my england team for scotland game

corbesiro hartley cole
palmer attlewood
clark robshaw
morgan
youngs hodgson
farrell barritt
ashton sharples
foden bench: stevens webber botha croft Dickson strettle brown

the reason I would not play croft is we need a physical back row Clark more aggressive.

I agree, if you play the winger which is Croft then you need a very strong pack of 7 other forwards.

Adam, are you just back from remedial lessons at school ? You have nearly punctuated this time- well done. Gold star for you tomorrow.

Clark and Attwood have both been sent home and are very very unlikely to play at the weekend

So Botha and Palmer then, Thunor?

HammerofThunor wrote:Clark and Attwood have both been sent home and are very very unlikely to play at the weekend

I thought they were all being sent home tonight for a day off to reconvene tomorrow evening?

it english i dont care about punctual crap you wont be laughing when scotland are 20 points down in 20 mins

Adam, are you related to Strokey?

no a lion english lion and proud

I thought it was a red rose?

englandglory4ever wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Clark and Attwood have both been sent home and are very very unlikely to play at the weekend

I thought they were all being sent home tonight for a day off to reconvene tomorrow evening?

The BBC articles specifically mentions several players who've gone back to their clubs and says that 2 more more will be released (probably a prop and a back three player). Favourites are Marler and Brown.

HammerofThunor wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Clark and Attwood have both been sent home and are very very unlikely to play at the weekend

I thought they were all being sent home tonight for a day off to reconvene tomorrow evening?

The BBC articles specifically mentions several players who've gone back to their clubs and says that 2 more more will be released (probably a prop and a back three player). Favourites are Marler and Brown.

Good I'd like some players back to set our recent poorer form to rest

Asbo,

something wrong with the author of this post I think He will be looking out his John Bull strait-jacket for Saturday probably and that is one of the reasons for his illiteracy. I'm going to look out for him. Should be a right good laugh.

I think its pretty much going to be:

1 Corbs
2 Hartley
3 Cole
4 Palmer
5 Botha
6 Croft
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan

9 Youngs
10 Hodgson
11 Sharples / Strettle
12 Barritt
13 Farrell
14 Ashton
15 Foden

And in all honesty (accepting there has been a number of injuries)...it doesnt inspire me!

I would not of thought that Brown would be sent home, I would of thought he would get a spot on the bench and come on 60 minute mark.

why would they keep brown if foden is OK? how often do you see a specialist full back in the subs?

The thank god list :

Released players: Matt Banahan, Dave Attwood, Alex Goode, Lee Mears, Joe Simpson, Thomas Waldrom, David Wilson.

Most of those were pretty obvious, although Botha and Parling over Attwood is a big call.


It will be a typical Lancaster bench with no out and out cover for 10. Barritt and JTH ...cant see them starting so one alongside Farrell, more likely Barrit youd think with the other on the bench.
Brown on the bench, otherwise the only fullback cover is Sharples? But then who covers the wings, Foden?

The side is pretty much settled now anyway, just the issue on who starts alongside Ashton and Foden and how the centers lineup. Maybe who starts at 8, Dowson vs Morgan.

lostinwales wrote:why would they keep brown if foden is OK? how often do you see a specialist full back in the subs?

The last but one game Lancaster picked a side for?

Going to be an interesting bench. JTH on the bench, Farrell to start. No idea about Strettle or Sharples. I think whichever doesn't start should be on the bench personally but obviously Lancaster hasn't decided between Brown on the bench or the spare winger. Maybe he will try and blood Brown at FB if all goes well? Brave but maybe a good idea in the long run. This squad will look a lot stringer when Tuilagi comes back. Looks like we may have Marler on the bench too. Looks like Quins aren't getting any players back ATM.

1. I am disappointed to see Attwood being sent home. Why? To me he looks like the perfect blend of old school mongrel and modern athletic lock.

Please can someone shed some light on this?

2. Dowson. Curious and curiouser. If he was any good surely he would have won a cap or two before his 31st birthday. I can see i suppose that he is a handybenchm'n but if he starts at 8 over a specialist form 8 in Morgan i'll be disappointed.

8 is a specialist position.

2,8,9,10,15 and increasingly 7 are the SPINE - key players, players who get their mitts on the ball a lot and they are the key decision makers.

If you put part timers in any of these spots you dont deserve to be coaching at all.

By the way adambarney Barritt is a 12.

Personally I think Sharples should be on the bench as full back cover and as he has no international experience. Strettle to start.

Morgan to start as no 8. Dowson - bench as cover.

Would prefer Garvey to Botha but Botha has been playing fairly well recently.


Nervous about the whole front five. Still not sure what should be done about Croft. I don't see him as your typical 6. Robshaw and Morgan deserve their chances.

