Steven Jones the Welsh 10.

Has he, Steven Jones that is, joined his mate Shane Willliams and retired from international rugby?(By announcing his retirement from international rugby)

Or is the reason that he is not in the Welsh squad for the 6ns Warren Gatlands idea not to select him?

He may not have the speed he once had but his goal kicking is far more reliable than Priestlands, and Dan Biggar.

Do you think that not selecting him for the Welsh team is a good idea or a bad idea?

He hasn't retired but Gatland has said he will only look at players who will be around for 2015 WC.

Not sure I agree with it to be honest. I think if you are good enough then you play, however young or old.

If Stephen Jones is the best or second best 10 then he should be selected. It should be up to the next in line to usurp him. If he only lasts a year then so be it.

There are a number of players who may not make 2015, such as Gethin, Adam, Ryan Jones etc

I don't think you can afford to think only in 4 year cycles. 4 years is a long time in this sport and many players will come and go in that time. There is a lot of rugby to be played in the meantime and winning as many games as possible is the goal and for that you should select your best players.

Is Biggar in the squad? So even if your point about the goal kicking is true, it';s a bit of a moot point isn't it.

Secondly, Priestland is ahead of him for Scarlets, so logic would suggest he would get the nod over Jones for Wales.

Lastly, no he hasn't retired.

Priestland might be ahead of him at the Scarlets, but he isn't playing better then him. Priest has had one good game all season for the Scarlets (away against Saints), and we've looked better in all other HEC games when Stevo's been at 10, and Rhys at FB.

Gats is building for the future, fair enough, but we're now going into the 6N's with only one recognised 10 (Rhys Priest) who has been hugely inconsisent this season, and with the flaky Hook as a back up. Not Good. I'd have still had Stevo in the squad for this 6N's, then try new things summer tour and AI in preperation for the 6N's next year.

I can't remember the last time Stephen played well in a Wales shirt to be honest and personally I think if a player like Priestland career is going to blossom he needs to play for Wales as first choice.

Priestland wasn't exactly great last time out either though Alyn, a very very worrying showing at 10 v Ausralia. He panics when defences rush him, at least with Stevo you know he'll keep his cool and not do anything stupid, nor just ship on useless ball like Hook does, and Rhys P is starting to. Both still have a ton to learn. As back up (and not to start), Stephen should still be in the squad.

rugbydreamer wrote:Priestland wasn't exactly great last time out either though Alyn, a very very worrying showing at 10 v Ausralia. He panics when defences rush him, at least with Stevo you know he'll keep his cool and not do anything stupid, nor just ship on useless ball like Hook does, and Rhys P is starting to. Both still have a ton to learn. As back up (and not to start), Stephen should still be in the squad.

Stephen completely bottled it in the WC against France, I've always been a supporter of him but its time to move on now

He wasn't the only one to bottle it though IronMike and others who did, are still in the squad, and arguably had a much worse WC than Stephen Jones did, and have also been playing a lot worse this season (see Hook).

Explain that then?

I cant really comment as I havent really seen Hook play this season for Perpignan, but hes had a run of games at 10 there and I from what I've heard he hasnt been bad.

Even though Jones is passed it in my opinion, I probably would have him in the squad over Biggar or Tovey still, but if they feel that Hook is playing better, then I cant dispute it.

I've seen Hook play about 4-5 times this season. None of those performances have inspired me with confidence of him being our back up 10. And he proved more than most that internationall, at 10, he's just not good enough. Give me Stephen Jones every time over him, until the others are ready

AlynDavies wrote:I can't remember the last time Stephen played well in a Wales shirt to be honest and personally I think if a player like Priestland career is going to blossom he needs to play for Wales as first choice.

Yep I agree with Alyn (NOt often I say that) Additionally I havent forgiven Wellies for bottling the drop goal attempt in the semi. I dont think Gatland has either.

But you've forgiven Hook for all his missed kicks then?

I absolutely hate this singling out of a player. Hate, hate hate it.

