Is arrogant the most mis-used word in Sport/Boxing????

How many times do you hear an expert say "He's got that arrogance about him"....."He's young and arrogant"....as If it's a badge of honor!!!

Why the heck is it good to be arrogant?? By definition arrogant people are ignorant..feel they are superior...insolent and generally overblown egotists!!!

Why is this a good thing to be for any sportsman???? In my experience most arrogant people can't communicate properly, never learn from their mistakes..always blame other people for their problems and once their egos have been dealt a big blow (Hamed etc) find it hard to re-adjust...

For sure being confident is a wonderful thing....

But surely "Arrogant" is the most mis-used word in Sport???

Agree with your points Truss, but in the boxing world, a fighter needs to have a bit of "arrogance" to fill his self belief that he/she is the best out there.

Look at some of the great fighters such as Mayweather, Ali, Lewis, Khan (to an extent).......all have/had arrogance and have gone on to achieve good things.


Broner is as "arrogant" as they come, but looks class.

What would he be without it?

I was irrelevant a minute a go...you want to make your mind up!!

I don't see why you can't be confident without being arrogant!!

No i didnt say YOU were irrelavant, i said that the POSTS were. They came across as negative and over the top.

Anyway................


I agree. There should be a fine line between arrogance and confidence.


For example, Andre Ward. Comes across very confident, full of respect and does the job and does it well.


Then Mayweather, top p4per with Manny, arrogant and disrespectful at times, but yet undefeated, multi weight, etc etc.

There is a thin line, one in which will probably always be there.


Arrogance tends to split the audience as well.........

What's the difference between confidence and arrogance?

Its a hard difference to define - it definitely exists - but to put it in words is difficult.

When you wander into the ring - or, for that matter, any other sports field - you have to be absolutely clear in your mind - that you are going to be victorious and things are going to go your way.

When Ali was asked about golf - and gave his famous quote - "I've never played it but I'm the greatest" - that is a winners mentality. HOWEVER - when Mayweather says I'm the greatest of all time because I've never lost and there's no blueprint - that comes across as disrespecting those who came before - and that is seen as arrogance.

There is no one point when someone is either arrogant or just confident - its always going to be on a case by case basis.

oxring wrote:What's the difference between confidence and arrogance?

Its a hard difference to define - it definitely exists - but to put it in words is difficult.

When you wander into the ring - or, for that matter, any other sports field - you have to be absolutely clear in your mind - that you are going to be victorious and things are going to go your way.

When Ali was asked about golf - and gave his famous quote - "I've never played it but I'm the greatest" - that is a winners mentality. HOWEVER - when Mayweather says I'm the greatest of all time because I've never lost and there's no blueprint - that comes across as disrespecting those who came before - and that is seen as arrogance.

There is no one point when someone is either arrogant or just confident - its always going to be on a case by case basis.

Not sure i agree. Ali should be seen as arrogant for declaring he is the greatest at a game he wasnt professional at.

Mayweather simply stated a fact that he was undefeated and nobody has found the blue print to beat him........which is 100% true.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I was irrelevant a minute a go...you want to make your mind up!!

I don't see why you can't be confident without being arrogant!!

You still are haha

Back to the topic. I can't stand arrogant boxers.

DeGale really winds me up, especially in the lead to the Groves fight. But pundits and fans a like didn't help him by boosting his ego to monolithic proportions. I think this fuelled him up to acting even more like a twerp and look at him now after one razor edge defeat.

Arrogance like that only works if you have got the talent to back it up, cos you basically have fans tuning in vying for blood to see you defeated. Once that aura has gone, it’s hard to start from scratch again.

Arrogance = Intolerance to others...feeling of superiority..insolence...being dismissive of opposing views..inflated ego.. etc...

One can assume you can be confident in your own ability without having the other baggage...someone arrogant has!!

I apologise d26 If I took your words the wrong way....and retract anything abusive I might have said..

Think Degale is a good example of arrogance working against you..

Imagine he's awful to try and train and help.....

I imagine he's so up his own backside a PLAN B never entered his head...when he needed to re-evaluate against Groves he didn't have the capacity...

Fairplay to you soldier...

Not a problem. Okay then, who would you class as Arrogant in the sport today. Top 5. Then a list of top 5 who are simply confident.

Arrogance:

1. Broner - Ridiculous
2. Mayweather - Calmed down recently
3. Haye - No comment
4. Guerrero - Gobbing off recently about how he is the greatest
5. Amir Khan


Confident:

1. Ward
2. Pacquiao
3. Bradley
4. Klitschko
5. Martinez

Don't know really.......As I only see the side of these guys they want to see......A lot of them are showman....

