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Uncapped Lions squad

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21st Century Schizoid Man
geoff998rugby
dummy_half
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formerly known as Sam
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Post by wickedwasp Tue 3 Apr 2012 - 3:14

This thought was prompted by a couple of things - firstly the thread below by DaveM, showing who Lancaster thinks are England's future prospects, and secondly by the origins of the Lions tour:

The British and Irish Lions (formerly known as the British Isles and the British Lions) is a rugby union team made up of players from England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. The Lions generally select international players; they can pick uncapped players available to one of the four unions, but in recent years this has rarely occurred.

Combined rugby union sides from the then United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland toured in the Southern Hemisphere from 1888 onwards. The first tour took place as a commercial venture, made without official backing, but the six subsequent visits that took place before the 1910 South Africa tour, the first representative of the four Home Unions, enjoyed a growing degree of support from the authorities.

In 1949 the Four Home Unions combined formally to create a Tours Committee and for the first time, every player of the 1950 Lions squad was an international before the New Zealand series.


Re: Other countries will be scared of what England can deliver - Matt Dawson
by DaveM Today at 0:07

.The rugby paper a week or so ago said that SL had identified the follwoing players for 2015:

Props

Marler, Mullan, Catt, Vunipola, Lahiff, Cowan-Dickie, PDJ, Thomas, Brookes, Sinckler

Hookers

George, Gray, Youngs, Spurling, Britton

Locks

Lawes, Attwood, Kitchener, Slater, Launchbury, Matthews, Barrow, Twomey

Flankers

Wood, Gibson, Kvesic, Saull, Clark, Haskell, Gaskell, Itoje

8s

Fearns, Gray, Clifford

9s

Care, Simpson, Spencer, Robson

10s

Ford, Clegg, Heathcote, Cipriani, Slade

Centres

JTH, Mills, Daly, Trinder, Lowe, Joseph, Tomkins

Wings

Benjamin, Elliot, Sharples, May,Wade, Short and Yarde

Full Backs

Goode, Homer, Miller, Watson, Ransom and Nowell


Who knows how accurate this is, and obviously there are a few missing names: Lindsay, Haywood, Burns, Sisi, Wallace, Garvey, Chisholm and Twelvetrees spring immediately to mind (and, for the Newcastle fans - Robinson!), and I reckon Homer will move to 10 or 12. Lots and lots of talent though..

I've crossed out the ones I can remember being capped, but I may have missed one or two, but this would make a good start for a selection of uncapped English players for the Lions.

So, an opportunity to look at strength in depth & potential coming through. If you were proposing players from your country for an uncapped British & Irish Lions squad, who would you suggest?

To include our SH brethren in this, if we made it an uncapped competition, who are your uncapped selections to face this touring side?

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Post by red_stag Tue 3 Apr 2012 - 9:52

This is the best uncapped team I can come up with for Ireland

01 Paddy McAllister
02 Mike Sherry
03 John Andress
04 Ian Nagle
05 Tom Hayes
06 Dominic Ryan
07 Willie Faloon
08 James Coughlan
09 Paul Marshall
10 Ian Madigan
11 Simon Zebo
12 James Downey
13 Eoin O'Malley
14 Craig Gilroy
15 David Kearney

Not sure how many of that list I would consider Lions standard - a handful.
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Post by jay_welsh Tue 3 Apr 2012 - 10:08

Off the top of my head, a Welsh selection could look something like this:

1. Rhodri Jones
2. Kirby Myhill
3. Joe Rees
4. Macauley Cook
5. Dominic Day
6. James King
7. Josh Navidi
8. Keiren Murphy
9. Gareth Davies
10. Jason Tovey
11. Eli Walker
12. Ashley Beck
13. Adam Hughes
14. Harry Robinson
15. Liam Williams

Lots of youngsters, but only Beck really stands out as a potential lion for now.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 3 Apr 2012 - 10:17

Mullan has a solitary cap from a couple of years ago. I think Attwood and Simpson have a cap as well.

England could go with:

1.Marler
2.Gray
3.Harden
4.Garvey
5.Robson
6.Gibson
7.Kvesic
8.Waldrom
9.Spencer
10.Burns
11.Short
12.Twelvetrees
13.Lowe
14.Benjamin
15.Goode

Bench: Brooker, Vunipola, Robson, Wallace, Harrison, Ford, Joseph.

