Wales Team vs Italy

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Gatland has already come out and said that there wont be wholesale changes against the Italians which to a certain extent I agree with. However there are a couple of players who could probably do with a rest and a couple who maybe we needto protect for the French game. I think this is a real important selection for Warren as we need to win and win well but the last thing we want are lots of battered bruised players needing recovery heading into the French game. On the other hand there are some players who need gametime. I would look at some of our other options but not destroy the team.

1. Gethin,
2. Smiler - if fit if not Owens deserved to keep his spot but I see Rees as our best hooker still
3. Mitchell - I think he needs a game for his development, Adam is vital to our success against the french and Italys scrum without Castro is not as scary.
4. AWJ - needs more game time
5. Ian Evans
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton - Tipuric to come on if we build a lead as Warburton will be needed on full fire against the French
8. Faletau
9. Phillips- I would pull Spikey off about 50-60 if we have built a good lead and give Lloyd a run
10. Priestland- before today I would maybe have given scabby a run out at ten but I think RP needs to get back in the saddle and get over todays dire performance
11. North
12. Henson - playing for the blues has looked better each game with Roberts taking a knock today I think we need to protect him a bit as he is vital against the French
13. JD - One of our best performers this season.
14. Cuthbert - quiet today but the more games he has the better he will get.
15. Halfpenny - Unless Hook is at ten then I would let leigh have a break he is another needed against the French so perhaps Byrne to come in

16. James
17. Owens
18. Ryan
19. Tipuric
20.Lloyd W
21. Hook
22. Williams

We could of course change everything and put out the team below but Im hoping Gatland has learnt his lesson about that although it doesnt look too bad a side.

1. Gill
2. Smiler
3. Mitchell
4. AWJ
5. Ian
6. Shingler
7. Tipuric
8. Ryan
9. Lloyd
10. Hook
11. Robinson
12. Henson
13. Williams
14. Cuthbert
15. Byrne

16. James
17. Hibbard
18. Read
19. Powell
20. Phillips
21. Priestland
22. Halfpenny.

True I know what your saying dreamer and I agree that we learnt that the hardway before against Italy and Fiji, and I wouldn't want wholesale changes or to bring in rookies (such as Reed/Lloyd Williams) but I think R Jones has proved his worth, and shouldn't disrupt the team too much, as has Gill, and as a winger there shouldn't be too much dispruption in changing 1 player in the backs with North out for the inform Liam. The main risk is benching Lydiate, as his work rate is huge and maybe should be kept in the side.

But your right the 1st priority is to win the game

Let's not forget they turned over France last year. Also if we beat Italy and draw with France, the title could be decided by points difference. So far our margins of victory have been narrow - compared with 05 & 08 - so it would be nice for confidence too to win a by a healthy margin.

Lucky - spot on.

Glas - Liam Davies and Wayne Evans - seriously?! one's barely played all season,and the other has been playing but not very well.

Also you've no no 8 in your backrow.

And Tovey isn't consistent enough (and no, I know, neither is Rhys!)

Other then that, I think I quite like the look of that team.

rugbydreamer wrote:Lucky - spot on.

Glas - Liam Davies and Wayne Evans - seriously?! one's barely played all season,and the other has been playing but not very well.

Also you've no no 8 in your backrow.

And Tovey isn't consistent enough (and no, I know, neither is Rhys!)

Other then that, I think I quite like the look of that team.

You'll have also spotted I was laying it on with a trowel.

The team i want to see against Italy:
15-9 Halfpenny, North, Davies, S Williams, Cuthbert, Priestland, Phillips
1-8 Gill, Owens, A Jones, AW Jones, Evans, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau
16-22 James, Hibbard, Jones, Tipuric, Lloyd Williams, Hook, Liam Williams.

ha aye just a bit Glas.

