Remember When..................

Remember the good old days of about 4 seasons ago when everybody's second team was Saracens.
We were all jolly good fun with our funny little hats, plucky chaps who always made the relegation battle fun, oh and thanks for the points see you next year if you stay up.

Now we've had the cheek to actually beat you and well, thats just not cricket. We are called all sorts of names that have nothing to do with Saracens, i know its rude of us to have so many English qualified players in our side now, often more than the teams we play against. And yes how dare the council kick us out of our home at slaughtergate because we rented it, but wanted to develop it, so we have to move to a new area and share with a wendyball team.

And for the love of any god you follow how very dare we whore ourselves to marketing pondlife to fill that other stadium, yet when those loveable chaps in London Wasps( sorry geography's not my strong point, where in london is High Wycombe?)do it for St Georges day in Twickers and its a bloody good idea, well thought out plan?

Ah i miss the good old days....

A couple of seasons ago Quins got a lot of flack for being cheats because of Bloodgate. Now we are media darlings again. Mostly. This stuff comes in cycles, best thing to do is ignore it and enjoy it when people come crawling back.

Though by all accounts the display on Friday was atrocious

Everyone's second team? Your having a laugh! Even if it was to have some freebie points.

All that money spent on players looking for a quick fix & nothing to show for it.
That would be the equivalent of Fulham fans supporting Chelsea (except Chelsea won trophies)

Congratulations on finally contributing to the England cause. You may be more popular now for that reason but as a team to watch or support as a second favourite team try playing with a bit of flair first.

I would guess Saracens are nobodies second favourite team. Apart from the occasional Tommy Cooper fan.

Quins, Exeter, Saints even Tigers I would pay to watch.

I went to the Sarries v Quins game at Wembley - yes great marketing & good family occasion but was anyone actually impressed with Saracens?

True ChequeredJersey you bring up an interesting point.

Saracens do not have a reputation for cheating or being particularly dirty.

Knackeredknees do you really want to be everyone's 2nd team?

Other supporters might dislike us but they can't deny we are tough to beat.

I think it's great that some people our concerned about Saracen's problems. Unfortunately most aren't very good at giving solutions.

When on earth have Sarries been everyone's second team? People dislike you because your successful, that always happens. Personally i dislike you because you play unbelievably boring rugby

Knackered Knees - these good old days must be at least 15 years ago before Sarries started spending a lot of cash

TBH Sarries lost a lot of "favour" with people I know with the way they handled sacking all the players and support staff a few years back.

Bathite wrote:When on earth have Sarries been everyone's second team? People dislike you because your successful, that always happens. Personally i dislike you because you play unbelievably boring rugby

I do not care about how Sarries play - mainly because I do not see rugby as being "sports entertainment". I do however think it is crazy that with such talented players they choose to be so negative - but if they win the AP again they will just point at the tropy cabinet while going "nah-nah-na-na-nah"

I appreciate most forms of rugby, but there is so little to enjoy about negative rugby. At least last year we have Britz rampaging from full back, which was great to watch. Some would argue Exeter aren't the most entertaining team to watch, but I find myself enjoying watching them play and seeing them as my 2nd team.

Bathite, this season yes we've played conservatively but is that a reason to dislike a team? Do you dislike the English team at the moment?

Bigtrev, so if we threw the ball around a bit and in doing so maybe lost a few more games in the name of entertainment that would be fine?

I just find it funny that last year it was we need Farrell,barritt,strettle in the England side now!! This year get rid of them they can't attack like the all blacks we need x player who attacks all the time but would make o gara look like a tackle machine, but it's ok as we'll be attacking all the time and won't need to tackle

LondonTiger wrote:I do not care about how Sarries play - mainly because I do not see rugby as being "sports entertainment". I do however think it is crazy that with such talented players they choose to be so negative - but if they win the AP again they will just point at the tropy cabinet while going "nah-nah-na-na-nah"

Exactly when I play on a Saturday I play to win, don't give a monkeys if it's pretty to look at all I want when I walk off is to know I've won

Knackeredknees wrote:Bathite, this season yes we've played conservatively but is that a reason to dislike a team? Do you dislike the English team at the moment?