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Post by Pat_Mustard Tue 3 Apr 2012 - 11:14

Scotland: Difficult as many of our most promising young players have been recently capped, have had to resort to the not-yet-qualified Visser on the wing and a fullback on the other wing. Not sure if Mike Cusack is Scottish Qualified so have gone for Niven at tighthead but there could be someone better? Roddy Grant and Colin Gregor have been unlucky to be in positions of strength for Scotland so will probably never be capped, nor will Jim Thompson by the look of things. A few possibilities at second row

1 Grant Shiells
2 Pat McArthur
3 Lewis Niven
4 Grant Gilchrist/Tom Ryder
5 Fraser Mackenzie/Nick Campbell
6 Rob Harley/Stuart McInally
7 Roddy Grant
8 Ryan Wilson

9 Colin Gregor/Ross Samson
10 Harry Leonard
11 Tim Visser
12 James King
13 Alex Dunbar/Mark Bennett
14 Tom Brown
15 Jim Thompson

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Post by wickedwasp Tue 3 Apr 2012 - 11:44

THanks guys - I don't know many young players from the other Lions countries. I must admit I was quite encouraged to see who's coming through for England and it looks as if there's players coming through everywhere which is always good to see.

As to how many of the England hopefuls could be real Lions contenders, far too early to tell I think, but there's a dozen in there that are worth keeping an eye on over the next few years as I think they'll be challenging forInternational places.

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Post by sean.c Tue 3 Apr 2012 - 11:54

I'll give this a go for Ireland but forgive me if my views are Leinster biased

1. Jack McGrath - 22
2. Richardt Strauss - 26
3. Jamie Hagan - 24
4. Mark Flanagan - 22
5. Ian Nagle - 23
6. Dave O'Callaghan - 22
7. Dominic Ryan - 22
8. Leo Auva'a - 27

9. Paul Marshall - 26
10. Ian Madigan - 23
11. Simon Zebo - 22
12. Nevin Spence - 21
13. Eoin O'Malley - 23
14. Dave Kearney - 22
15. Andrew Conway - 20

Avg. Age - 23

I've tried to make the team as young as possible so I left out the likes of Coughlan, Downey and Hayes. Not all are international quality yet but I'd say a fair few of them will be in and around the Irish setup in years to come.

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Post by IanBru Tue 3 Apr 2012 - 12:42

For Scotland
1. Ryan Grant
2. Pat MacArthur
3. Grant Shiels
4. Grant Gilchrist
5. Tom Ryder
6. Rob Harley
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Ryan Wilson

9. Ross Sampson
10. Harry Leonard
11. Timbo Visser
12. Alex Dunbar
13. Mark Bennett
14. Tommy Seymour
15. Tom Brown

Add in Jonny Gray, Tim Swinson, Nick Campbell and Roddy Grant, and we should be alright!
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Post by EnglishReign Wed 4 Apr 2012 - 15:31

Missed out Burns but otherwise, a decent XV could be selected from that list.

Something like:

1.Marler
2.Gray
3.Harden
4.Garvey
5.Robson
6.Gibson
7.Kvesic
8.Waldrom
9.Spencer
10.Burns
11.Short
12.Twelvetrees
13.Trinder
14.May
15.Goode

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Post by George Carlin Thu 5 Apr 2012 - 14:15

IanBru wrote:For Scotland
1. Ryan Grant
2. Pat MacArthur
3. Grant Shiels
4. Grant Gilchrist
5. Tom Ryder
6. Rob Harley
7. Chris Fusaro
8. Ryan Wilson

9. Ross Sampson
10. Harry Leonard
11. Timbo Visser
12. Alex Dunbar
13. Mark Bennett
14. Tommy Seymour
15. Tom Brown

Add in Jonny Gray, Tim Swinson, Nick Campbell and Roddy Grant, and we should be alright!
That list makes me happy, Ian.

Shoiteload of talent there. Visser, Leonard and Bennett could be absolutely golden for Scotland over the next decade.

And this is before we even add Asbo's favourite son, Maitland.
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Post by dummy_half Thu 5 Apr 2012 - 14:24

George

But if Robinson coached them?

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Post by George Carlin Thu 5 Apr 2012 - 14:55

dummy_half wrote:George

But if Robinson coached them?
Oh, well, if AR is still around they will each be getting their first caps aged 34 with Bennett as tighthead, Leonard as main lineout jumper and Visser as hooker.