Like that 2nd team much more

I agree with most of the posters in that we shouldn't make too many changes for this game. I would however play Scott Williams as if JR isn't 100% why risk him and it won't be weakening us to add a bit of guile and pace.
I'd also start with Lloyd Williams at scrum half. Philips service was slow last week and with LL.W, RP SC.W, JD2, GN,There's a pretty pacey back line that could do some damage to Italy.
It's only two changes and the boys they're replacing will be on the bench so theres little risk.

It'll be interesting to see if S Williams starts if Gats changes JD2 and Scott around in the centre positions

I think Jones is needed against the Italian front row who look good until they tire, and their sub options are poor quality.

My starters would be...

Jenkins
Owens
Jones

With Gill and Smiler to get 20, as soon as the Italians make their change we can get away with it.

The 2nd row has to start again, Evans is getting better and better, and AWJ need's game time.

Back row again stay the same with Warbs to be rested as early as possible, Duss will be waiting for the battle of the tourny and he'll be on 4 weeks in a row. I'd be tempted to play Ryan Jones, he's looked very good this term, very clever and is involved in everything when he gets on the pitch.

I'd give Lloyd Williams a start, not to rest Phillips but to give Preistland some more accurate ball, and a bit of speed from the base is what Preistland thrives off, Phillips on the bench just in case.

Theres a couple of Italian backs who are particularly average, maybe Hook at 12 JD2 at 13, unless hooks not fully fit, then Williams get's his chance. The only issue is that North and Cuthbert will have to pick uo the carrying down the 10 channell slack, especially if it's Bota/Borta, he's not great at all.
I would consider Gav on the bench, if Hook is out.

I'd start with the same back 3, or maybe switch North to the bench, I'm not sure the Italians have much out wide to worry us, Masi a lone threat maybe.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Like a few years back England done their work on Roberts and tied him up pretty well.

And once again, we made their job easier by giving them exactly what they were expecting. We should have used Roberts as a decoy and gone wide.

I agree. JR was apparently injured in the 5th minute. Why didn't he go off? We played so narrow, and were so predictable, it was a huge disappointment. I was dying to see Cuthbert have a run. This guy has a future brighter than Jason Mohamed's teeth! I hope he gets a chance against Italy.

I've heard that Cuthbert touched the ball once all game.

Ive actually changed my mind, I would start Lloyd Williams, and Justin Tipuric just to give them both some game time,

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I've heard that Cuthbert touched the ball once all game.

That wasn't his fault, England kept kicking it to North because Morgan had told them his hands were suspect.

1. Gill
2. Owens
3. Jones
4. AW Jones
5. Evans
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Priestland
11. North
12. Sc. Williams
13. JD2
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. James
17. Rees (Hibbard)
18. Ryan Jones
19. Tipuric
20. Lloyd Williams
21. Hook
22. Liam Williams/Ashley Beck (Scott Williams has covered wing at international level before and he did... alright).

I'd look to rest Jenkins, Gill's a strong scrummaging prop and played very well against Ireland. OWens to continue after his game on the weekend. Rest Roberts, and tell him why he's been doing so well up until now, angles, taking the ball at pace and more angles. AW Jones needs matchtime at this level. Depending on how the games going, I'd look to replace LYdiate/Warbs with Ryan Jones/Tipuric, they'll be instrumental in the game against France, but make no mistakes they are needed against Italy's physical backrow. Priestland needs to recover a little and Gatland needs to show faith in him as he did this weekend, many coaches would have replaced him, but Gatlands obviously wanted him to learn what its like to play on the backfoot in a hostile enviroment when things are starting to go against you. Beck was the form centre before the 6ns, he deserves to get onto the bench at least once this tournament, but Liam Williams has played very well also and deserves a chance to come into that back 3. Id be happy with either of those on the bench as it gives us different options either way.

Thats my take, Italy will be tough opposition, but as usual, when they travel, a few scores tends to take the wind out of their sails. Ireland showed to beat them this weekend, itll take a full strength team unless we want a repeat of whats happened in previous years and we're blowing a sigh of relief come the final whistle, not looking for another score.