Bigtrev, so if we threw the ball around a bit and in doing so maybe lost a few more games in the name of entertainment that would be fine?

I just find it funny that last year it was we need Farrell,barritt,strettle in the England side now!! This year get rid of them they can't attack like the all blacks we need x player who attacks all the time but would make o gara look like a tackle machine, but it's ok as we'll be attacking all the time and won't need to tackle

Umm, yep, that's a perfectly good reason to dislike a team! Doesn't mean I don't respect them, I just can't warm to them and yep of course the same goes for England, but it isn't the same because as a proud Englishman, I'll always support my country and some would argue that I don't have a choice!

Knackeredknees wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I do not care about how Sarries play - mainly because I do not see rugby as being "sports entertainment". I do however think it is crazy that with such talented players they choose to be so negative - but if they win the AP again they will just point at the tropy cabinet while going "nah-nah-na-na-nah"

Exactly when I play on a Saturday I play to win, don't give a monkeys if it's pretty to look at all I want when I walk off is to know I've won

Yep and I totally agree, but if it isn't my team we are talking about, I want to see some interesting rugby. Every neutral wants to see a good game of sport

Sport should be played to win. The onus is on the regulators, not teams, to ensure that winning is representative of entertainment for the audience. When I play, I play to win. The trouble for Sarries is that their boring approach has led them to lose matches that a more positive approach probably would have won

here here

Knackered, have you been on the pop this St. George's Day?

Sarries rock





Err, maybe I've been on the pop.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Sport should be played to win. The onus is on the regulators, not teams, to ensure that winning is representative of entertainment for the audience. When I play, I play to win. The trouble for Sarries is that their boring approach has led them to lose matches that a more positive approach probably would have won

This is the attitude that has led the interminable changing of the laws, seeking "entertainment" - yet the "product" is less "entertaining" now then ever. The current SXV season has apparently produced less tries than ever, prompting calls for more changes to the laws.

Yet the first thying that will happen is coaches will review the law changes to see how the can use (abuse?) them to their advantage. As most teams do not win most weeks the mainthing they will look for is how to stop the opposition playing. The main reason the 3 sides at the top of the table are thers is because they are either very good at slowing down opposition ball (Quins), quite good at slowing down opposition ball and secure a lot of turnover (Tigers) or have an awesome aggressive defence (Sarries - note this is the same as Wasps at their best and how SA won the 07 WC).

Different styles are what makes Rugby fascinating. Too many basketball style matches are just as dull as games such as this one - though as someone who rates Test Cricket light years ahead of the borefest that is T20 I guess I will always prefer hard fought battles over "me-to-you" try extravaganzas where tackling seems to be forbidden.

SAracens supporters seem to be constantly trying to justify their following to anyone who will listen.

Its a shame, they just want to be loved.

Bless.

Equo Troiano wrote:Saracens supporters seem to be constantly trying to justify their following to anyone who will listen.

Its a shame, they just want to be loved.

Bless.

No just the fickle nature of some "fans" and the antagonist approach by some.

Oh and fixed your typo, you need to get your keyboard fixed as the caps lock seems to get stuck a lot when you post

Oh, its not stuck. Believe me.

Equo Troiano you're so sanctimonious and smug.

Why do you rarely talk about rugby?

beshocked wrote:

Why do you rarely talk about rugby?

Why do SAracens rarely play it?

We played rugby when we smashed you at WR scoring 6 tries and 50 points.

We played rugby in both playoff finals. Ok we lost one but we played some excellent rugby that day.

In the 2nd we held off a very one dimensional Leicester attack for 90 minutes + without conceding a try. We scored the only try of the game.

Ever watched the kittens in the 80's or 90's? They were the inventors of forward dominated penalty kicking rugby and would be happy to scrum all day even if it was dry and sunny

beshocked wrote:We played rugby when we smashed you at WR scoring 6 tries and 50 points.

We played rugby in both playoff finals. Ok we lost one but we played some excellent rugby that day.

In the 2nd we held off a very one dimensional Leicester attack for 90 minutes + without conceding a try. We scored the only try of the game.

Classy.

Gents, it is only early morning, no need to wind one another up this early, what will you be doing for the rest of the day?


