Favourite Heavyweight Champions of All Time

First topic message reminder :

This is a simple excercise really just to rank the top heavyweight champions in order of preference. Many people pore over ranking fighters in terms of greatness but this is just a more lighthearted excercise to see who the most popular are out of curiosity. Ive listed 25 heavyweight champions below. Ive limited to 25 for the sake of simplicity and exluded any non title winning heavyweights and most of the alphabet soup heavyweights. I would say the 25 on the list would broadly be what most people would have in their top 25 champions with one or two absentees like Sharkey and Baer perhaps as well as some of the less prolific ones like Johanson and Hart. So what order would you rank them in terms of preference?

Joe Louis
Muhammad Ali
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Rocky Marciano
Larry Holmes
James J. Jeffries
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Joe Frazier
Gene Tunney
Lennox Lewis
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
W Klitschko
V Klitschko
Jersey Joe Walcott
Ezzard Charles
Mac Schmelling
Riddick Bowe
Ken Norton
James J. Corbett
Bob Fitzsimmons
John L Sullivan
Floyd Patterson

azania wrote:Waingro has a point. He has become an object of gang mentality and ridicule. He is entitled to his opinions however far out they may be. Its all about opinions folks. Like rear ends we all have one.

Are his opinions that way off? I mean some think a certain undefeated HW boxer was actually good. Far be it for me to debate that matter.
Leave the Gro alone.

Stay Waingro. Your opinions are just as valid as undeucated posters like Windy, Oxy, rowley, manos, Capt C, Ghosty and most others who post here.

You didn't see the comment, so your opinion is not informed. If it were a question of opinion I should have left it. It was not. It was factually inaccurate and libellous.

Do you believe I'm so small minded as to 'gang up' on a member? It would be about forty five years too late for me to indulge in such trivia.

superflyweight wrote:

azania wrote:In no particular order

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Tyson
4. Dempsey
5. Johnson
6. Frazier
7. Foreman
8. Louis
9. Liston
10. Witherspoon
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998 - Rocky M
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1002. Patterson

Why four spaces between 998 and 1002, Az. You got someone in joint 1000th place?

999 - Akinwande
1000 - Gerrie Coetzee
1001 - Audley (WBF Champ).

1. Louis
2. Jeffries
3. Dempsey
4. Marciano
5. Tunney
6. Fitzsimmons
7. Sullivan
8. Ali
9. Frazier
10. Foreman
11. Corbett
12. Schmeling
13. Charles
14. Liston
15. Patterson
16. Holyfield
17. Walcott
18. Norton
19. Lewis
20. Johnson
21. Tyson
22. Bowe
23. Holmes
24. V Klitschko
25. W Klitschko

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:Waingro has a point. He has become an object of gang mentality and ridicule. He is entitled to his opinions however far out they may be. Its all about opinions folks. Like rear ends we all have one.

Are his opinions that way off? I mean some think a certain undefeated HW boxer was actually good. Far be it for me to debate that matter.
Leave the Gro alone.

Stay Waingro. Your opinions are just as valid as undeucated posters like Windy, Oxy, rowley, manos, Capt C, Ghosty and most others who post here.

You didn't see the comment, so your opinion is not informed. If it were a question of opinion I should have left it. It was not. It was factually inaccurate and libellous.

Do you believe I'm so small minded as to 'gang up' on a member? It would be about forty five years too late for me to indulge in such trivia.

Of course my opinion was uninformed. When is it ever informed

Lighten up windy. Just pulling yer legs (and the artificial one).

Even the artificial one hurts, these days, az.

C'est la vie.

If waingro leaves/gets banned I'll start an online petition to Free the 'Gro.

Let's hope that somebody will do the same for you, then.

azania wrote:If waingro leaves/gets banned I'll start an online petition to Free the 'Gro.

Im sure the petition will wain.

azania wrote:If waingro leaves/gets banned I'll start an online petition to Free the 'Gro.

Worried there will be nobody on here with even more ill informed opinions on old timers than yourself Az?

Waingro is like an attractive woman...

Annoying and stupid most of the time, but every now and then they entertain you (albeit in very different ways).

