Why I am club over country

Last weekend I found myself in a quandary. England were playing one of their biggest games of the 6 nations against Wales and the game was kicking off at 4.00pm. Gloucester in turn were playing league leaders Harlequins at 6.00pm. I had to decide how I would plan the day and every solution I produced meant I would miss some of the England match, as I had no intention of missing Gloucester. As it turned out Gloucester very kindly put the game on their big screens I enjoyed both games. Nevertheless this experience proved to me once and for all I am definitely a club over country person.

Once I had fully recognised this I tried to understand why this is the case. On face value I am a very patriotic person. I through a sickie to be in Trafalgar Square 9 years ago and having reviewed the England fixtures of recent years it has been nearly 10 years since I have missed a game – I even watched the internet broadcasted games in Oz. Yet despite this level of support England are still second to Gloucester. The answer lies in how I have watched these games. In the last 15 years I have watched less than 10 live England games, whereas on average I watch Gloucester play live at least 20 times a season.

I thoroughly support England and like any supporter I am very joyous when we win and pretty downhearted when we don’t, however, the level of support for Gloucester is higher for the simple fact that because I put more into supporting Gloucester I get more out of supporting them.

So why do I support Gloucester more than England? You could say cost plays a factor. A trip to Twickenham ticket et al is going to cost in the region of £150, whereas my season ticket for Gloucester costs £350 for 16 games. I have also found Twickenham to be a rather soulless environment at times. Often I am surrounded by groups intent purely on drinking themselves into a stupor and they have no grasp of the rules in the slightest. Whereas, typically club fans know their stuff, albeit with a bias slant (the Shed probably being the worst culprits!). There is also the style of rugby and inherently the quality of players at international level often leads to conservative play. On Saturday Owen Farrell kicked a penalty from out wide and I commented at the time that at international level you should have a kicker that will be able to get those the majority of the times. Fast forward 80 minutes and Gloucester got a penalty in a very similar area and they kicked for touch resulting in a lineout close to the 5 metre line. It may not be as clinical, but personally I find it more exciting to watch.

I should add I am not one of the well known Gloucester fans that have a pathological hatred of international teams. I want the likes of Johnny May and Freddie Burns to represent England. Equally I am dumbfounded that Nick Wood has never been capped and Sinbad only has 10 caps. I recognise that international level is the pinnacle for any player as it means they are the best, but those games just don’t match the spirit raising levels of club games.

My final calculation to prove this theory was looking at the games I have enjoyed most from an England and Gloucester perspective. The 2 England games that stand out are, not surprisingly, from 2003. The test against Australia before the World Cup and the final itself. One was an excellent display of rugby, the other simply thrilling. But quite frankly did the cup final cause the same level of stir within me as when Gloucester won the Powergen in 2003? No. Did the game against Australia cause as much jubilation as the away victory against Bath last season? No.

It is important to reiterate that I will always support my country and as mentioned will always watch them, but please RFU don’t clash with Gloucester as you’ll never win!

Very well written HKC

Good logic and understandable, here in Wales many of the the 4 pro club supporters often can't understand why the supporters of premier sides don't support them i.e., so called regional sides i.e., the same logic you refer in your case.

Cheers Kiwi, I did promise on Twitter (ScrivRec) that I'd write something, sorry it took longer than expected

Couldn't have put it better. I was over the England loss as soon as Jonny May went flying over on Saturday, which was a surprise to me.

It was Gloucester, and players like Sinbad, Fanolua and Forrester playing on the hallowed turf that got me into rugby after all.

HongKongCherry wrote:Cheers Kiwi, I did promise on Twitter (ScrivRec) that I'd write something, sorry it took longer than expected

No worries. I've sent you a PM about publishing it on the Journal.

Cardiff first, Wales second for me.

Always Wales first.I am not a footie fan.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Always Wales first.I am not a footie fan.

So have you ever supported a Welsh rugby club, week in week out, rain or shine, good times and bad etc?

Abertillery RFC.Why do you ask?

Taffineastbourne wrote:Abertillery RFC.Why do you ask?

That makes perfect sense. You don't support one of the regions then I take it?

Dragons is my Region obviously.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Dragons is my Region obviously.

Sorry, didn't realise Abertillery was Newport GD territory. So the Drags are your team then. Is that right?

Abertillery are my club,Dragons are my Region.

Taffineastbourne wrote:Abertillery are my club,Dragons are my Region.

You're not giving much away Taff. Are you passionate about Newport GD? Do you attend games at Rodney Parade etc?

The bigger the Nation the easier it is to separate the emotions of club from country. The two don't rely on each other so much as fewer players from each respective club are called to International duty. But in smaller countries that relationship between 'club' and nation is inescapably stronger.

Leinster win, Ireland lose - furious

Leinster lose, Ireland win - not happy, unsettled.

Leinster win, Ireland win - ecstatic

Leinster lose, Ireland lose - deeply depressed.

Point is I feel very similar about all the Irish provinces (Connacht were destoyed last night...... very disappointed). And that can only mean what I actually already know it means - Ireland is much more important to me than my particular club(Province).

And that's the small country paradox, the success of and enjoyment from all Provinces is essential to [not exclusive to] my continued hopes for Ireland.