Jenkins and Roberts rested, AW Jones to be pushed for the full 80.

I could live with that Comfort, not losing much in the scrum if any, and the Italian front row don't last 60.

Hook needs a bit of game time though in IMO, and although Lloyd Williams is a risk against France he has to start V Italy, Preistland gets cold waiting for Phillips pass to get to him, and then by the time he's taken it above his head, he has no go forward. RP will profit from a Lloyd Williams style play, although again Williams needs game time to pick up some form.

Which idiot has told Lloyd Williams to be more of a threat around the fringes like Phillips is? Can't he be his own player?

EVERY SH has to be a threat around the fringes, otherwise we'll see 3 chargedowns in 3 games from... OOOOOHHHHHH!!!

So it was you then. You can be a threat around the fringes by physically taking on the back row like Phillips or by sheer pace off the mark and nimble feet like Peel. If you are a Peel type don't try to play like Phillips.

15. Halfpenny
14. Cuthbert
13. Davies
12. S Williams
11. North
10. Priestland
9. Phillips
8. Faletau
7. Warburton
6. Lydiate
5. R Jones
4. Evans
3. A Jones
2. Owens/Rees if fit
1. Jenkins

16. Owens/Hibbard
17. Bevington
18. AW Jones
19. Tipuric
20. L Williams
21. Hook/S Jones
22. Beck/Roberts if fit

Changes should not be rung or the Italians will run us close, maybe even beat us, they're well capable of it. Blood the bench late if the game is won by that stage but keep the starting XV almost identical.

So Gatland has said he won't change the team much because he wants to get a big win against Italy to ensure Wales have a good points difference.

Arrogant?

No it wasn't me Glas, but it depends how you define threat.

Lloyd has a lovely all round game, can snipe if he thinks it's on, has a decent little box and chip, and lovely service accurate and pacey, but ye you are right, recently for Cardiff he has taken it on a bit to tie players in, Phillips can do this where Lloyd shouldn't.

But a threat can come from a number of ways.

Mitey

ALWAYS! You know Gatland, make Italy feel inferior from the off (I hope)

miteyironpaw wrote:So Gatland has said he won't change the team much because he wants to get a big win against Italy to ensure Wales have a good points difference.

Arrogant?

Did he say that? I thought he said he didn't want to ring too many changes as the last time we done that Italy could have nicked it. Nothing said about a big win. Less arrogant and more a mark of respect I thought.

overlordofthewest wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:So Gatland has said he won't change the team much because he wants to get a big win against Italy to ensure Wales have a good points difference.

Arrogant?

Did he say that? I thought he said he didn't want to ring too many changes as the last time we done that Italy could have nicked it. Nothing said about a big win. Less arrogant and more a mark of respect I thought.

"Italy is a potential banana skin, but we have to believe we are capable of winning that well."

Should he be likening opposition teams to fruit if he is showing respect?

England was a potential banana skind as well weren't they according to Edwards.

miteyironpaw wrote:

overlordofthewest wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:So Gatland has said he won't change the team much because he wants to get a big win against Italy to ensure Wales have a good points difference.

Arrogant?

Did he say that? I thought he said he didn't want to ring too many changes as the last time we done that Italy could have nicked it. Nothing said about a big win. Less arrogant and more a mark of respect I thought.

"Italy is a potential banana skin, but we have to believe we are capable of winning that well."

Should he be likening opposition teams to fruit if he is showing respect?

The refuse of consumed fruit at that.

It's respect if he's likening Italy to a fruit that can beat you at rugby.

I don't think Italy are ripe just yet, new coach and a lot of green players coming through to the first team. But they're oriented around a very good core of players and besides any game has the potential of becoming a rotten experience for us.

How do you like them apples from Twickenham btw?

If we are resting props then I would rather rest A Jones and give Mitchell a run rather than rest Jenkins.