ShahenshahG wrote:Its because theres no rhyme or reason as to why you dislike em. Just daft suppositions without any idea of what you are saying. What has dempsey done wrong that you dislike him rather than Haye. Honest, Courageous, Courteous vs brash, fraud who doesnt back up his words? Superior boxer vs inferior boxer. Its better to keep your mouth shut (about things you know nothing about) and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

Thank god this is only for fun. Imagine the level of vitriol if it was a serious thread!!

azania wrote:If waingro leaves/gets banned I'll start an online petition to Free the 'Gro.

Technically, you will need more than one signature to make it a petition. This would be more like a request or plea for insanity to be taken into account

ShahenshahG wrote:Top hat. Had Vitali Lewis skills, he might have been the greatest heavy ever - he intelligent and makes the best of what hes got - but when he needs to impose himself he does so - I suppose mostly on his courage in that Lewis fight and the ease with which he manouvered around Sanders who is if nothing else a serius puncher. Lewis is the opposite - he imposed himself far too little when he could have done it all. Wlad is unfortunate in that he had an exciting style but lacks the chin of his brother and had to adapt to a safety first approach but watch his earlier fights, Mercer for example and a few others. Jab, Jab into hook, Right Cross. Brilliant to watch.

Thanks Shah, as I say, wasn't trying to be picky, just curious. See your point on Vit-Lewis, though I respectfully disagree about Wlad still. No issue with having in a top-25 of all time list but I really struggle to find him that likeable, nothing interesting or edgey about him, and even his pre-getting splattered fights weren't all that entertaining for me. His and his brother's approach to dominating the HW division also leaves a slightly sour taste in my mouth so he falls further down the list for me for that also.

Mine in order would be:

1.Foreman
2.Louis
3.Ali
4.Tunney
5.Marciano
6.Tyson
7.Frazier
8.Lewis
9.Schmelling
10.Sullivan
11.Jeffries
12. Dempsey
13.Charles
14.V Klitschko
15.W Klitschko
16.Bowe
17.Fitzsimmons
18.Holmes
19. Patterson
20. Norton
21. Walcott
22. Holyfield
23. Liston
24. Corbett
25. Johnson

My disgust at the absence of Peter Jackson in this list borders on that which many posters appear to have for Waingro.

Sullivan in at number ten and yet he shamelessly avoid Jackson knowing full well that the Black Prince would have handed him his rear end and made him say "thank you" for the honour.

Pfft and Pshawww....I'm voting for Joe Mesi instead!

DAVE667 wrote:My disgust at the absence of Peter Jackson in this list borders on that which many posters appear to have for Waingro.

Sullivan in at number ten and yet he shamelessly avoid Jackson knowing full well that the Black Prince would have handed him his rear end and made him say "thank you" for the honour.

Pfft and Pshawww....I'm voting for Joe Mesi instead!

Matt Skelton > Peter Jackson

DAVE667 wrote:My disgust at the absence of Peter Jackson in this list borders on that which many posters appear to have for Waingro.

Sullivan in at number ten and yet he shamelessly avoid Jackson knowing full well that the Black Prince would have handed him his rear end and made him say "thank you" for the honour.

Pfft and Pshawww....I'm voting for Joe Mesi instead!

Suspect the word champions in the title may be somewhat instructive in explaining his exclusion Dave.

rowley wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:My disgust at the absence of Peter Jackson in this list borders on that which many posters appear to have for Waingro.

Sullivan in at number ten and yet he shamelessly avoid Jackson knowing full well that the Black Prince would have handed him his rear end and made him say "thank you" for the honour.

Pfft and Pshawww....I'm voting for Joe Mesi instead!

Suspect the word champions in the title may be somewhat instructive in explaining his exclusion Dave.

He was 'coloured' heavyweight champion, wasn't he?

And Audley was WBF, shall we include him?

azania wrote:Stay Waingro. Your opinions are just as valid as undeucated posters like Windy, Oxy, rowley, manos, Capt C, Ghosty and most others who post here.

Post of the year az, I salute you sir.

In no certain specific order (as they switch around with the comings of the seasons) - Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier, Foreman, Holyfield, Vitali all gain special mention.

rowley wrote:And Audley was WBF, shall we include him?

