Blindside Choices of the Home Nations?

by maestegmafia Sat 31 Mar 2012, 10:34 pm

First topic message reminder :

Lets look at who the board rate as the best Blindsides possible suggestions for the Lions next year.

Pick TWO Blindsides from the Poll below.

by **rodders** Sun 01 Apr 2012, 10:30 am

Aye only messing Killer Wink

Crofts a good player, bags of pace in the loose and brilliant lineout player.

Take him if you want I just think there are better players in a very competitive area. Ferris and Lydiate are the top two for me.

Australia aren't the most physical side though so perhaps this is a tour for croft?

No mention of James Haskell?

by A World Cup and 3 Finals Sun 01 Apr 2012, 11:02 am

Croft, no contest. Had both Ferris and Lydiate in his pocket during the 6N. Move on, next debate!

by maestegmafia Sun 01 Apr 2012, 2:14 pm

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:Croft, no contest. Had both Ferris and Lydiate in his pocket during the 6N. Move on, next debate!

Ha ha ha...!

He was on the wing as per usual leaving the rest of the pack to do his jobs.

by Artful_Dodger Sun 01 Apr 2012, 2:50 pm

Ferris and Lydiate for me - Croft is so over hyped, Ferris destroyed him Ulster vs Leicester in the HC recently, 36 point win, Croft was absolutely anonymous in that game.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 01 Apr 2012, 3:20 pm

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:Croft, no contest. Had both Ferris and Lydiate in his pocket during the 6N. Move on, next debate!

April fools?

by Looseheaded Sun 01 Apr 2012, 3:42 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:Croft, no contest. Had both Ferris and Lydiate in his pocket during the 6N. Move on, next debate!

April fools?

by maestegmafia Sun 01 Apr 2012, 4:28 pm

Looseheaded wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:Croft, no contest. Had both Ferris and Lydiate in his pocket during the 6N. Move on, next debate!

April fools?

Must be...! Any blindside Flanker scoring that many tries is not doing his day job...!

by drsambo1928 Sun 01 Apr 2012, 7:32 pm

Croft cannot go as he wouldn't be able to live with the Aussie backrow. Granted he's very fast but i'd rather have a player who could knock a player backwards then one who can imitate a wing.

by Standulstermen Sun 01 Apr 2012, 7:58 pm

Ferris and lydiate for me although dan should have one more vote as I mistakenly only voted for one person.

by drsambo1928 Sun 01 Apr 2012, 7:59 pm

It just has to be Ferris and Lydiate, the rest are not near them.

by Taffineastbourne Sun 01 Apr 2012, 8:13 pm

Nobody near Lydiate.Ferris is tidy but over-hyped.The stats that I have made up prove this without question!

by drsambo1928 Sun 01 Apr 2012, 8:20 pm

Ferris is not over hyped. I don't know why people think Lydiate should start ahead of him. Everyone seems to be fooled by the award he got. Who won that award in 2011. Andrea Masi. Was he player of the tornument. I think not. Lydiate is just not as good as Ferris and while he is an exceptional player. He's not that good.

by Standulstermen Sun 01 Apr 2012, 8:45 pm

drsambo1928 wrote:Ferris is not over hyped. I don't know why people think Lydiate should start ahead of him. Everyone seems to be fooled by the award he got. Who won that award in 2011. Andrea Masi. Was he player of the tornument. I think not. Lydiate is just not as good as Ferris and while he is an exceptional player. He's not that good.

As much as I agree with the sentiment sambo you do realise the massive contradiction in your last sentence.

by The Bachelor Sun 01 Apr 2012, 8:50 pm

I voted for Lydiate, but I appreciate being told how inferior he is to Ferris and that I've been fooled by his award.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 01 Apr 2012, 8:51 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:Nobody near Lydiate.Ferris is tidy but over-hyped.The stats that I have made up prove this without question!

Well, I'm glad you have to make up stats to make Lydiate seem good.. whatever keeps you happy!

by drsambo1928 Sun 01 Apr 2012, 8:55 pm

Standulstermen wrote:
drsambo1928 wrote:Ferris is not over hyped. I don't know why people think Lydiate should start ahead of him. Everyone seems to be fooled by the award he got. Who won that award in 2011. Andrea Masi. Was he player of the tornument. I think not. Lydiate is just not as good as Ferris and while he is an exceptional player. He's not that good.

As much as I agree with the sentiment sambo you do realise the massive contradiction in your last sentence.

