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Shingler poetic justice?

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Shingler poetic justice? Empty Shingler poetic justice?

Post by flopspreys Tue 24 Jan 2012, 4:59 pm

Rise through the ranks at the Scarlets
Play for Wales under 20
Do a very nice S4C advert about becoming the next great Welsh 10
Witness the rise of Sir Priestland of Rhys
Change allegiance to Scotland
IRB deems him ineligible
His brother gets selected for Wales


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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 24 Jan 2012, 5:01 pm

A hint of bitterness there, flopspreys?

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Post by flopspreys Tue 24 Jan 2012, 5:01 pm

No not at all I think it's amusing.

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Post by Adam D Tue 24 Jan 2012, 5:03 pm

Wales have called Scarlets lock / back row forward Aaron Shingler out to their RBS 6 Nations training camp in Gdansk, Poland.

Shingler, who is a Wales sevens international and featured in last year’s IRB world series, will join the 34-man party this afternoon (Tuesday) and train with the squad until it returns to Cardiff on Sunday.

The Hampshire-born 24-year-old is a former Glamorgan cricketer who grew up in West Wales attending Pontarddulais Comprehensive School and Gorseinon Tertiary College.

He joined Llanelli rugby club in 2007, before being promoted to the Scarlets regional side in 2009 to make his debut against the Ospreys in April that year.

His eye-catching length of the field try was instrumental to the Scarlets’ 16-13 Heineken Cup victory over Castres Olympique in France last weekend which secured their place in the Amlin Challenge Cup quarter-finals.

Aaron Shingler
DOB: 07.08.87
Height: 1.96 m / 6' 5"
Weight: 106 kg /16 st 9 lb
Position: Back Row / Lock
Region: Scarlets

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Post by flopspreys Tue 24 Jan 2012, 5:08 pm

Surprised A.S was not already in the training squad.

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Post by munkian Tue 24 Jan 2012, 5:13 pm

He was in the U19 cricket sqaud as well wasn;t he ? Christ, wouldn't want him running at me to throw a ball at my head Shocked
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Post by flopspreys Tue 24 Jan 2012, 5:15 pm

I'm sure there is a 3rd Shingler brother who played football for Ireland and maybe even a 4th?

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Post by Guest Tue 24 Jan 2012, 5:20 pm

Really really happy for Aaron, he's worked so hard the last couple of seasons, and I thought him unlucky not to even get picked for teh squad initially. He put in a brilliant perfromance against Castres so this is fully deserved. Even if he doesn't end up making the cut, it's great exposure and experience for him. Chuffed to bits!

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Post by RuckingFlanker86 Tue 24 Jan 2012, 5:47 pm

Certainly deserves it well done Aaron.

On the flip side does this mean Lydiate is out?

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Post by Guest Tue 24 Jan 2012, 5:55 pm

No, well they haven't mentioned it in the article, just that he's been brought in as cover just in case. Maybe Dan is a possible doubt for the first couple of rounds then. Who knows!

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Post by Cymroglan Tue 24 Jan 2012, 6:05 pm

Glad they called him up even if it's only to get familiarised with the setup

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Post by bedfordwelsh Tue 24 Jan 2012, 6:25 pm

Cymro,

Just added same sentiment on the update thread, really hope Lydiate if fit for next weekend
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 25 Jan 2012, 9:50 am

To be honest I am glad that he has been called up. I honestly think that with his ability to cover lock and flanker he could well end up taking the roll of JT and Daf Jones as a usefull utility forward.
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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 25 Jan 2012, 9:56 am

I actually think the WRU's behaviour regarding Steven Shingler is despicable. If they have no intention of selecting him why create all the fuss about him trying to play for his mother's country?

This is a young man's career they are toying with for no other reason than sour grapes. Let him go play for Scotland if he wants.
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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:00 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I actually think the WRU's behaviour regarding Steven Shingler is despicable. If they have no intention of selecting him why create all the fuss about him trying to play for his mother's country?

This is a young man's career they are toying with for no other reason than sour grapes. Let him go play for Scotland if he wants.

Rugger,

I couldn't agree more with you, he is way down pecking order for the No10 shirt IMO so why not lett he lad try and make soemthing of it.