If you like. Not bothered either way, it was you that kicked up a fuss.

It was Dave.

rowley wrote:It was Dave.

My apologies, I tend to lump all you Yorkshire people in the same bracket.

rowley wrote:And Audley was WBF, shall we include him?

I did. Just below Rocky and ahead of Petterson. Number 1001 I believe.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

rowley wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:My disgust at the absence of Peter Jackson in this list borders on that which many posters appear to have for Waingro.

Sullivan in at number ten and yet he shamelessly avoid Jackson knowing full well that the Black Prince would have handed him his rear end and made him say "thank you" for the honour.

Pfft and Pshawww....I'm voting for Joe Mesi instead!

Suspect the word champions in the title may be somewhat instructive in explaining his exclusion Dave.

He was 'coloured' heavyweight champion, wasn't he?

He was also Australian and Empire HW Champion...therefore his inclusion in the HW CHampion list is warranted

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:Stay Waingro. Your opinions are just as valid as undeucated posters like Windy, Oxy, rowley, manos, Capt C, Ghosty and most others who post here.

Post of the year az, I salute you sir.

In no certain specific order (as they switch around with the comings of the seasons) - Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier, Foreman, Holyfield, Vitali all gain special mention.

My pleasure. I'm here to help you all with your limited knowledge of the science of boxing.

The list also includes Ken Norton who never actually WON a world title fight so let's discount him as well

DAVE667 wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

rowley wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:My disgust at the absence of Peter Jackson in this list borders on that which many posters appear to have for Waingro.

Sullivan in at number ten and yet he shamelessly avoid Jackson knowing full well that the Black Prince would have handed him his rear end and made him say "thank you" for the honour.

Pfft and Pshawww....I'm voting for Joe Mesi instead!

Suspect the word champions in the title may be somewhat instructive in explaining his exclusion Dave.

He was 'coloured' heavyweight champion, wasn't he?

He was also Australian and Empire HW Champion...therefore his inclusion in the HW CHampion list is warranted

I agree, David. It was jeff who patronised you. He's an 'orrible man.

And yet you just called me DAVID...which isn't even my name. Oh, the insults keep flying in don't they? Anyway, off home now. I look forward to seeing the AMENDED list (including Jackson) at some stage

DAVE667 wrote:The list also includes Ken Norton who never actually WON a world title fight so let's discount him as well

He held a world title though.

I used to have Holyfield quite high up, but having read his autobiography and the smoke created from the Evan Fields debacle hes kind of slid down my list quite alot over the years when he used to be very high up.

Do you think Lewis' victory over Golota is diminished in light of revelations about the drug he took and subsequent fine from ibf?

ShahenshahG wrote:Do you think Lewis' victory over Golota is diminished in light of revelations about the drug he took and subsequent fine from ibf?

Pretty much. Golota was a bit of a nut case anyway but clearly he was all over the place before and after that fight. Didnt he have some kind of epileptic fit in the locker room?

The other way of looking at it if you want to be a glass half full kind of guy is Lewis realised Golota was a bit all over the place and likely to crumble if you pounced on him and tailored his tactics accordingly.

Yeah - he took the drug to prevent inflammation in his knee - or the doc administered it - apparently it made him dizzy and gave him blurry vision - then I heard about the fit quite recently. Really strange how that wasn't much known about.

rowley wrote:The other way of looking at it if you want to be a glass half full kind of guy is Lewis realised Golota was a bit all over the place and likely to crumble if you pounced on him and tailored his tactics accordingly.

I think Lewis would have won no matter what but Golota was a pretty hit and miss fighter and Lewis caught him on a definate miss when he was struggling with injury and God knows what else.

Would tend to agree, the edge in class and obviously the more stable mental state were all with Lewis, pity with golota though because on the rare occasions he could put things together he did not look devoid of talent.

Think he could have been something special. Just was a bit of a nut.