I never said Lydiate was bad I just don't think he should start ahead of Ferris.(and he shouldn't have won the best player of the 6n)

by Taffineastbourne Sun 01 Apr 2012, 9:04 pm

I have faith that the Lions selectors will go with their best backrow.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sun 01 Apr 2012, 9:06 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:Nobody near Lydiate.Ferris is tidy but over-hyped.The stats that I have made up prove this without question!

Taff, genius, loving your work Laugh

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Sun 01 Apr 2012, 9:08 pm

Btw, can we all just agree that cos Barclay is a 7, his votes get added to Kelly Brown? Excellent

by drsambo1928 Sun 01 Apr 2012, 9:11 pm

I'm sorry but it must be Ferris with Lydiate on the bench. Thats if you guys who prefer Lydiate want the best 6 to actually sub.

6. Ferris
19.Lydiate

by slartibartfast Sun 01 Apr 2012, 9:33 pm

I've gone with lydiate, here's my reasoning...

it seems to me stats show both players are on top of their game

(who ever said lydiate doesn't put in big hits didn't see the French game)

The real comparison was the RWC where the welsh back row came out on top. Also no one seems to rate Toby at 8 and Warburton was injured for much of the last tournament. So either Wales got by with a poor back row or lydiate did a lot of hidden work.

Perhaps he needs to wear an orange scrum cap.

I was going to say I'd rather lydiate go under the radar, but just remembered that he got player of the 6N.

by drsambo1928 Sun 01 Apr 2012, 9:52 pm

Warburton will do the unseen work in Australia. The 6 needs to be hard hitting and a great ball carrier i.e. Ferris, not Lydiate. Faletau is not spoken about because this isnt the number 8 thread. However I would pick Faletau to start in Australia.

by Looseheaded Sun 01 Apr 2012, 10:36 pm

drsambo1928 wrote:Warburton will do the unseen work in Australia. The 6 needs to be hard hitting and a great ball carrier i.e. Ferris, not Lydiate. Faletau is not spoken about because this isnt the number 8 thread. However I would pick Faletau to start in Australia.

Warburton doesn't do unseen work. He makes exceptional firstman turn overs.

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 01 Apr 2012, 10:58 pm

Yeah, Lydiate does the unseen stuff that nobody sees. That is what makes him so good you see. Because you don't see. See?

by maestegmafia Sun 01 Apr 2012, 11:10 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yeah, Lydiate does the unseen stuff that nobody sees. That is what makes him so good you see. Because you don't see. See?

Lydiate's impact is pretty obvious, plenty of key turnovers, critical offensive defence i think the americans call it.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 01 Apr 2012, 11:20 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:Nobody near Lydiate.Ferris is tidy but over-hyped.The stats that I have made up prove this without question!

Is this blind faith with rose tinted specs.

Or something akin to a dodgy dossier laughing

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 01 Apr 2012, 11:21 pm

I thought the whole point of Lydiate is that his work is unseen though? I have also heard him described as having a Richard Hill impact, where the team suffers in his absence. Well, I thought Ryan Jones performed admirably in the first game against Ireland..

by Taffineastbourne Sun 01 Apr 2012, 11:43 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Nobody near Lydiate.Ferris is tidy but over-hyped.The stats that I have made up prove this without question!

Is this blind faith with rose tinted specs.

Or something akin to a dodgy dossier

This was an attempt at humour.Ferris has his Irish fans.Lydiate has the rest of the world in his corner.Perhaps if Ireland had beaten Wales in their last 3 meetings the much-vaunted Irish backrow could be taken more seriously. Rolling Eyes

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 01 Apr 2012, 11:55 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Nobody near Lydiate.Ferris is tidy but over-hyped.The stats that I have made up prove this without question!

Is this blind faith with rose tinted specs.

Or something akin to a dodgy dossier
This was an attempt at humour.Ferris has his Irish fans.Lydiate has the rest of the world in his corner.Perhaps if Ireland had beaten Wales in their last 3 meetings the much-vaunted Irish backrow could be taken more seriously.

Yeah got that but I'm English & would favour Ferris & Croft.

Did you have a second choice or run out of welsh options?

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 01 Apr 2012, 11:57 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Nobody near Lydiate.Ferris is tidy but over-hyped.The stats that I have made up prove this without question!

Is this blind faith with rose tinted specs.

Or something akin to a dodgy dossier
This was an attempt at humour.Ferris has his Irish fans.Lydiate has the rest of the world in his corner.Perhaps if Ireland had beaten Wales in their last 3 meetings the much-vaunted Irish backrow could be taken more seriously.

