Which 6Ns will come out best in the IRB rankings after the Summer and Autumn Internationals?

That is relatively speaking.

Outside England and France, the 6Ns nations have next to no history of success against the premier SH sides.

You can read this post as you want: Change in ranking points, absolute IRB rankings position - any spin you want.

[p.s. I voted for France]

France. They will only come 2nd in the 6N, but I feel they will pick up a few wins in the Summer and AIs and they are ahead of the other 6N countries anyway

I would suspect that Wales, France and South Africa could be very close after the six nation, with England not far behind.

Wales have the best chance of gaining some points in OZ, I think Ireland will stuggle to win in NZ and if England don't improve soon, they may struggle in SA.

France is not touring the SH as far as I know and won't gain any points.

The question is will Wales win in OZ?

If they do they could overhaul France. I doubt it to be honest, Australia is in good form.

I think Argentina will struggle in their first four natiions and would stand to lose some points as they are within ten ranking points of SA and OZ.

So they could most likely drop 3-4 places.

there aren't that many matches in the AI this year?

Wales vs Argentina

Scotland vs SA
Scotland vs NZ
Scotland vs Tonga

England vs SA
England vs NZ
England vs OZ
England vs Fiji

France vs Samoa
France vs OZ
France vs Argentina

Ireland vs Argentina

They will all be pretty bunched up again, anyone of France, england or Wales can be on top.

Erm ... good idea, but surely a vote needs to be with relevance to a specific question. For example, one team might rise in terms of position, another may make a big increase in ranking points but little change in position, another may be highest in the rankings, but not have risen.

charliehesketh wrote:Erm ... good idea, but surely a vote needs to be with relevance to a specific question. For example, one team might rise in terms of position, another may make a big increase in ranking points but little change in position, another may be highest in the rankings, but not have risen.

Ah but I'd have been accused poll rigging in some way.

My personal preference would have been to compare absolute rankings points but that would have been complained about in some way or another.

I see what you mean ... poisoned chalice ! :-)

biltongbek wrote:I would suspect that Wales, France and South Africa could be very close after the six nation, with England not far behind.

Wales have the best chance of gaining some points in OZ, I think Ireland will stuggle to win in NZ and if England don't improve soon, they may struggle in SA.

France is not touring the SH as far as I know and won't gain any points.

The question is will Wales win in OZ?

If they do they could overhaul France. I doubt it to be honest, Australia is in good form.

I think Argentina will struggle in their first four natiions and would stand to lose some points as they are within ten ranking points of SA and OZ.

So they could most likely drop 3-4 places.

there aren't that many matches in the AI this year?

Wales vs Argentina

Scotland vs SA
Scotland vs NZ
Scotland vs Tonga

England vs SA
England vs NZ
England vs OZ
England vs Fiji

France vs Samoa
France vs OZ
France vs Argentina

Ireland vs Argentina

They will all be pretty bunched up again, anyone of France, england or Wales can be on top.

According to ESPN (http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/match/fixtures/international.html)

AIs:

Sat 10 Australia tour France v Australia, Stade de France
Sat 10 Fiji tour England v Fiji, Twickenham
14:30 local, 14:30 GMT
Sat 10 New Zealand tour Scotland v New Zealand, Murrayfield
Sat 10 Argentina tour Wales v Argentina, Millennium Stadium
Sat 17 Argentina tour France v Argentina
Sat 17 Australia tour England v Australia, Twickenham
14:30 local, 14:30 GMT
Sat 17 South Africa tour Scotland v South Africa, Murrayfield
Sat 24 Samoa tour France v Samoa, Stade de France
Sat 24 South Africa tour England v South Africa, Twickenham
14:30 local, 14:30 GMT
Sat 24 Argentina tour Ireland v Argentina, Lansdowne Road
Sat 24 Tonga tour Scotland v Tonga, Murrayfield
December 2012

Sat 1 New Zealand tour England v New Zealand, Twickenham
14:30 local, 14:30 GMT

I agree that Scotland will come out best. They are a good side and have a lot of young talent.

so Wales have only one AI?

That won't help them much to gain points though, unless it is a trick to not risk losing points while all the others do.

biltongbek wrote:so Wales have only one AI?

That won't help them much to gain points though, unless it is a trick to not risk losing points while all the others do.

Seems that Ireland are dodging the same bullet.

So once again it's E and F expected to tote that barge and lift that bale.

Whilst that lazy ol' Sun got nuthin to do but roll about Heaven all day.

Now I have an inkling of an idea why English fans sing a negro slave spiritual song.

England play Fiji, Australia, SA, and NZ and I suspect that´s a schedule beyond them. I think they´d be happy enough with two wins there but even that is a tough ask. Then again win those games and they would catapult their way up the rankings.

I can't believe NZ isn't playing their regular money spinner in Cardiff. It may well get added to the calendar yet but I´d love to see us play Wales.

So England now have to play, France, Ireland SA X 4, 3 of those away, followed by NZ and Oz. They could be on a nine match losing run by then.

In reality Billtong, Wales are quite close to France, since they're not touring in the SH, Wales can make some ground with a win in OZ, which will be extremely tough but a possibility, then if they do they avoid losing the points come AI time, and the others drop more points than they win, come end of year Wales may be sitting on in 4th spot with a top seed spot in the next WC, they only missed out last time by a few points, if they had just gone for the extra 6 points against OZ they wouldv'e clinched it!

Yep, that was my point, although being slightly malicious in my comment.

Wales will play more AIs. Its just the fixtures have not been finalised, or announced.

i dont think wales can overtake france even if they beat them on supersaturday. wales only need one win over aus to get some irbranking points, defeats wont lose us points.

wales could end the season/start next season as top 6nations team. but irbranking points is not something that gets me excited.

TycroesOsprey wrote:So England now have to play, France, Ireland SA X 4, 3 of those away, followed by NZ and Oz. They could be on a nine match losing run by then.

Maybe, but that young squad will have picked up one heck of a lot of experience against the top teams....

And seeing that Wales were only a last minute try better than us...your suggestion doesnt say much for your beloved Wales does it

Portnoy wrote: Outside England and France, the 6Ns nations have next to no history of success against the premier SH sides.

Wrong Ireland have a decent record against SA and Australia, at least in the professional era.

Won 3 of the last 4 games against SA.
Won 2 and drawn 1 of the last 5 games against Australia

geoff998rugby wrote:

Portnoy wrote: Outside England and France, the 6Ns nations have next to no history of success against the premier SH sides.

Wrong Ireland have a decent record against SA and Australia, at least in the professional era.

Won 3 of the last 4 games against SA.
Won 2 and drawn 1 of the last 5 games against Australia

sorry mate, but could't resist.

3 of the last 4 at home
3 of the last 5
3 of the last 6
3 of the last 7
3 of the last 8
3 of the last 9
3 of the last 10

etc. etc.

I was told you are coming to our shores next year, but alas with the British and Irish Lions touring Australia, it might now only be in 2014

Then it can continue...

3 of the last 13
3 of the last 14

etc...

History is exactly that, history - Try moving into the here and now, it's about the next game not the one played 6 years ago

A wins a win

By contrast 3 of the five games against Australia have been away from home

geoff998rugby wrote:A wins a win

By contrast 3 of the five games against Australia have been away from home

2 you lost and the 1 win was on neutral ground (granted, that one hurt a lot).

Taking a leaf out of Biltong's book here, 'Won 2 and drawn 1 of the last 5 games against Australia' could just have correctly read 'Won 2 and drawn 1 of the last 9 games against Australia' if I'm being pedantic which I so often am.

Winner of the France Wales game really isnt it.

So France then.