Difficult to tell with Golota. He came up short so often in all his big fights for a multitude of reasons ranging from low blows to strange injuries to seemingly just quitting. A list of excuses a mile long and often inexplicable.

stuggle at the best of times to name my top ten greatest let alone my favourites. i'll do a 5

1. foreman
2. ali
3. lewis
4. louis
5. dempsey

some really great fighters i loved to watch but there personailitys let them down. love watching frazier but his bitter nature to ali was disappointing, similar with holmes. then theres tyson who was great to watch but abit of a d1ck, also tyson fans generally make me hate the guy even more

manos de piedra wrote:Difficult to tell with Golota. He came up short so often in all his big fights for a multitude of reasons ranging from low blows to strange injuries to seemingly just quitting. A list of excuses a mile long and often inexplicable.

How do you see a Golota vs Haye fight going?

I don't think he was managed very well or trained. Duva seems to encourage his fighters recklessness,panics a little under pressure and doesn't cop any of the flak. A cool head at the corner might have gotten him a little focused. Unlikely, but maybe.

Duva of all the high profile trainers does seem the worst by a mile, gives terrible advice (Taylor vs Chavez), is a hysterical wreck (that big south african heavyweight) and just seems complete idiot (his whole career).

1. Tunney
2. Fitzsimmons
3. Lewis
4. Marciano
5. Foreman
6. Dempsey
7. Frazier
8. Norton
9. Louis
10. Charles

I'm fairly intrigued as to what 'gro said now although if it's resulted in him leaving the board then every cloud and all that.

manos de piedra wrote:I used to have Holyfield quite high up, but having read his autobiography and the smoke created from the Evan Fields debacle hes kind of slid down my list quite alot over the years when he used to be very high up.

I must be one of the few human beings on earth who read that autobiography and liked Holyfield more at the end than at the beginning. I did find it entertaining and interesting - although not enough about his fights and incredible glossing over of a new woman popping up and child popping out every couple of pages.

Evan Fields is a tricky one. They took Sugar Shane to a grand jury to testify over his drugs use - yet with Evander we've the smoke - and his denial.

Now I know there's the phrase - "no smoke without fire" - but its frequently maligned and misused. If the Leveson enquiry has taught us anything, its that smoke can be imagined where no fire existed, or indeed could exist.

The evidence against Evander seems pretty pathetic. Evan Fields sounds like Evander Holyfield. It does, very true. His phone number was attached to the name, Evan Fields.

So the case, for the proposition seems to be, that this (former) darling of the US boxing scene, vanquisher of Mike Tyson, with a squeaky clean image and a "100% me" stance (remember the drugs test fiasco before the Tyson fight?) walks into a supplements shop, orders some steroids. Realises that his own name is a dead giveaway - so goes to the much more subtle, Evan Fields. And leaves his mobile number, just in case.

I appreciate that boxers aren't always the brightest sparks, but this would rely upon a level of stupidity I can't begin to fathom.

Especially when you can buy, in the gym, anonymously in the locker room after a weights session [REF: The man whose arms exploded]

As a postscript - if you haven't seen the man whose arms exploded - you should - its available on youtube (part 1 here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pU3E8DuLZw).

What's the Evan Field story? Was this prior to the Tyson fight?

I remember a body builder friend of mine who swears blind that Holy is on the gear as he called it.

oxring wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:I used to have Holyfield quite high up, but having read his autobiography and the smoke created from the Evan Fields debacle hes kind of slid down my list quite alot over the years when he used to be very high up.

I must be one of the few human beings on earth who read that autobiography and liked Holyfield more at the end than at the beginning. I did find it entertaining and interesting - although not enough about his fights and incredible glossing over of a new woman popping up and child popping out every couple of pages.

Evan Fields is a tricky one. They took Sugar Shane to a grand jury to testify over his drugs use - yet with Evander we've the smoke - and his denial.

Now I know there's the phrase - "no smoke without fire" - but its frequently maligned and misused. If the Leveson enquiry has taught us anything, its that smoke can be imagined where no fire existed, or indeed could exist.

The evidence against Evander seems pretty pathetic. Evan Fields sounds like Evander Holyfield. It does, very true. His phone number was attached to the name, Evan Fields.