Back on topic of his brother then just glad they didn't go backwards and pick JT, hope Lydiate is fit and I guess if he's not R Jones will come in at 6 so freeing up a bench slot. So who knows he may well get capped this season.
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Post by Taffineastbourne Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:04 am

RR,cannot you grasp that the WRU do not make the qualification Laws?How would you feel if Scotland had picked him and won a Grand Slam but had their results wiped because they had picked an illegible player?

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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:07 am

Taff,

Thing is though the Laws are a bag of Horlicks, he's only qualified by us because he played against France and it seems that on that year they had decided their U20s were going to be their A Side.

Surely if you have a system that is U20s, A Side then Full cap the A Side in itself is the qualifying team. you can't just pick and choose.
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Post by munkian Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:08 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I actually think the WRU's behaviour regarding Steven Shingler is despicable. If they have no intention of selecting him why create all the fuss about him trying to play for his mother's country?

This is a young man's career they are toying with for no other reason than sour grapes. Let him go play for Scotland if he wants.


You do realise, as the SRU were trying to cap a player who had already been capped by another country then the IRB would have picked up on it eventually and made them look even more stupid ? Are you really that fussed about capping such a mercenary player anyway ?
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Post by Cymroglan Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:09 am

Wales could not let him go or we would be breaking the rules we had to notify the IRB that our records showed Shingler as being ineligible to represent another country if we had not done that we would have been heavily fined.
If you let one ineligible player go you then open the gate for the rest of them to go.

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:11 am

Cymroglan wrote:Wales could not let him go or we would be breaking the rules we had to notify the IRB that our records showed Shingler as being ineligible to represent another country if we had not done that we would have been heavily fined.
If you let one ineligible player go you then open the gate for the rest of them to go.
Hmm, like Jarvis and Loxton?

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Post by Cymroglan Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:12 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:Wales could not let him go or we would be breaking the rules we had to notify the IRB that our records showed Shingler as being ineligible to represent another country if we had not done that we would have been heavily fined.
If you let one ineligible player go you then open the gate for the rest of them to go.
Hmm, like Jarvis and Loxton?

No I said ineligible

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:14 am

If you let one ineligible player go you then open the gate for the rest of them to go

This is what is was all about for the WRU. They needed a precedent to roll out in the future and Shingler was just the case they needed after the issue with the two guys going off to Connacht.

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:14 am

Cymroglan wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:Wales could not let him go or we would be breaking the rules we had to notify the IRB that our records showed Shingler as being ineligible to represent another country if we had not done that we would have been heavily fined.
If you let one ineligible player go you then open the gate for the rest of them to go.
Hmm, like Jarvis and Loxton?

No I said ineligible
So 'precedent' wasn't set with them?

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Post by Cymroglan Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:17 am

Jarvis and Loxton were not tied to Wales, When they played against France U20s France had not designated their U20s as being their second side.

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Post by munkian Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:17 am

And why should Wales cap him NOW anyway ? We have better flyhalfs who are in better form than him at the moment.

I don't understand his desperate need to be capped NOW by anyone who will take him. He needs to get his head down and play well and see what happens.
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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:18 am

Simple A team level should be the qualifying standard, if teams don't have an A Side then tough luck. It may make the respective Union (WRU) get their arris in gear and get it back up and running.
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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:19 am

Cymroglan wrote:Jarvis and Loxton were not tied to Wales, When they played against France U20s France had not designated their U20s as being their second side.

And thats why its all Horlicks, surely you can't just chop and change, well you obviously can but I feel it shouldn't be allowed to happen.
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Post by munkian Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:20 am

Why should they be ? Becuase you say so ?

His Brother is a much better player anyway - glad he's been called up - hes actually on form and deserves a shot.

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:20 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:Jarvis and Loxton were not tied to Wales, When they played against France U20s France had not designated their U20s as being their second side.

