606 Wales team for Aus tour

At this stage of Wales development I would take a low risk development team down to Aus. For me going down all guns blazing with our best players and showing our lions hand is just too risky. Especially if we don't manage a series win.

This is a nothing tour and there is not a lot this welsh team can accomplish post world cup year. If we managed a win it's because theyre restructuring, if we don't it'd be hillarious for them!

I'd take a lot of first teamers but leave key players at home, if nothing else to get some depth in those positions.

I would leave the likes of...

Adam Jones
Matthew Rees
Gethin Jenkins
Warburton
Falatau
Phillips

We know what these players give us, but there are question marks of the players behind them. I want to see Gill, Mitchell, Owens, Tipuric, maybe Delve a chance.

My 30 man squad would look like this...

Gill
Owens
Mitchell
Charteris
Evans
Shinglar
Tipuric
Delve
Williams
Preistland
Cuthbert
JD2
Williams
North
Byrne

That'd be my first 15, then...

Paul James
Bennet
AWJ
Ryan Jones (C)
Webb
Hook
Williams

Bench. Then...

Andrews
Lloyd Burns
Turnbull
Martin Roberts
Tovey
Ashley Beck
Robinson
Dixon


Granted there are a few very young tour virgins who are just there for a bit of experience. And I am missing a few key players as previously stated but I have a reason...

No 1/2p. Preistland has to learn to kick regularly at goal otherwise we'll always have a problem area here.

Gill and Owens have done well when given the chance, and we need top quality replacements for Jenkins and Rees beyond Bennet and Paul James!

WE NEED A TIGHTHEAD!!!

I've been itching to see if Charteris and Evans will work, we need bulk up fron with my pack selected.

Again Shinglar and Tipuric have shown promise, let's see what they can do against a very good back row.

Delve is playing well down under. For me he could be a late bolter for the lions based on where he playes and his form.

Phillips is a useless lump but a weapon none the less, he offers nothing other than what we all know, keep him away and give Preistland some quick quality ball.

Prei9stland has to keep playing at present, but Biggar is playing well and I think Tovey will be the boy to push both next year.

Centres pick themselves.

Byrne has done little wrong in France and is playing a totally different style, being the boom left boot at the back. It is very effective and I want to see that employed for Wales.

Wings, well you know.

I understand people want a win, and think Wales need to push on by beating Aus but I think it's too good an opportunity to allow fringe players gametime, which unless we get injuries they won't in the autumn or next 6N. It is lions year, aand everyones playing for a place.

There are a ew players I'm not 100% about and can be convinced to change evry one with good or consistent argument, I have no bias so as I am convinced to I will change the squad.

GO

Dropping Lydiate all together are you

No resting!

He is top class, but is he needed for a development tour?

He like a lot of others have come straight off the back of a WC, then HC and 6N. Give the poor bugger a chance to rest.

Bluesman I se your reasononing & I've seen similar arguments for the Eng/SA tour.

I personally think it's a horrible mistake. Wales is finally building up some serious momentum with a very strong team.

You have a chance to push on against SH opposition - sending a weakened side & getting clobbered could set you right back.

I'm really hoping neither England nor Wales takes that option

I see where you're coming from bluesman, but for me, I hope Gatland picks the strongest squad possible, mainly because we have a chance to kick on and win down under, something that doesnt happen very often. It's for that reason that makes me think any player who's had injury breaks during the season will go. Gethin, Rees, Charteris all fit into this category, and Warburton will go mainly because he's out injured for the next couple of weeks, giving him time to rest, and time to come back fit.

I don't see this as a development tour and I doubt Gatland does either. Wales will be aiming for a SH scalp and to boost their IRB ranking.

I don't see this as a development tour at all. We need to go there and win.

Lovely thread and an interesting exploration into the squad but we need to pit our best against theirs and get a result. I fit they should go.

I'm thinking

Geth
Rees
Adam
AWJ
Charteris
Lyds
Warbs
Toby
Phillips
Priestland
Cuthbert
Beck
Davies
North
Halfpenny

Bench

James
Owens/Bennett
Evans
Ryan
Lloyd
Hook
Liam williams

I really hope that Wales go out there with their strongest team and try and win it! A "developmental team" would mean little or nothing. You get better by playing good opposition and seeing where your strenghths and weaknesses lie. It would be a cop-out if Wales or England don't field their best sides.

We should take our strongest possible team and try and get a series win. If we dont win, then we know where we stand so far as the level of this team is concerned (and the possible gulf between the SH and NH). If we do win then we have serious momentum going in to the AI's and very importantly this year we pick up a lot of IRB points for beating a team with a higher ranking than us away from home.