I love how apparently the rest of the world is in Lydiates corner apparently.. I think you will find Lydiate has his welsh fans Wink

by Rory_Gallagher Sun 01 Apr 2012, 11:59 pm

Also, going by the poll it is obvious a few people have one voted Lydiate, not picking a second option, in order to bump up his votes Laugh

by maestegmafia Mon 02 Apr 2012, 7:36 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Also, going by the poll it is obvious a few people have one voted Lydiate, not picking a second option, in order to bump up his votes

Mate this is a bit of fun not a political conspiracy.

by irnbrew Mon 02 Apr 2012, 9:04 am

Lydiate voted manof the 6 nations by the public also voted player of the 6 nations by the magazine rugby planet also by the Telegraph readers English paper also by the majority of T.V.pundits and 7 out of 8 sports writers in England the other one went for Ferris .This is not about me saying who is best i.m not getting into that debate what i am saying Lydiate got overwelmingly voted player of the 6 nations so show a bit of respect and stop trying to belittle his achievement And i am not Welsh Nor Irish

by **rodders** Mon 02 Apr 2012, 9:24 am

To be honest I don't think the 6N player of the tournament means much. Bowe and O'driscoll have won it in the past without doing much.

I suspect many English pundits took little interest in any of Ireland games bar against England so I wouldn't pay much attention to their view either.

Ireland as a team had a poor tournament but Ferris had an exceptional one. Along with Rob Kearney he was Irelands best player by a country mile and the best player on the pitch in at least 3 games. His Ulster form has been outstanding too, much better than on the 2009 Lions tour.

by glamorganalun Tue 03 Apr 2012, 9:08 pm

Ryan Jones played 6 against Ireland not on the list, he was probably the best forward on the park during that game, in the following games he played 4, 6 and 7 although his best position is 8. Gatland had his reasons for picking an 8 that loses control of the ball at the back of the scrum. I did not vote as the list was not complete.

by flyhalffactory Tue 03 Apr 2012, 9:38 pm

100% Agree with glamorganalun

Jones was superb for Wales and offers versatility and a different style to the blindside channel but arguably as effective if you play a faster distributor at scrumhalf for the Lions

Certainly should be in the list

by Casartelli Tue 03 Apr 2012, 10:08 pm

100% agree with flyhalffactory (why is that so hard to say out loud???)

I always agree with glamorganalun.

Ryan Jones was magnificent in the 6N and should be on the list.

by dragonbreath Tue 03 Apr 2012, 10:33 pm

Shock horror, Irish think Ferris is a God and for the Welsh Lydiate is the man

Perhaps the deciding factor should be the player who actually impacts the performance of his team the most and contributes most to their success (I think you know where I am going with this but please make your own minds up)

Please help me here but I cannot off the top of my head think of a single recent game that Ireland has won in which Ferris has been outstanding and the difference between the teams. I certainly can't remember an occasion when he has caused Wales too many problems

If I had to put my life on the result of a game my 6 would be Lydiate he is fearless and manically committed, but they are quite different players and its down to what you like from a 6 nationality shouldn't come into it.

The tour down under this summer may well decide who gets the nod as Gatland puts his plan together based upon how Wales go

by nathan Tue 03 Apr 2012, 10:52 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Looseheaded wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:Croft, no contest. Had both Ferris and Lydiate in his pocket during the 6N. Move on, next debate!

April fools?

Must be...! Any blindside Flanker scoring that many tries is not doing his day job...!

you welshies still spouting the same crap.....

Isnt the idea of rugby to score tries.....

by Cadair Idris Tue 03 Apr 2012, 10:58 pm

dragonbreath wrote:Shock horror, Irish think Ferris is a God and for the Welsh Lydiate is the man

Perhaps the deciding factor should be the player who actually impacts the performance of his team the most and contributes most to their success (I think you know where I am going with this but please make your own minds up)

Please help me here but I cannot off the top of my head think of a single recent game that Ireland has won in which Ferris has been outstanding and the difference between the teams. I certainly can't remember an occasion when he has caused Wales too many problems

If I had to put my life on the result of a game my 6 would be Lydiate he is fearless and manically committed, but they are quite different players and its down to what you like from a 6 nationality shouldn't come into it.

The tour down under this summer may well decide who gets the nod as Gatland puts his plan together based upon how Wales go

Spot on. The constant Ferris v Lydiate debate is understandable with a lions tour next year but they are both excellent if different 6s. There's a bit of banter on this thread but they both had excellent 6 nations and anyone belittling lydiate for about the "unseen work" cliches is just being a bit ridiculous in my view. Plus the tackle count stats is surely a bit of a limited way of analysing their performance - we hardly had any tackles to make against Italy! And the importance of individual tackles all depends on the context of the game situation etc.