My bugbear is that commentators and so-called experts seem to think being arrogant is a good thing...

Me I think a lot of confidence is great but there is a big difference between a lot of confidence and arrogance!!!

But your lists seem to hit the mark..

Don't get me wrong d260005p - Ali was incredibly arrogant - just saying I understood where he was coming from with that quote.

As far as your lists go - the common feature is "falling short".

Mayweather declaring he is a great would not be seen as arrogant by anyone but the most hardcore of Floyd-haters. However - Mayweather declaring he is p4p the greatest when he doesn't have the resume for it - he cops the abuse for falling short.

Haye was supposed to be the breath of fresh air in the HW division. he was going to blow the Kbros away. It was going to be a decapitation job. As it was - he hardly won a round after a series of disappointing HW contests. When he said he was going to blow Enzo away and did - that was confidence.

Whilst I still stand by what I said above - that the difference between arrogance and confidence is hard to define - if I tried to define it, I would say something like this.

The difference between the actual abilities of an individual and the self-perceived abilities of said individual, as expressed either through introspection or public statement, is where arrogance lies. Confidence occurs when real performance and perceived ability are of the same level. The greater the difference between actual ability and perceived ability, the greater the individual's arrogance.

Furthermore, I agree with your point about commentators Truss. Confidence is good in a boxer - arrogance often turns casual fans off.

Guerrero arrogant? Nah nah, doubt it. Guy nearly lost his wife to lieukemia, stuff like that would humble anyone, I'd put him in the other category overall.

I like an arrogant boxer as long as they back it up. Ali was as arrogant as anyone who has ever boxed but he backed it up. The same goes with Mayweather.

Broner is another he is so arrogant but he near enough always impresses so I like it. Without strong self belief you will get nowhere in life.

d260005p wrote:

oxring wrote:What's the difference between confidence and arrogance?

Its a hard difference to define - it definitely exists - but to put it in words is difficult.

When you wander into the ring - or, for that matter, any other sports field - you have to be absolutely clear in your mind - that you are going to be victorious and things are going to go your way.

When Ali was asked about golf - and gave his famous quote - "I've never played it but I'm the greatest" - that is a winners mentality. HOWEVER - when Mayweather says I'm the greatest of all time because I've never lost and there's no blueprint - that comes across as disrespecting those who came before - and that is seen as arrogance.

There is no one point when someone is either arrogant or just confident - its always going to be on a case by case basis.

Not sure i agree. Ali should be seen as arrogant for declaring he is the greatest at a game he wasnt professional at.

Mayweather simply stated a fact that he was undefeated and nobody has found the blue print to beat him........which is 100% true.

No, he stated an opinion. That just because he was currently unbeaten (a fact) he was therefore the greatest of all time. He probably doesn't get inside anyone's Top 10 p4p ATG listings (except PBF/Shantel, and I think Truss might have him close [10-12]) therefore his comments were a sign of arrogance over confidence.

Mayweather is top 10 for me..............

Over a decade's longevity.....greats on his record...belongs with the very best as far as I'm concerned....

Yeh, I remembered you had him high, just couldn't remember quite how high.

To me arrogance suggests disrespect of an opponent. It's hard to to sum up but I'd put it like this:

Confidence is knowing you can beat someone, arrogance is thinking you're better than them

What if you are better than them?

Truss, don't you think Mayweather needs Pacquiao to really have a top ten claim?

Have to admit, mind you, that he's a lot closer than I've previously given him credit for. The more I think about it, the more I begin to think I've been harsh on him in the past in that respect. Recently revisited Floyd and I'd certainly have him creeping in to my top twenty, albeit at the low end.

A win over Cotto maybe nudges him a spot or so higher (I've currently got him a shade ahead of Chavez and Arguello, but a tiny little whisker behind Pep and Saddler, for instance) but if he beats Pacquiao he'd be right on the cusp of my top ten, probably just inside it. If he added Alvarez (to earn total acceptance as 154 lb champion) on top of that, he'd absolutely sail in to my ten with ease.

The most mis-used word in boxing is "Robbery".

I think legend or great are somewhere near the top - however the one word most overused eclipses nearly all other overused words combined. Bum

For me, arrogance is usually a sign that a person is trying to hide an insecurity; most arrogant people don't actually believe they're as good as they say they are. Someone with confidence, on the other hand, doesn't have this issue. They're aware of their capabilities but don't feel the necessity to lord it over everybody else. I guess the old adage "actions speak louder than words" apply to such people.

MediaCat wrote:For me, arrogance is usually a sign that a person is trying to hide an insecurity; most arrogant people don't actually believe they're as good as they say they are. Someone with confidence, on the other hand, doesn't have this issue. They're aware of their capabilities but don't feel the necessity to lord it over everybody else. I guess the old adage "actions speak louder than words" apply to such people.