OK

The theme of this thread tends to be around me being wrong. And maybe I am, Wales need momentum, need ranking points, and need a win on Aus soil. But let me ask all of you one little question...

If we go there with our strongest team, go all out and lose 3 on the bounce what then?

We then can't use youth as an excuse, the Wales team all of a sudden are just average who beat weak 6N opposition, and each player takes a serious knock back. With our recent club form being very poor, can we risk our top players being set back like this. And will it mean the end of lions dreams for a lot of those players.

I just think at this time, and with this young team they need to be nurtured slightly smarter, a little like a boxer. Put the right players in the right games until they are fully ready, then give them a title shot!

thebluesmancometh wrote:OK

The theme of this thread tends to be around me being wrong. And maybe I am, Wales need momentum, need ranking points, and need a win on Aus soil. But let me ask all of you one little question...

If we go there with our strongest team, go all out and lose 3 on the bounce what then?

We then can't use youth as an excuse, the Wales team all of a sudden are just average who beat weak 6N opposition, and each player takes a serious knock back. With our recent club form being very poor, can we risk our top players being set back like this. And will it mean the end of lions dreams for a lot of those players.

I just think at this time, and with this young team they need to be nurtured slightly smarter, a little like a boxer. Put the right players in the right games until they are fully ready, then give them a title shot!

There are no excuses. Wales don't have any and picking a third string team is a wasted opportunity.

If Wales lose they have to figure out why and become better for it.

My team is hardly 3rd team. It is a team of fringe players and potential talent, and I think these players will gain more than first teamers could.

Aus have beaten us recently, our first team on SH soil. For me the Wales team hasn't progressed to a point where they fear us. I am merely suggesting that we rest some key players who we cannot afford to be injured or fatigued, and focus on attacking Aus in the Autumn when at home with a full rested and firing squad!

thebluesmancometh wrote:My team is hardly 3rd team. It is a team of fringe players and potential talent, and I think these players will gain more than first teamers could.

Aus have beaten us recently, our first team on SH soil. For me the Wales team hasn't progressed to a point where they fear us. I am merely suggesting that we rest some key players who we cannot afford to be injured or fatigued, and focus on attacking Aus in the Autumn when at home with a full rested and firing squad!

Its the end of the rugby season - they have all Summer to rest.

admit it blues, you are very wrong, inept and pointless.

All summer? When is this?

They finish a few weeks from now, join with Wales then travel straight down under. On their return they get little rest before pre season starts 8-12 weeks before the season starts.

My point is after a WC, summer training camps in Poland and 2 6N campaigns followed by a gruelling lions tour then streight back into pre season before...

You get my point!

gowershowerpower wrote:admit it blues, you are very wrong, inept and pointless.

probably a little bit strong....


I can see the positives of taking a more fringe squad down to Oz, but I'm another who'd like us to go down there and go guns blazing. Chances are we'll be without a few first-teamers anyway (Roberts for definite, Warbs maybe too at this rate and AW Jones/Charteris only ever seem a few games away from an injury).

If we go down 2-0, then id like us to send a more fringe team out for the 3rd test, but the total aim should be to win the series i think!

A nice article though Bluesman and theres definitely a nice chunk of players who could do with an enforced rest as injuries seem to be taking their toll after what is a long 2 seasons of rugby. Theres also a lot of fringe players who could do with a real opportunity to press their claim to push on and start/make the 22.

could we please stop with all this rest bollox. injuries are part of the game.

they are professional rugby players ffs.

if i needed a rest in my job, i wouldn't have a job.

if they can't handle it, go play wendyball.

survival of the fittest and all that.

gowerpowershower, this is true, but you dont have to actively throw your body into seriously damaging rugby matches once every week/2 weeks and then do hard physical training all week.

Regardless of how fit and physical tip-top you are, the body can only ever stand so much.

actually comfort, i do....on top of my day job.

'...the body can only ever stand so much..' correct, hence survival of the fittest!! hardly a long term career path is rugby is it!

Survival of the fittest.

I like that phrase, it masks a lot of ignorance doesn't it Gower!

Rest and recovery are a huge part of playing proffessional sport! There are a number of different ways to rest and different ways to recover. Football has probably the most strict ways to ensure rest is attained and recovery is accelerated.

Rest isn't recovery!

Proffessional sports isn't saturday afternoon jollies that most of us partake in!

There are physiological and psychological factors attained within professional sports that people who havn't endured have little idea about!