Well if you want to get picky, Jones missed a vital conversion as well. You have to admit that both players played very poorly by their standards in the World Cup, and neither have really turned heads at club level this season, Hook has versatility, a run of games in the Top14 and age on his side which is why he was selected in my opinion.

Nope I havent forgiven Hook either. As for singling out a player when sombody makes a glaring error that costs a team a match then you have to single them out. Hook was just as guilty and if you look at the squad I posted was not selected.

Great servant for Wales but he is now 34 we have to let him go at some point.
Get the youngsters involved now so we are ready for 2015

On top of that, the failure to take the drop goal when it was on the correct foot and well within range was not just a mistake or a miss was it? It was a total loss of nerve he made it worse by promptly turning the ball over!

Well if you want to blame players for the semi final exit there are others ahead of him in the queue.

I have issues with those that level that Stevo should have gone for the drop goal. Considering his first attempt, and the sort of ball that he was receiving from Phillips (either at his boot laces or above his head), I struggle to recall a point when the DG was definitely on.

Guess he could have gone for it, made a complete hash of it, and people would still be slating him. That's juts how it is with Stevo.

Cymro - we've 4 years to get ready for 2015, we still have a 6N's to win, and we've set up a squad without a fully reliable 10 in it. That's madness to me.

Sorry Dreamer, I suggest you look at it again, the drop was on, it was on his correct foot, Jones was in the pocket, the play was there for the taking. He waved his backs into running positions as Phillips looked to pass back into the pocket and ran to the left taking teh ball into contact and turning it over. Even the commetators couldnt understand it.

At least if he had made the attempt I wouldnt be so upset bit to not try when it was on was criminal. Unless your a scarlets fan of course as they all seem to have "missed" the incident.

How have I missed it, when I just gave my opinon on it? Sure he could have gone for it, the way the game was going and the type of ball he was receiving though....would have been a ludicrously low % that it would have gone over.

But fair enough single that out if you will.

quotes on the 72nd minute from the press

Guardian - 72 min: But incredibly, Jones goes into hiding instead of waiting in the pocket for a pass snapped back. Wales keep driving forward, and eventually knock the ball on. The pressure is off France. What a chance Wales had there to set Jones up for a drop goal attempt. Very poor.

Telegraph - 72 min: Jones does not want the drop-goal. This is bizarre. He stands flat and takes it on. But he's up-ended and the ball is knocked on. To add insult to injury a penalty is given away at the breakdown. Baffling play from Jones.


I think you really need to go back to the last ten minutes of that game and look at it again. To try but to miss is far better than not trying at all.

SJ did bottle the drop but it is no relevance to his career in general. I agree that until such time as a natural understudy to Priest is found, he is our best option. But he is by no means the future so we must look further afield. Fact is the options are paltry, Biggar is a pile of poo and no other player is really asking for it. Hook? It woudl take a full season of competence at 10 for me to believe he is up to it. And another thing; sack Jenks....our licking cost us a final spot at RWC; unacceptable

Licking Gatts? I never thought Jenks was a cunning linguist

TycroesOsprey wrote:Sorry Dreamer, I suggest you look at it again, the drop was on, it was on his correct foot, Jones was in the pocket, the play was there for the taking. He waved his backs into running positions as Phillips looked to pass back into the pocket and ran to the left taking teh ball into contact and turning it over. Even the commetators couldnt understand it.

At least if he had made the attempt I wouldnt be so upset bit to not try when it was on was criminal. Unless your a scarlets fan of course as they all seem to have "missed" the incident.

Agreed.

Jones also missed the conversion from the Phillips try. Missed the Penalty against Ireland in 2008, missed 2 against England at the millennium last year that would have won us the game, against SA in 2010 I could go on, those are just off the top of my head.

Stephen Jones has been a good servant to Welsh rugby but in the same way Jenkins is remembered for goal kicking jones will be remembered for his quantity of caps and little else.