Backline of Youngs,Hodgson,Strettle,Barritt,Farrell,Ashton,Foden should be fine though. Obviously M.Tuilagi and Flood to come back in when not injured.

beshocked wrote:By the way adambarney Barritt is a 12.

Personally I think Sharples should be on the bench as full back cover and as he has no international experience.

10 minutes!

I dunno I think hell go with Brown on the bench as fullback is much more a specialist position, it would be very "monye" to have Sharples there should Foden get injured, whereas wing can be covered by pretty much any back if need be.
I think its more likely a straight shoot out between Strettle and Sharples for a start or go home place. Strettle offers experience and familiarity with the core of the backline, Sharples the second kicking option in the back 3 ( which will be a huge weakness of a Foden, Strettle, Ashton backline up against a Dan Parks oriented Scotland)

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

beshocked wrote:By the way adambarney Barritt is a 12.

Personally I think Sharples should be on the bench as full back cover and as he has no international experience.

10 minutes!

I dunno I think hell go with Brown on the bench as fullback is much more a specialist position, it would be very "monye" to have Sharples there should Foden get injured, whereas wing can be covered by pretty much any back if need be.
I think its more likely a straight shoot out between Strettle and Sharples for a start or go home place. Strettle offers experience and familiarity with the core of the backline, Sharples the second kicking option in the back 3 ( which will be a huge weakness of a Foden, Strettle, Ashton backline up against a Dan Parks oriented Scotland)

Nah we'll just run it back

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

beshocked wrote:By the way adambarney Barritt is a 12.

Personally I think Sharples should be on the bench as full back cover and as he has no international experience.

10 minutes!

I dunno I think hell go with Brown on the bench as fullback is much more a specialist position, it would be very "monye" to have Sharples there should Foden get injured, whereas wing can be covered by pretty much any back if need be.
I think its more likely a straight shoot out between Strettle and Sharples for a start or go home place. Strettle offers experience and familiarity with the core of the backline, Sharples the second kicking option in the back 3 ( which will be a huge weakness of a Foden, Strettle, Ashton backline up against a Dan Parks oriented Scotland)

Nah we'll just run it back

Fine lets pick Monye at fullback then

Monye's problem was he couldn't catch the ball.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

beshocked wrote:By the way adambarney Barritt is a 12.

Personally I think Sharples should be on the bench as full back cover and as he has no international experience.

10 minutes!

I dunno I think hell go with Brown on the bench as fullback is much more a specialist position, it would be very "monye" to have Sharples there should Foden get injured, whereas wing can be covered by pretty much any back if need be.
I think its more likely a straight shoot out between Strettle and Sharples for a start or go home place. Strettle offers experience and familiarity with the core of the backline, Sharples the second kicking option in the back 3 ( which will be a huge weakness of a Foden, Strettle, Ashton backline up against a Dan Parks oriented Scotland)

Nah we'll just run it back

Fine lets pick Monye at fullback then

I was being facetious. Though I think when possible we should run it back in the counter-attack, accepting that this is not always possible/sensible. Scotland's team is designed to win a kicking game so we should not play to their strength but rather to ours and we have a pacy back 3 that should be able to beat people in broken play.

According to Planet Rugby's sources..!

Likely England XV: 15 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), 14 Chris Ashton (Northampton Saints), 13 Bradley Barritt (Saracens), 12 Owen Farrell (Saracens), 11 Charlie Sharples (Gloucester) or David Strettle (Saracens), 10 Charlie Hodgson (Saracens), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers), 8 Phil Dowson (Northampton Saints), 7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins - Captain), 6 Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), 5 Mouritz Botha (Saracens), 4 Tom Palmer (Stade Français), 3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), 2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints- Vice Captain), 1 Alex Corbisiero (London Irish).

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7471533,00.html

Barritt 13, Farrell 12?

Barritt and Farrell as a centre partnership is pretty depressing. Can accept Barritt at 12 or Farrell at 10 perhaps...but Farrell out of place at 13 instead of Trinder, May et al is pretty disappointing.

We desperately need Garvey at lock. Really disappointed his form hasn't been recognised

Hood83 wrote:Barritt and Farrell as a centre partnership is pretty depressing. Can accept Barritt at 12 or Farrell at 10 perhaps...but Farrell out of place at 13 instead of Trinder, May et al is pretty disappointing.

We desperately need Garvey at lock. Really disappointed his form hasn't been recognised

He looked to be the only LI player with a bit of spark when they got mauled by Edinburgh in the Heino.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Barritt 13, Farrell 12?

