i cant see the gain for this type of tournament anymore- it seems like in the long run its only good for fans-forums( love a pick your 6n's topic) or a nice jolly down under together.

the 6n's isnt good for our european national sides and its almost humbling the fact we cant even beat them combined- however its great practise for the sh sides that play us

Lions mean nothing to you because you have no rugby background! Lions is the epitome of rugby to anyone who really loves the game.

by SecretFly Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:12 pm

To me or to Mystiroakey?

by Gatts Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:14 pm

If the cap fits, but no on this occasion it was directed at oakey who has no concept of what the Lions represents to true fans of the game

by **George Carlin** Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:19 pm

I wonder if Henry or McQueen would do it....

by Gatts Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:20 pm

I am almost certain it will be Johnson...if so i may boycott it.

by mystiroakey Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:41 pm

a true fan that is gonna boycoott the lions because a true legend and world cup winner (but from england) will coach it!! lol

check this joke out gatts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rojJgcPBpSM

by mystiroakey Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:42 pm

mystiroakey wrote:a true fan that is gonna boycoott the lions because a true legend and world cup winner (but from england) will coach it!! lol

check this joke out gatts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rojJgcPBpSM

smion evans at edinbough festival- classic delivery

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