But only if Graham Morrison's iron lung isn't allowed onto the pitch any more.
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Post by geoff998rugby Thu 5 Apr 2012 - 16:51

Lewis Stevenson would be in my Irish second row and McAllister is the best non capped LH by a country mile.

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Post by IanBru Thu 5 Apr 2012 - 17:59

Does anyone else enjoy it when Morrison wears white boots?

It's as incongruous as when I'm out on the town wearing a t-shirt with the slogan 'magnificent lover'...
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Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man Fri 6 Apr 2012 - 9:00

Ian laughing
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Post by Hookisms and Hyperbole Fri 6 Apr 2012 - 12:24

geoff998rugby wrote:Lewis Stevenson would be in my Irish second row and McAllister is the best non capped LH by a country mile.

I don't want another thread taken over by Ulster fans again (lie, I do), but Lewis Stevenson has really stepped it up in the past two months or so. I was seriously underwhelmed at the start of the season but he has played really well recently. His counter rucking is absolutely superb, though I think his support play and ball carrying needs a lot of work. Obviously all Ulster fans think Dan Tuohy should be pushing for an Irish spot, but I think Stevenson might have pushed Tuohy out of the side for the Munster match- it must have been a borderline call. I think if POC is fit then he might gel really well with Stevenson as a unit.

McAllister for me has real potential but I think his scrummaging has a good bit to go before he is near international standard. That said, his scrummaging is unrecognisable to last season and even the start of this one.

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Post by wales606 Fri 6 Apr 2012 - 12:52

jay_welsh wrote:Off the top of my head, a Welsh selection could look something like this:

1. Rhodri Jones
2. Kirby Myhill
3. Joe Rees
4. Macauley Cook
5. Dominic Day
6. James King
7. Josh Navidi
8. Keiren Murphy
9. Gareth Davies
10. Jason Tovey
11. Eli Walker
12. Ashley Beck
13. Adam Hughes
14. Harry Robinson
15. Liam Williams

Lots of youngsters, but only Beck really stands out as a potential lion for now.

STOP THAT!
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Post by wales606 Fri 6 Apr 2012 - 13:02

Wales

1. Rhodri Jones
2. Kirby Myhill
3. Aaron Jarvis
4. Cory Hill
5. James Downs
6. Andreus Pretorious
7. Josh Navidi
8. Keiren Murphy
9. Gareth Davies
10. Jason Tovey
11. Harry Robinson
12. Ashley Beck
13. Adam Hughes
14. Hanno Dirksen
15. Liam Williams

16. Joe Rees
17. Kristian Dacey
18. Dominic Day
19. Matt Gilbert
20. Wayne Evans
21. Lewis Robling
22. Daffydd Hewitt
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Post by ChequeredJersey Fri 6 Apr 2012 - 13:27

formerly known as Sam wrote:Mullan has a solitary cap from a couple of years ago. I think Attwood and Simpson have a cap as well.

England could go with:

1.Marler
2.Gray
3.Harden
4.Garvey
5.Robson
6.Gibson
7.Kvesic
8.Waldrom
9.Spencer
10.Burns
11.Short
12.Twelvetrees
13.Lowe
14.Benjamin
15.Goode

Bench: Brooker, Vunipola, Robson, Wallace, Harrison, Ford, Joseph.

Add in Wade over Short for me
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Post by Cumbrian Fri 6 Apr 2012 - 13:31

EnglishReign wrote:Missed out Burns but otherwise, a decent XV could be selected from that list.

Something like:

1.Marler
2.Gray
3.Harden
4.Garvey
5.Robson
6.Gibson
7.Kvesic
8.Waldrom
9.Spencer
10.Burns
11.Short
12.Twelvetrees
13.Trinder
14.May
15.Goode


Like the backline, but I would make a couple of changes up front:


01. Joe Marler
02. Tom Lindsay
03. Rupert Harden
04. Matt Garvey
05. Ed Slater
06. Carl Fearns
07. Matt Kvesic
08. Tom Guest

09. Ben Spencer
10. Freddie Burns

11. James Short
12. Billy Twelvetrees
13. Henry Trinder
14. Jonny May
15. Alex Goode


A big and physical, but mobile pack. They wouldn't get bullied and would hopefully supply quick ball to the exciting backs. Would suffer in the set piece though.
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