Having seen some magnificently talented flyhalfs play for Wales, Stephen jones doesnt even make the top ten.

TycroesOsprey wrote:Licking Gatts? I never thought Jenks was a cunning linguist

Excellent...going to leave it as licking, we might as well have been maybe we woudl have 'slotted' a few more

Aye Maes hes hardly cliff morgan, Jiffy, Barry, Benny, Bleddyn, I would even have Dacey, Gareth Davies, the Ginger monster and Ring ahead of him but he may sneak into the top ten.

rugbydreamer wrote:
Gats is building for the future, fair enough, but we're now going into the 6N's with only one recognised 10 (Rhys Priest) who has been hugely inconsisent this season, and with the flaky Hook as a back up. Not Good. I'd have still had Stevo in the squad for this 6N's, then try new things summer tour and AI in preperation for the 6N's next year.

+1

And madge, if Jones had retired you would have heard about it.

rugbydreamer wrote:I have issues with those that level that Stevo should have gone for the drop goal. Considering his first attempt, and the sort of ball that he was receiving from Phillips (either at his boot laces or above his head), I struggle to recall a point when the DG was definitely on.

You just said you hate singling out players but then go on to single out Mike Phillips, who was absolutely superb in all areas of his game during the World Cup, inlcuding passing! A pet hate of mine is people slagging off Phillips when they have no reason to.

As for the Quarter final exit blame que, the only player I would have ahead of Jones is Hook, who was terrible in both games that he started at 10. Picking Hook over Jones may cost us, it is the first of 4 Six Nations tournaments, we should at least be looking to win the first one and picking the best available players would help.

Morgannwg wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:
Gats is building for the future, fair enough, but we're now going into the 6N's with only one recognised 10 (Rhys Priest) who has been hugely inconsisent this season, and with the flaky Hook as a back up. Not Good. I'd have still had Stevo in the squad for this 6N's, then try new things summer tour and AI in preperation for the 6N's next year.

+1

And madge, if Jones had retired you would have heard about it.

That is why i ask the question, because i had not heard.

That is why i could not understand why he was not listed in the squad.

Cliff Morgan, Barry John, Dai Watkins, Cliff Jones, John Bevan, Malcolm Dacey, Dai Richards, Phill Bennett, Jonathan Davies and Bleddyn Bowen all ahead of Neil Jenkins or Stephen Jones.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:
Gats is building for the future, fair enough, but we're now going into the 6N's with only one recognised 10 (Rhys Priest) who has been hugely inconsisent this season, and with the flaky Hook as a back up. Not Good. I'd have still had Stevo in the squad for this 6N's, then try new things summer tour and AI in preperation for the 6N's next year.

+1

And madge, if Jones had retired you would have heard about it.

That is why i ask the question, because i had not heard.

That is why i could not understand why he was not listed in the squad.

Thats because Wales have options they want to blood at flyhalf who are young enough to play in the next world cup. Remember the Welsh backline from this recent RWC was all under 25...! We don't need to rely on a 30 year old. The other home unions lack any options to have the choice to make a similar a decision.

Though to be fair I would like Wales to have that kind of depth in as many positions as the ABs, French or Boks

Wow John Bevan at outside half Id forgotten all about him. to all wizards fans I aplogogise.

TycroesOsprey wrote:Sorry Dreamer, I suggest you look at it again, the drop was on, it was on his correct foot, Jones was in the pocket, the play was there for the taking. He waved his backs into running positions as Phillips looked to pass back into the pocket and ran to the left taking teh ball into contact and turning it over. Even the commetators couldnt understand it.

At least if he had made the attempt I wouldnt be so upset bit to not try when it was on was criminal. Unless your a scarlets fan of course as they all seem to have "missed" the incident.

Tycroes
Dreamer is 100% correct the DG was never 100% on........ Phillips distribution pass was high on his left side and by the time he turned to drop R/Footed, the Argentinan players already offside was on him.