You humour me gower with total lack of knowledge of just about anything, and to be honest I'm not sure your paper round is all that taxing to begin with

Can't believe we win the grandslam on the back of a very good world cup and its being talked about that we take a development side. Not now, if were to take a development side it would only be 1) After a world cup where we have had a few retirements and 2) If it was in Argentina. Wales need to go there all guns blazing and lay down a marker and prove they can not only beat SH sides, but beat them in their own back yard and win a Test series.

All the players have had time off this season, from the WC and now the Six nations. They need to be ready to go, which they will be, ready to take on the Aussies. All of them will want to go, who wouldn't. We can always play an experimental side if we are 2-0 down going into the 3rd Test.

No way would I leave those players at home. Injuries permitting the 6 Nations squad should go, the squad picked all best available players.

Besides this, we have to take care of the Barbarians first. We lost to them last time: https://www.606v2.com/t27240-wales-team-for-baa-baa-s

gowershowerpower wrote:could we please stop with all this rest bollox. injuries are part of the game.

they are professional rugby players ffs.

if i needed a rest in my job, i wouldn't have a job.

if they can't handle it, go play wendyball.

survival of the fittest and all that.

I think we need to restructure the season so everyone plays less rugby. At the moment players are being burned out. The SH season gives them an advantage because they get a larger pre season to recover, which allows them to focus on blocks of rugby, without it interfering with the ongoing season (e.g. 6 nations interrupting pro12)

Look at the NFL as an example, their season only lasts 6 months. The rest of the year is spent conditioning their bodies and sorting out injuries so they are in the best shape for the next season, which altogether leads to a better product.

thebluesmancometh wrote:At this stage of Wales development I would take a low risk development team down to Aus. For me going down all guns blazing with our best players and showing our lions hand is just too risky. Especially if we don't manage a series win.

I won't give a flying fox about the Lions until the end of the domestic 2012/2013 season. Until that point, we - Wales - should be trying to win every game we can and to do this against the Wallabies in June, we need to send the strongest possible squad.

fully agreed with the structure of the season up in the NH being massively pants.

The SH model with competitions in blocks is a lot better.

Ive spoke before about wales looking at the irish model for central contracts (and added extras like tax benefits/limited club gametime) as a basis to be modified for something that could work in Wales with the regions. I'm hoping thats something that'll be happening going forward after this review is finished and we can do something about the state of the game in wales itself.

I believe the AI's are for development not a full blooded test series against Aust. If Wales get smashed then Gatland will know the Lions will need reinforcements if he was thinking about a Welsh dominated team.

Putting out a weakened team serves little purpose and will not bring in the crowds in Aust also there will be less travelling supporters, it will be like watching the Ospreys when their Wales players are away.

Surely grass roots rugby, school rugby, district rugby, age group rugby, club rugby, regional rugby and european rugby is surely, surely, surely enough development for players to step up to international level. The pinnacle of their career. go out with the strongest team and try to win everything. no rest or recovery for the wicked!

Some of the players may not want to go to Australia. Popham did something similar when relocating to France during a Wales summer tour.

Gethin Jenkins and Luke Charteris may have their hands full so may skip the tour.

That said I would imagine there is to much riding on this test for Gats to be experimental. That said the extra test against the Brumbies we may see some new faces.

Personally he defnitely needs his starting 15 - no question in my mind.

But there are areas they need to look at. Tighthead, Wing, Centre, No 8, Scrum Half & Fly Half.

Jaime Roberts is out of the tour so that will give Beck a chance to get a cap at centre.

I hope Gatland does look at genuine tightheads though instead of moving James there. For me given how the Dragons scrum has gone I would go with Buck as understudy for Adam. He propbably will head down with 5 Props at any rate.

Wing is a bit of a concern as well. North and Cuthbert are nailed on at the moment for the 1st test but we need to have a look at 2 backups. Stoddart may make it back in time but Harry Robinson may go as well if he impressed enough during the 6 Nations camps. Personally though I would like them to take Eli Walker.

At scrum half we have plenty of options but Webb and Williams should keep Phillips busy for a while.

Fly Half he still favours Hook and Jones. He probably will take one of them but I dont see either being genuine contenders for Priestland. In fairness if they take 3, Biggar should be taken. No real other contenders and its a bit early for Morgan.

Falatau is outstanding no question but a genuine backup we dont have. I see Ryan as more of a Blindside these days as he has lost that pace he had when he was younger. J. Thomas has done ok for the Ospreys at 8 but actually I would take a total shot in the dark and take Murphy from the Scarlets. He really has impressed me this season. Quick and always seems to break the gain line.

At best though I would imagine only about 5 or 6 new faces in 33-35 man touring party. Brumbies match is probably their best chance to get some international exposure unless Wales either win or lose both opening tests.