Think Floyd is an example of that - his confidence in his abilities is impregnable - his nonchalance in how he is percieved is a front - occasionally seems to lose control of himself when he protests his legacy being questioned.

"Arrogant" isn't the most misuse word/phrase in boxing..."World Class" is.

However, re arrogance, to be perfectly honest, I don't think the word is used with anything like the frequency your article would seem to suggest.

I'm not saying it's never used but it's not a word that leaps out at me when listening to commentary or reading articles.

Everything is relative....Certainly more frequent than Bradley Pryce articles are these days!!

oxring wrote:Don't get me wrong d260005p - Ali was incredibly arrogant - just saying I understood where he was coming from with that quote.

As far as your lists go - the common feature is "falling short".

Mayweather declaring he is a great would not be seen as arrogant by anyone but the most hardcore of Floyd-haters. However - Mayweather declaring he is p4p the greatest when he doesn't have the resume for it - he cops the abuse for falling short.

Haye was supposed to be the breath of fresh air in the HW division. he was going to blow the Kbros away. It was going to be a decapitation job. As it was - he hardly won a round after a series of disappointing HW contests. When he said he was going to blow Enzo away and did - that was confidence.

Whilst I still stand by what I said above - that the difference between arrogance and confidence is hard to define - if I tried to define it, I would say something like this.

Makes no sense to me that, arrogance is when you lose but it's confidence when you do the job? Thinking you're better than you are isn't really arrognace, it's sort of just being delusional, or plain and simple, incorrect.

AlexHuckerby wrote:arrogance is when you lose but it's confidence when you do the job? Thinking you're better than you are isn't really arrognace, it's sort of just being delusional, or plain and simple, incorrect...

Makes no sense to me that,

Your statement, above, does indeed make little sense, but it isn't an accurate reflection of what I am trying to postulate.

I am proposing the hypothesis that an individual will be deemed arrogant when there is a large and obvious margin between their actual abilities and their stated abilities.

Were I to tell you I had the knowledge and skills base of a second year (F2) doctor - that would be arrogant - I'm a final year medical student. I haven't had that extra 2 years of experience so it is a patently untrue point.
Were I to tell you that I had the knowledge and skills base of a foundation doctor - that would be self-confidence. I've passed finals - so I have to have the knowledge and skills of an average foundation doctor.

Were Martinez to say he was the best Middleweight on the planet - no-one would accuse him of arrogance - he patently is and the reality agrees with the opinion.

Were Martinez to say he was the greatest MW who ever lived - whilst, yes, it would be an opinion to which he is completely entitled - given the likes of Robinson, Ketchel, Greb, Monzon - all of whom have plied their trade in the division and on skillset and abilities are all patently better.

But even if Martinez were to say he was the greatest Middleweight of all time, of course I would disagree, but to me that doesn't make him arrogant, just like I said, it would make him either incorrect, or delusional.

No it wouldn't it would make him a confident man who believes who could beat anyone. That's how the elite think they are winners and don't consider defeat.

Pretty sure that would be seen as arrogant Alex. Delusional occurs only if the reality is a long way from the opinion. So Martinez insisting he was the greatest man who ever walked, for instance.

A confident man who believes he can beat anyone doesn't need to tell anyone they can beat anyone.

A lot is made of this "winners" mentality - but it is, in reality, much, much too simple.

I have known people, personally in fighting sports - who, even when faced with a tough contest as a major underdog - have, like some rabid dog, frothing at the mouth, spent their time insisting, if asked - that they would comprehensively "destroy" or "demolish" their opponents. When the combat occurred, and they lost hopelessly - they were bemused - but insisted things would be different next time.

A madman can have that attitude.

Roy Jones Jr summed things up better than I can - by describing the mentality of a fighter and a winner. "You could get badly hurt. And you've got to know that. You could die. And you've got to know that". Knowing what could befall - facing up to it and overcoming it - that's a warriors mentality and a winners mentality.

Anyway - going back to the arrogance point - all of this came in the first place from an attempt, by me - to define what "arrogance" was - as opposed to just plain self confidence.

It is my belief that arrogance can be harmful - and that arrogance, as mentioned, reflects a difference between real abilities and self-perceived ability.

A decent example (although a bit of an oversimplification) of harmful arrogance could be Prince Naseem. His self belief that he was unbeatable and that his punch would stop anyone - was shattered by one defeat - and he never recovered.

Thoughts and opinions - is arrogance harmful? And if it doesn't lie within my definition - would someone else like to try for a decent definition with respect to boxing?