And thats why its all Horlicks, surely you can't just chop and change, well you obviously can but I feel it shouldn't be allowed to happen.
Precisely, each union is supposed to state their second senior side once every four years and the last date for that was 2008

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Post by Effervescing Elephant Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:22 am

If anyone is to blame it's the French. With their continual flip flopping between an A side and their U20s. Blame the French people, it's what they're for i tells ya!
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:22 am

Aaron was born in England
Poetic justice would be him discovering that he was inelligable for Wales due to an obscure medieval law that meant his parents had had to swear his allegiance to England at birth to avoid execution.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:22 am

munkian wrote:And why should Wales cap him NOW anyway ? We have better flyhalfs who are in better form than him at the moment.

I don't understand his desperate need to be capped NOW by anyone who will take him. He needs to get his head down and play well and see what happens.

Put yourslef in his shoes munkian, would you want to play for Wales now after all the grief they have caused him.

If the IRB doesn't see sense and allow him to play for Scotland he'll never play international rugby IMO, because Gatland won't touch him with a barge pole and he must be urined off with the WRU so might decline a call up if he was offered.

A shame for the lad because he has some talent.
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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:23 am

munkian wrote:And why should Wales cap him NOW anyway ? We have better flyhalfs who are in better form than him at the moment.

I don't understand his desperate need to be capped NOW by anyone who will take him. He needs to get his head down and play well and see what happens.

Munkian,

I am guessing he thought he had more chance of a cap with Scotland as he is IMO quite away down the pecking order to be No10 for us.
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Post by Taffineastbourne Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:24 am

Bedford,the Laws may be shoddy but we are where we are.We cannot pick and choose which Laws to comply with.That would be anarchy.

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Post by Cymroglan Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:25 am

Yes but there is nothing in the rules to say you cant change it every year.. It does not say you must keep to the same designated team for four years only that you must inform the IRB every four years who your second team is even if you dont change it.
So if you change your designated team you can inform the IRB within that four year period.

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:26 am

And would you have that wording to hand?

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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:27 am

Taff,

I agree but was he told he is now tied to Wales becuae he had played against France but last week but last week when he played against England (or whoever) he was tied?

Or did the WRU even know how the system worked, not tied one week tied the next.
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Post by Cymroglan Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:27 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Aaron was born in England
Poetic justice would be him discovering that he was inelligable for Wales due to an obscure medieval law that meant his parents had had to swear his allegiance to England at birth to avoid execution.

Born in Aldershot due to his father serving in the Army just like my sons were born in various parts of the world due to my military career.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:28 am

100,

clearly the rules were adhered to as the IRB came down in favour of Wales.

Let it drop for gods sake. The WRU were staisfied they had tied the players when teh game was played, and informed them. The IRB is happy the players were tied.
The SRU screwed up in relying on Shinglers word that he wasnt tied rather than double checking with the IRB first.

What I dont underdatnd is why they dont just make all tied players be registered with the IRB so that theres a simple way of checking without flagging your intent to another Union.

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Post by munkian Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:29 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
munkian wrote:And why should Wales cap him NOW anyway ? We have better flyhalfs who are in better form than him at the moment.

I don't understand his desperate need to be capped NOW by anyone who will take him. He needs to get his head down and play well and see what happens.

Put yourslef in his shoes munkian, would you want to play for Wales now after all the grief they have caused him.

If the IRB doesn't see sense and allow him to play for Scotland he'll never play international rugby IMO, because Gatland won't touch him with a barge pole and he must be urined off with the WRU so might decline a call up if he was offered.

A shame for the lad because he has some talent.

How have Wales caused him grief ? Christ, people slag off Henson for being mercenary and going for money yet this little prostitute takes the biscuit... He plays for WALES U2Os, appears in a WELSH shirt for various promations. states he wants to force his way in to the WELSH team but when he doesn't get picked he hitches up his skirts and puts his ankles in the air for Scotland.

Would you actually care about this if he didnt want to play for Scotland all of a sudden ?
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Post by Cymroglan Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:29 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:And would you have that wording to hand?

It's on this site just do a search on the Shingler thread and you will see it there it was discussed in length on there.

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:31 am

Cymroglan wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:And would you have that wording to hand?

It's on this site just do a search on the Shingler thread and you will see it there it was discussed in length on there.
C, i know where it is, it's just that I interpret the words differently than you! Wink

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:33 am

munkian wrote:

Would you actually care about this if he didnt want to play for Scotland all of a sudden ?