Welshmushroom wrote:

Wing is a bit of a concern as well. North and Cuthbert are nailed on at the moment for the 1st test but we need to have a look at 2 backups. Stoddart may make it back in time but Harry Robinson may go as well if he impressed enough during the 6 Nations camps. Personally though I would like them to take Eli Walker.

Agreed 606. F no to that mushroom, f no to that

Erm hes already scored a couple of cracking tries and in fairness to the lad the Ospreys backline are not exactly giving him much ball either. Robinson has been the same at the Blues as well. Both will be ones for the future.

Other than those you only have Harries (Dragons), Fenby (Scarlets), Mustoe & James (Blues), Fussell & Luke Morgan (Ospreys). Only 2 have been capped at international level.

Shame abou Mustoe as he's always been overlooked despite his best efforts and always plays well. Cant see him getting selected or Fussell for that matter.

Eli Walker and Luke Morgan are terrible players. What happened to Kris Phillips?

Welshmushroom wrote:Erm hes already scored a couple of cracking tries and in fairness to the lad the Ospreys backline are not exactly giving him much ball either. Robinson has been the same at the Blues as well. Both will be ones for the future.

Other than those you only have Harries (Dragons), Fenby (Scarlets), Mustoe & James (Blues), Fussell & Luke Morgan (Ospreys). Only 2 have been capped at international level.

Shame abou Mustoe as he's always been overlooked despite his best efforts and always plays well. Cant see him getting selected or Fussell for that matter.

Well he should go looking for it, that's what good wingers do. He may have scored a few good tries but that's what he's supposed to do as a winger. I haven't seen anything from him to suggest that he's potentially an international winger, Robinson on the other hand This is how i see Walker - hasn't got great pace, doesn't have a good work rate, terrible defence, terrible under the high ball, lacks physicality/contact skills, no agression, no ball skills or footballing skills to speak of, so other than having a guy who runs in a few tries i don't see what he adds to any team tbh. Also Dirksen seems to be doing fine...

I do agree that we don't have much depth. But picking Walker... i hope not, i'd rather see Jonathan Davies or Scott Williams on the wing

gowales wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:Erm hes already scored a couple of cracking tries and in fairness to the lad the Ospreys backline are not exactly giving him much ball either. Robinson has been the same at the Blues as well. Both will be ones for the future.

Other than those you only have Harries (Dragons), Fenby (Scarlets), Mustoe & James (Blues), Fussell & Luke Morgan (Ospreys). Only 2 have been capped at international level.

Shame abou Mustoe as he's always been overlooked despite his best efforts and always plays well. Cant see him getting selected or Fussell for that matter.

Well he should go looking for it, that's what good wingers do. He may have scored a few good tries but that's what he's supposed to do as a winger. This is how i see Walker - hes not that quick, doesn't have a good work rate, terrible defence, terrible under the high ball, lacks physicality/ bad contact skills, no ball skills or footballing skills to speak of, so other than being reasonably quick i don't see what he adds to any team tbh. Also Dirksen seems to be doing fine...

I do agree that we don't have much depth. But picking Walker... i hope not

You can hardly say he's not that quick. My understanding is that he runs 100m in under 12 secs. Thats quick in anyones book.

I see your point though with the rest of it.

Problem is you want to take players who are currently playing well. Mustoe hardly gets a look in for the Blues at the moment and neither does Robinson. Harries only just got back from injury and has not rediscovered his form. Luke Morgan hasnt played much pro rugby either as Eli is keeping him out. Dirksen isnt Welsh qualified yet, Fussell is playing at Full Back.

So that leaves Tom James, Walker or Fenby. Walker clearly is the younger option but maybe you are right - Fenby it is then.

I mean he's not quick enough to cover up the inadequacies in the rest of his game

I have to say, your starting XV looks a lot like a scratch team to me. Maybe we don't see this tour the same way but I think everything should be put into it, Gatland ought to go all out to try and get that elusive win down south. It's time to take that next step if possible. Warbs is the skipper and if fit is therefore ever present for these important tests, cannot see why anyone ambitious would leave him behind. Likewise for Jones, Jenkins and Phillips, their absence would decrease our chances considerably.

15. Halfpenny
14. Cuthbert
13. J Davies
12. S Williams
11. North
10. Priestland
9. Phillips
8. Faletau
7. Warburton
6. Lydiate
5. AW Jones
4. Charteris
3. A Jones
2. Rees
1. Jenkins

16. Owens
17. James
18. Evans
19. R Jones
20. Webb
21. Hook
22. Beck

Andy Fenby, Liam Williams, Dan Biggar, Ashley Beck, Rhodri Jones, Steffan Jones, Gareth Davies, Adam Hughes, Andrew Bishop, Ashley Smith and Josh Nalvidi have all been playing very well.