Anyone who actually watched the Wales v France game would surely acknowledge that without Lydiate on the pitch we may well not have won the grand slam. He was superb. Ferris is a great player with a more all round game, Croft has his strengths, but Lydiate just won us a grand slam. I honestly wouldn't have wanted any other 6 in the world on the pitch for Wales iin that 2nd half against France. Apart from Ryan Jones maybe, who happily had come on at no. 8 thumbsup

by drsambo1928 Tue 03 Apr 2012, 11:15 pm

Can we all agree on a Lydiate and Ferris double blindside act. No other blindside is on both of their level.

by Comfort Wed 04 Apr 2012, 11:36 am

I voted Ferris/Lydiate. If you cant appreciate Lydiate, you cant appreciate the art of defence, he does much more than just tackle that im not even going to get into that argument.

I thin kthey'll both go, and I think Croft will battle Ryan Jones for the back 5 cover position.

by wickedwasp Wed 04 Apr 2012, 11:55 am

killer938 wrote:And then he went and outplayed Ferris for England against Ireland so I guess Ferris shouldn't be picked either then if we are basing out choices on one game, eh Roddersm?

He gives you a completely different dimension and even coming off the bench, if we are chasing the game, he would be invaluable. He showed how good he can be on the last Lions tour and then again against France and Ireland more recently and his performances are getting more and more consistent.

+1

Ferris & Croft - totally different types, which gives you options

by **rodders** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 12:20 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
Please help me here but I cannot off the top of my head think of a single recent game that Ireland has won in which Ferris has been outstanding and the difference between the teams.

I can think of several. Along with Rob Kearney hes been Irelands best player by a distance this season and was instrumental against Scotland, Italy and Australia last Autumn as well as the draw against France.

His Ulster form has been even better and he must be a front runner for HEC player of the season.

Ferris and Lydiate must be the outstanding choices at blindside but I can see SOB or Croft getting on the plane too.

Ryan Jones deserves a mention. He's probably been Wales best backrower and is a darkhorse for the tour aswell.

by WELL-PAST-IT Wed 04 Apr 2012, 12:38 pm

It will depend on the game plan, Ferri/Lydiate are similar types of player, I am not going to get into the arguement about which is best. Croft is a completely different sort of player and will be especially good on the hard grounds in Aus.

Either Ferris or Lydiate will go with Croft going as the alternative game style 6. Taking both Ferris and Lydiate results in a lack of choices with game plan and trying to change the shape of the game.

Croft has proved he can do it at the level required on the last Lions tour, he is a known quantity at this level. Whether Gatland choses a game style that will suit him is another question.

by dragonbreath Wed 04 Apr 2012, 12:55 pm

roddersm wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
Please help me here but I cannot off the top of my head think of a single recent game that Ireland has won in which Ferris has been outstanding and the difference between the teams.

I can think of several. Along with Rob Kearney hes been Irelands best player by a distance this season and was instrumental against Scotland, Italy and Australia last Autumn as well as the draw against France.

His Ulster form has been even better and he must be a front runner for HEC player of the season.

Ferris and Lydiate must be the outstanding choices at blindside but I can see SOB or Croft getting on the plane too.

Ryan Jones deserves a mention. He's probably been Wales best backrower and is a darkhorse for the tour aswell.

Fair enough you say you can think of several, help me out and name a few

by **rodders** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 12:57 pm

I've named several so if you take one out that would be a few.

by killer938 Wed 04 Apr 2012, 1:09 pm

It is a very nice problem to have but I do think you need variation which is why I think Croft has to go. His game just suits the southern hemisphere and the pitches down there. If you look at the last time England were in Australia we drew that series 1-1 and Croft was outstanding in the both games but particularly the win in the second game. He has a proven record down there with England and then also in South Africa with the Lions.

Plus, if you are talking about games that wouldn't have been won without Lydiate, just watch France v England from this 6N and tell me England would have won that without Croft.

by **Biltong** Wed 04 Apr 2012, 2:44 pm

Croft and Lydiate.

by beshocked Thu 05 Apr 2012, 8:48 am

I feel that with all the hype surrounding Lydiate and Ferris, Brown is under the radar.

Kelly Brown is really unlucky because he missed the 6 nations which would have been an opportunity to impress. He lost his chances of the Scotland captaincy and Scotland seemed to struggle with out him.

I genuinely think that he will force his way into the Lion's squad.

Lydiate and Ferris are the current frontrunners but need to look out for Croft and Brown.

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