I'm not even a supporter of any particular club but I prefer club rugby to International rugby. I enjoy the England games and tend to watch them all. But I care more about the premiership. Why? I'm not really sure. Funnily, regarding football fans, I only watch soccer during World/European Cups. Always have done even when I was growing up in Stoke (definitely football country) and didn't really know anything about rugby.

After today's game I'm now country over club

I'm with you HKC. It's always Tigers first as far as I'm concerned.

Btw, what would Teague,Woodman, Vicks and Burton make of Glos' capitulation in the mud and rain today?.......very un-Glos.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:Abertillery are my club,Dragons are my Region.

You're not giving much away Taff. Are you passionate about Newport GD? Do you attend games at Rodney Parade etc?

Being deemed unemployable and living in East Sussex ,I cannot afford to go and watch Eastbourne RFC.Hitchhiking to Newport,sneaking in without paying and hitchhiking back home doesnt really seem an option!

The way I see the provincial rugby in SA, it is merely provinces competing for dominance in our country, where as the springboks fight for dominance of the world.

That to me is something I can be proud of, when my country wins.

Interesting question - I reckon it depends on how you first got into rugby.

When I was a kid, I lived in the US, so my first experience of watching rugby was on tapes that my dad's Welsh colleague would give us - we got all the five nations games each year (my first exposure to Bill McLaren). As far as club sports were concerned, I didn't need or want anything beyond baseball!

Since I moved back to the UK, I began to enjoy club rugby, but it doesn't quite have that same feeling of history, rivalry, etc.

The club/country conflict came up recently from an unexpected place - my girlfriend wanted me to have Sunday lunch with her parents on the same day that Scotland were playing France. Now normally, what she wants, she gets (it's easier on my ears), but I have my limits, and I wasn't about to spend the day listening to her father drown on about Wendyball ("Emirites stadium season ticket-holder, don't yeew know...") when Mr Hogg was getting his first start. So I had to persuade her to persuade them to postpone it by a week. She did. It's sweet.

The reason she was particularly perturbed by this was that I'd normally miss a club game if we're going out, and she was worried that I actually just don't like her parents. I had to explain the distinction between international and club games, and their relative importance, while claiming that I find her parents delightful (I don't. They're idiots).

So, imagine my surprise when I came home to find this thread! 606v2 is just a but freaky sometimes.

I have to admit i'm about 40/60 England/Quins.

I enjoy the international matches and can still feel gutted after a loss, but I just don't feel as connected as I do with my club.

I see the Quins lads at my local gym so get to chat to them when they're not massively busy killing themselves on the weights. It helps me feel a lot more involved with the club and when Quins play well and win I feel a lot better, likewise the rage and despair when they lose.

My first experience of a live game was watching Quins win the Parker Pen Cup (?) many years ago. This has stuck with me ever since and is one of my fondest memories. I just can't see an over priced, over hyped, underwhelming England game comparing to it.

Last week i went to my fisrt six nations match - Ireland v italy. It was an enjoyable enough afternoon. But with a 2 1/2 hour journey down and a pretty dull atmosphere and overpriced crappy hot dog. I decided there and then that I would have went to the Ulster match that weekend instead.

That could well have been because it was Italy we played (no offence Italy). I imagine the effort and money might have been more worth it if it had been wales england or france playing.

Ultimatly though, It annoys me greatly when my friends who are part time rugby fans go mad for six nations but wouldnt turn the tv on for a provincial match. For me Heineken Cup especially is far better viewing than 6Nations.

Great Article HKC, I didn't know you had it in you!

Did you enjoy the weekends game

Like HKC - I have much more connection with my club, Tigers, than my country. again, repeating his words (or paraphrasing) this is because it is easier to get close to them and it is much more regular. The club are there for me every week during the season, England flounce into my life briefly then bugger off again.

Tigers are like a faithfull dog - always around offering me love and affection.

England are like a cat - only show up when they want something.

However, while Tigers mean more to me - does not mean England mean nothing. My order of preference in terms of winning trophies would be:

1) England WC
2) Tigers HC
3) England GS
4) Tigers AP
5) England 6N Champions (no GS)
6) Tigers Amlin
7) England Triple Crown no Championship
8) Tigers LV win.

HongKongCherry wrote:After today's game I'm now country over club

A positive to cling on to..... you were in the lead at one stage.

Normally in the SH, the club and country season doesn´t clash so you can support your local and national side. I sympathise with not being in the same boat with Gloucester and England. Then again your club saved you watching a defeat so it´s not all bad.

Even if the matches did not clash, there is almost no chance that the people who watch rugby every week could actually get a ticket for Twickenham.

HERSH wrote:Great Article HKC, I didn't know you had it in you!

Did you enjoy the weekends game

Thanks HERSH and no I bl**dy didn't!!!

To be fair to Glaws it was very muddy!

HERSH wrote:

To be fair to Glaws it was very muddy!

I know, but maybe our easy win in the mud a few weeks earlier meant we were too over confident of another straightforward win...

In the Mud:

Leicester >> Gloucester >> Bath.

Expecting much rain down there between now and Friday evening?