Not really no, but he will never be capped by Wales after this fiasco. This is the lads career we are on about here, and it's a career that will last till he is 35. He doesn't have much time to make his money and is not getting a chance to showcase his talent with Wales at Test level.

Can you blame him for wanting to ply his trade in the country of his mothers birth?

The fact Henson made the squad and he didn't is laughable.
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Post by Red Right Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:34 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:Simple A team level should be the qualifying standard, if teams don't have an A Side then tough luck. It may make the respective Union (WRU) get their arris in gear and get it back up and running.

I tend to agree with this. Really just for the reason that allowing U20 to act as A's just muddies the waters in relation to the qualifying laws. Alternatively they could set the qualification criteria to U20's.

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Post by Cymroglan Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:35 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:And would you have that wording to hand?

It's on this site just do a search on the Shingler thread and you will see it there it was discussed in length on there.
C, i know where it is, it's just that I interpret the words differently than you! Wink

The way you and I interpret them is neither here or there what is clear though that the IRB believes he is ineligible to play for Scotland.
Their legal team will have all the facts needed to reach that decision.

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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:37 am

Cymroglan wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:And would you have that wording to hand?

It's on this site just do a search on the Shingler thread and you will see it there it was discussed in length on there.
C, i know where it is, it's just that I interpret the words differently than you! Wink

The way you and I interpret them is neither here or there what is clear though that the IRB believes he is ineligible to play for Scotland.
Their legal team will have all the facts needed to reach that decision.
Can't be that clear cut or they wouldn't have allowed an appeal to a more qualified committee? Not to mention what will happen if the case goes to the Sport Arbitration body. I still think this one has got some legs, whether we like it or not

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Post by Cymroglan Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:39 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
munkian wrote:

Would you actually care about this if he didnt want to play for Scotland all of a sudden ?

Not really no, but he will never be capped by Wales after this fiasco. This is the lads career we are on about here, and it's a career that will last till he is 35. He doesn't have much time to make his money and is not getting a chance to showcase his talent with Wales at Test level.

Can you blame him for wanting to ply his trade in the country of his mothers birth?

The fact Henson made the squad and he didn't is laughable.

No you cant blame him for that but if that was his desire then he should have let his country of birth know this and he should have made himself unavailable for games that would have tied him in.
If he had said he has no desire to represent Wales or be tied to Wales he would not have been selected.

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Post by Cymroglan Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:41 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs
The right of appeal is always a option.

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Post by Red Right Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:48 am

munkian wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
munkian wrote:And why should Wales cap him NOW anyway ? We have better flyhalfs who are in better form than him at the moment.

I don't understand his desperate need to be capped NOW by anyone who will take him. He needs to get his head down and play well and see what happens.

Put yourslef in his shoes munkian, would you want to play for Wales now after all the grief they have caused him.

If the IRB doesn't see sense and allow him to play for Scotland he'll never play international rugby IMO, because Gatland won't touch him with a barge pole and he must be urined off with the WRU so might decline a call up if he was offered.

A shame for the lad because he has some talent.

How have Wales caused him grief ? Christ, people slag off Henson for being mercenary and going for money yet this little prostitute takes the biscuit... He plays for WALES U2Os, appears in a WELSH shirt for various promations. states he wants to force his way in to the WELSH team but when he doesn't get picked he hitches up his skirts and puts his ankles in the air for Scotland.

Would you actually care about this if he didnt want to play for Scotland all of a sudden ?

I have friends with parents of different nationalities and most of them do feel significant ties to the countries of nationality of both parents. (I could never understand it but both of my parents - and for generations before - are Irish) - at least the guy wants to play. To say he's worse than Henson, lets see what Henson does first. I feel that, as before, his latest forray into rugby is simply to ensure he keeps his profile up until his next TV show.

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Post by munkian Wed 25 Jan 2012, 10:58 am

He's suddenly found close emotinal ties to Scotland because they'll cap anyone and Wales don't need him at the moment.

I'm Welsh, my Dad is English, I've always supported Wales, I'm not going to change allegiance all of a sudden

Should we ask the IRB to 'uncap' all previously capped Welsh Players we don't need so Scotalnd can have them ? You can have Tom James by all means.
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