So the case, for the proposition seems to be, that this (former) darling of the US boxing scene, vanquisher of Mike Tyson, with a squeaky clean image and a "100% me" stance (remember the drugs test fiasco before the Tyson fight?) walks into a supplements shop, orders some steroids. Realises that his own name is a dead giveaway - so goes to the much more subtle, Evan Fields. And leaves his mobile number, just in case.

I appreciate that boxers aren't always the brightest sparks, but this would rely upon a level of stupidity I can't begin to fathom.

Especially when you can buy, in the gym, anonymously in the locker room after a weights session [REF: The man whose arms exploded]

As a postscript - if you haven't seen the man whose arms exploded - you should - its available on youtube (part 1 here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pU3E8DuLZw).

Im probably being harsh on Evander to be fair, but theres something about bringing God, and Gods will and everything is thanks to God that basially eminates from every chapter that really bugged me. Nothing it seemed was ever actually down to the fighters in question. It was God that did everything, God threw the punches, God picked up the injuries, God told him who to marry, God told him who to divorce and so on. I never really like when religious issues are pushed to the fore in sport and Holyfield just cant avoid it. As Lewis pointed out aswell, hes not exactly a pagan of virtue. Nobody is, but when you have someone repeatedly bringing up religion then its looks kind of hypocritical when they are carrying on numerous affairs and having numerous kids out of wedlock and so on. In many cases with the bible thumping, holier-than-thou brigade you find its all just a disguise to hide numerous skeletons in closet. But to be fair to Holyfield he seems to draw most of his strength from his beliefs so I suppose its a big part of his life and therefore a big part of the book by extension. But at times its almost like it selling religion, when I really wanted to read more about actual fights and technical aspects.

Theres alot to like about him too though. Hes humble, dignified in victory and defeat and doesnt appear to carry any bitterness or ill will. The sad thing is though his beliefs are so strong they have led to so many poor decisions be it in business, professionally as a fighter (hes still boxing) or in his personal life where hes had numerous failed marriages and lost huge amounts of money in settlements from women that appear to be just money grabbers.

With the Evan Fields incident, I dont want to say either way, but given what is known with the name and phone number and the connection to the whole scandal it would be a coincidence and theres certainly enough there to raise suspicions at least.

1-Wlad Klitschko
2-Riddick Bowe
3-Vitali Klitschko
4-Mike Tyson
5-James Toney
6-Holyfield


not a particular fan of any after that lot..

Idols
Muhammad Ali
George Foreman
Jack Dempsey
Ezzard Charles
Sonny Liston
James J Jeffries
Lennox Lewis
John L Sullivan
Bob Fitzsimmons
Joe Frazier
Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano
Gene Tunney
Jersey Joe Walcott
Floyd Patterson

The ones I like, but have mixed views on
Jack Johnson
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Max Schmeling
Riddick Bowe
Ken Norton
James J Corbett

The ones I straight out don't like
Larry Holmes
W Klitschko
V Klitschko

Interesting criticisms manos.

As you say - its a tough line to toe for Evander - because his beliefs have given him strength throughout his career - and if we're honest - they should have led him to become the first 5 time heavyweight champion in history against Valuev. As for the numerous women and children - its been a while since I read the book -but it seems like he was getting married to all of the ones with whom he was spawning. And each one was approached with the same naive and childlike innocence as to the longevity of each relationship.

As for Evan Fields - I won't dismiss all allegations, I was just putting forward the very obvious counter argument. There's suspicion - but Evander (never failed a test) takes a much tougher rap than Roy Jones (did fail a test) - and that, in my opinion, is unfair.

You're definitely not the only one to be disappointed by the book though. I enjoyed it as a ride - he's led a fascinating life from brutal, racist poverty in his youth (the sad bit where the copper came round and shot his dog) - to glory and lots of money - to owing lots of women and the IRS all he has. I would have appreciated more in the way of the story of each fight - but it wasn't to be.

One thing I will say for him - is that when reading his story, where he comes across as some flawed, Shakesperean hero, I was impressed by how few excuses he made for his defeats. A man who fought with hepatitis - but he never comes across like blaming that for his loss. Rather - he seems genuinely irritated that he couldn't go out and get the job done regardless.