They should all be in consideration for the greater squad.

I realy do not see any point of takeing an understrenght team on tour in the summer.

I will probably get slated for this, not being Welsh i mean, but in all honesty can Wales afford to take an under strenght team on tour this year?
Wales had the best Rugby World Cup in the History of Welsh rugby.

They got the third spot in the (RWC) ahead of France, they then went on to beat all side in the 6ns and get themselves a Grand Slam.

So Wales "NEED" to take a full strenght team on tour this year, they need to see if this team the team that won the Grand Slam, can step up to beet the SH team/s. If they do win 1 game that could be seen as an improvement. If they dont win any games, Then it is back to the DRAWING BOARD.

maestegmafia wrote:Andy Fenby, Liam Williams, Dan Biggar, Ashley Beck, Rhodri Jones, Steffan Jones, Gareth Davies, Adam Hughes, Andrew Bishop, Ashley Smith and Josh Nalvidi have all been playing very well.

They should all be in consideration for the greater squad.

What?! Bishop?

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Andy Fenby, Liam Williams, Dan Biggar, Ashley Beck, Rhodri Jones, Steffan Jones, Gareth Davies, Adam Hughes, Andrew Bishop, Ashley Smith and Josh Nalvidi have all been playing very well.

They should all be in consideration for the greater squad.

What?! Bishop?

Bishop is playing really well.

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Andy Fenby, Liam Williams, Dan Biggar, Ashley Beck, Rhodri Jones, Steffan Jones, Gareth Davies, Adam Hughes, Andrew Bishop, Ashley Smith and Josh Nalvidi have all been playing very well.

They should all be in consideration for the greater squad.

What?! Bishop?

Bishop is playing really well.

Offering nothing in attack and with a try scoring record worse than most of the O's front row - and the ability to fail to make the most out of a backline containing Bowe, Williams and Byrne for years.

How Bishop ever got capped I don't know - because there are no 13s in Wales I suppose (though a badly injured Shanks got brought in to replace Bishop as soon as possible)

He set up Beck for his second try last weekend.

He is a consistent player, strong in defence, clever in attack, always crosses the gain line rarely loses ball. He isn't flashy and I am not saying i want him in the Wales team but he is playing really well at the moment.

Im pretty sure Gatland is going all out to win the tests but I expect to see a development side put out against the babas and the brumbies. Gatlands likely to take a slightly larger squad because of those two games so,

Im expecting the squad/first team to look like this

1. Gethin/James/Gill
2. Smiler/Owens/Hibbard
3. Adam/Mitchell
4. Charteris/AWJ
5. Ian Evans/Bradley
6. Lydiate/Shingler
7. Warburton (c)/Tipuric
8. Faletau/Powell/Ryan
9. Phillips/Lloyd/Webb
10. Priestland/Hook/Tovey
11. North/Robinson
12. JD/Beck
13. Williams/
14. Cuthbert/Walker
15. Halfpenny/Byrne.

Against the Babas and the Brumbies I would expect a team along the lines of this

1. Gill
2. HIbbard
3. Mitchell
4. AWJ
5. Bradley
6. Shingler
7. Tipuric
8. Powell
9. Lloyd
10. Tovey
11. Robinson
12. Beck
13. Williams
14. Cuthbert
15. Byrne

16. James
17. Owens
18. Ryan
17. Faletau
20. Webb
21. Hook
22. Halfpenny

When it comes to our matches against Australia then I expect the best team possible, Against the brumbies and Babas have a relatively strong bench.

Roberts injury does throw the cat among the pigeons a bit but even Gatland a self confessed Henson fan wouldnt contemplate a shock return for the orange one, would he?

TycroesOsprey wrote:

14. Cuthbert/Walker

The madness is catching...

Sanjay on the wing ?

Has this become a 'development' tour? Is that official?
I thought it might be a See-what-I've-really-got tour to really prove Welsh dominance AND as homework for probable Lions?
But now it's a We-don't-really-care-if-we-lose-all-our-games tour?

Anyone know if Dirksen will be Welsh Qualified before the Australia tour? If he is, I could see him travelling with the squad.

Next year I believe

I could see Liam Williams touring ahead of Eli Walker.
Fenby too has been playing well and scoring tries.

and Seretfly, I think thats just something thats been mentioned on here, I have no doubt Gatland will take his strongest squad with the aim to win the series!