Consider Priestlands missed kicks and Hook even worse performance against SA and the missed kicks thereafter, and taking into account Priestlands rather dire new term, and Hook was poor in the 1st game against NGD, and was been dropped from the 22 in such an important return against NGD, and for this weekend............. to-date he has been poor for the French, often starting at 10 then been shunted to O/Centre or dropped altogether.

There are a number of players who can feel agrieved not to be on the squad

15 Henson? out Ospreys Barry Davies in
13 Hook? out Scarlets Warren in
10 Stephen Jones or Stefan Jones
Brew playing well this season

Gatland is starting off like he did in 2008 picking players on reputation not form GROAN

Stefan jones is nowhere near ready for International rugby, he has had some poor games in his last few outings and Tovey is clearly still first choice 10.

With Halfpenny, Byrne and Li Williams in the squad I don't think Henson has been picked as a XV so I don't see the argument with for Barry Davies.

Likewise Warren insetad of Hook, the next in form centre after Beck is A Hughes so he would be ahead of Warren.

I for one am glad Stevo isn't in. It wasn't too long ago many were calling for Hook as first choice as Jones was too conservative. The argument against was always Hook isn't playing regular rugby at 10. Well now he is. Priestland has the shirt so it's his to lose and Hook is the back up with a point to prove. Jones can keep the Scarlets ticking over and some of the other youngsters can fight for Hooks place on the bench.
It's the way forward.

maestegmafia wrote:Jones also missed the conversion from the Phillips try. Missed the Penalty against Ireland in 2008, missed 2 against England at the millennium last year that would have won us the game, against SA in 2010 I could go on, those are just off the top of my head.

Yep, mention a handful of negatives and make no mention of any positives, that's how you evaluate a player.

Hook wasn't selected for the Dragons game because he was being rested. He's in the squad for the game against Exeter this weekend, probably because they think they're a better team than the Dragons. The games i've seen him play he has played well apart from the Dragons game where the whole team was crap.

Bad, very bad, idea.

the goal-kicking by all of the welsh flyhalves, when it mattered most, was pathetic.

Priestland/Hook/Jones all missed pressure kicks that could have won the games we lost.

Neil Jenkins should be sacked.

Cmon now that was down to the players.
I would get rid of Jenks anyway though, not because of the missed kicks however. Our kicking game has been aimless for the past 4 years.

Neil Jenkins should be sacked.

I bet he'd thought he'd heard the end of that sort of talk when he hung up his boots!

yes down to the players, but that means the preparation wasnt correct. all of the kicks that were missed were penalties that SHOULD have been kicked and probably would have been in any other circumstances. they werent up to the pressure of kicking in that situation. just 1 of them, fair enough, perhaps even 2, but all 3 of our flyhalves to have the exact same problem says something about the coaching to me.

To me its more Welsh flaky mentality.
We've seen it countless times in close games whether it be regional, club or international. It might be poor coaching but i think they just chocked.
We've all seen Dan Carter, Jonny Wilkinson, Chris Patterson miss 4 or 5 kicks out goal in a row. It can happen to any player.

yeah, it can happen to any player.

but not 3 different players across a tournament that regularly.

I dont think there is a problem with the welsh mentality, whatsoever.

In every game the team created enough chances to win that game, it was taking those chances( kicks at goal!!!!!!) that was the difference. and that is a very specific part of the game, and for it to affect 3 players, across a number of games, thats a coaching issue for me.

We'll have to agree to disagree here i think.

haha i guess so!

maybe we should get jordan crane in to teach them about kicking under pressure though anyway!

oooh nice one

i thought Stevo's kicking % was at 85%? one of the best in the tournament, no?

RD, it probably was, and I have nothing against SJ as some posters do, but its the ones that matter that he missed. as did Hook and Priestland.

thats my point (and remark about Crane giving them some help with nailing the pressure kicks).

ah yeah I know that, just think all these calls to sack Jenks are just a bit ridiculous - he can't go and kick the ball for them!