Because the first choice set up was Farrell 12 Tuilagi at 13. I gues sit was a shootout between BArrit, Trinder 9 now injured) and JTH as to who was the best like for like replacement.
Although they play the other way round for their club thats under a different attacking system. It looks like Lancaster wants Farrell at his prefereered position, and operate with two kickers interchnaing and a direct runner outside.
Barrit will be doing essentialy the same things at 13 he was at 12, just running at a different channel and getting dragged onto the wing a bit.

It seems a very plausible team. Theres certainly not that much room for changes given the palyers we know have been sent home. Still a question on the bench as to Strettle vs Brown.


The problems with the team are pretty obvious : too many inexpereinced players and a lack of familiarity across the pitch ( if the Saracens trio do lineup as suggested here even they have a bit to get used to) and a lack of power in the front 5. Also theres not much pace between 10 and 13.

Dowson at 8, well there you go. He is about 5th choice mind. The injury to Wood will have caused al sorts of shifts in the pans. At least he looks vaguely like a proper 8, I tstill think Easter is unfortunate to have missed out on this tournament if hes going for an older player but there you go.
Botha for me isthe standout "really?" in there.

Actually and remarkably, the more I think about the backline the less worried I become. Robinson clearly thinks England with a Sarries backline will play like Sarries (hopefully they will in terms of defence). But Hodgson is a great distributor out of hand, Ashton and Strettle and Sharples are attack orientated wingers that each bring something different to the squad, Foden is a class act in defence and attack and if Brown is on the bench he is scoring tries for fun and has been solid in defence (with 2 exceptions). JTH is off form but I don't think he will get much game time. Youngs likes to attack. Barritt can switch 12 and 13 with farrell when necessary, and is a good passer and can attack even if he doesn't at Sarries.

The team is well selected to play three gameplans- a counter attacking one with the back 3 feeding off parks' kicks. A Sarries defend and kick territory game with hard running from barritt and kicking from CH and OF. And a running game based on CH's excellent distribution and our exciting wingers and fullback. Hodgson and Farrell aren't the best defenders on paper but they do fine at Sarries whose defence is great and are clearly underrated for it. With Barritt at 12 in defence and Robshaw protecting the channel, I think it is going to be a lot harder to target Hodgson that a lot of people suspect. In fact the better gameplan for Scotland (especially as Hodgson and Farrell are both good kickers from hand and tee) would be to run it and spread it wide and attack Strettle and Farrell's area .

We will see though. And I'm not sure our pack is hefty enough to give us the time on the ball that these players enjoy at club level. Hope Croft and Robshaw are up for some groundwork...

I hope Barritt doesn't line up outside Farrell that often. Farrell isn't enough of a running threat, and Hodgson similarily so. With the backrow or players round the breakdown covering the inside ball, the defence will just happily drift and hold, closing out the opportunties in the outside channels. Far better to have Barritt fix the defence and give more space to the players outside him.

I was advocating Barritt at 12 in defence and mist of the time in attack but Farrell at inside in times where tactical kicking is clearly the right move. Or split centres if we are near the middle of the pitch. Never know if it's going to Farrell and his boot/one winger or through Barritt's hands and the other winger and FB. Though that is risky if over used as it limits outside options unless Foden joins the line or the likes of Croft get involved, and would require good ball off a solid platform

Hood83 wrote:Barritt and Farrell as a centre partnership is pretty depressing. Can accept Barritt at 12 or Farrell at 10 perhaps...but Farrell out of place at 13 instead of Trinder, May et al is pretty disappointing.

We desperately need Garvey at lock. Really disappointed his form hasn't been recognised

London Irish locks seem to be unlucky. Garvey and before that Kennedy. Both good locks

My comment wasn't in reply to yours ChequeredJersey, but to the general reports coming out that Farrell is apparently set to wear 12. Sorry for not making that clear.

to me the exoected backline looks ok, but it would look 10 times better if Tuilagi was fit. Farrell and Barrit in the centres lacks pace and an outside break. A backline with Hodgson, Tuilagi, Ashton, Foden and Strettle would be very exciting.
I really hope that this is the start of a good run of form for Hodgson in and England shirt. His defence has reportedly improved and he won't have the pressure of goal kicking, so let's hope he can set the backs free and is playing well when Tuilagi returns, as they could be fantastic together. Flood, depsite some good games for England, has never really looked world class for me.

Still a bit concerned about a lack of tough forwards, especially at the breakdown.

It hasnt helped with Injuries...however i dont like using that as an excuse.

I just think the pack looks underpowered....which could have been rectified by Attwood and Garvey etc being in there...

HOWEVER....they have obviously been training hard and everyone will have been watched...Rowntree will have had a big input on how the pack needs to be selected...and he knows a thing or two about a strong pack...so i will judge after the game.