Beshocked, I deleted your comment regarding Equo, not called for.

Knackeredknees wrote:Ever watched the kittens in the 80's or 90's? They were the inventors of forward dominated penalty kicking rugby and would be happy to scrum all day even if it was dry and sunny

Misconception - Tigers for much of the 80s were a backs led team - certainly the team that won 3 cups at the start of that decade had some grizzled forwards, but the style was set by cusworth, Dodge, Woodward and Hare and it was one of running the ball.

Even the Deano dominated teams had flying wingers like rory, Barry Evans and Steve Hackney who scored tries galore.

Round about the time I attended Bath University - Rowell and hudson were building a team that truly was based on forward domination - only later unleashing the backs.

Maybe biltong if Equo stopped with the childish SAracens every time and quit the digs Beshocked would not have made the comment?

LondonTiger wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Ever watched the kittens in the 80's or 90's? They were the inventors of forward dominated penalty kicking rugby and would be happy to scrum all day even if it was dry and sunny

Misconception - Tigers for much of the 80s were a backs led team - certainly the team that won 3 cups at the start of that decade had some grizzled forwards, but the style was set by cusworth, Dodge, Woodward and Hare and it was one of running the ball.

Even the Deano dominated teams had flying wingers like rory, Barry Evans and Steve Hackney who scored tries galore.

Round about the time I attended Bath University - Rowell and hudson were building a team that truly was based on forward domination - only later unleashing the backs.

Ah but the scrum half was soundly beaten for passing the ball to a back when it happened

LondonTiger wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Ever watched the kittens in the 80's or 90's? They were the inventors of forward dominated penalty kicking rugby and would be happy to scrum all day even if it was dry and sunny

Misconception - Tigers for much of the 80s were a backs led team - certainly the team that won 3 cups at the start of that decade had some grizzled forwards, but the style was set by cusworth, Dodge, Woodward and Hare and it was one of running the ball.

Even the Deano dominated teams had flying wingers like rory, Barry Evans and Steve Hackney who scored tries galore.

Round about the time I attended Bath University - Rowell and hudson were building a team that truly was based on forward domination - only later unleashing the backs.

+1

Knackeredknees wrote:Maybe biltong if Equo stopped with the childish SAracens every time and quit the digs Beshocked would not have made the comment?

Knackeredknees, it still doesn't warrant an insult. This is exactly how things escalate, it needs two parties to make it escalate.

If there is something equo has said that you need to report then please do so, unfortunately we can't read every post.

Biltongbek I love your consistency. All I see is you supporting one of the most provocative posters on these boards.

Shame on you. Absolute disgrace for a mod to be like this.

I know for sure your fellow mod Ozzy would back me up.

Beshocked, is there anything you can report?

I know quo well, and know what he can do, I am not used to you being offensive though.

As I said to knackeredknees, if there is something to be reported then please do so.

As for consistency, I remove all reported insults.

Equo Troiano is a WUM, one of the best in the business.

By the way WUM means wind up merchant. As you can see Equo is a class apart. Most of his posts are not related to rugby. Mostly just digs at Saracens and taking the mickey out of the South African connection.

As you are a South African I thought you might understand.

Biltong if I can i would not report anything as I'm old enough and enjoy a bit of good old fashion banter enough to rise above childish keyboard warriors, however constant little digs like midge bits while not enough to hurt get annoying after a while until you have to have a slap at the pesky little git.

Beshocked maybe if we just ignore it it will go away, plenty of knowledgeable and evenhanded tigers supporters out there

It's true Knackeredknees I think all the Tigers fans on here bar Equo are very knowledgeable and mostly friendly.

Is SAracens or Saffacens any more insulting than Tiggers or Kittens? (or Reading Irish/London pacific etc)

All are intended as insults.


Perhaps if people spent more time responding to the considered responses to their posts and less to the insults we would all get along just fine (OK bit rich as I do tend to allow myself to get wound up too easily). There have been considered responses to this thread - but have all been ignored.

LondonTiger

Yes it's worse because it can be considered xenophobic/racist.

Saracens are criticised for their South African contingent yet players like Brits and Joubert have been positive to the AP.

Saracens actually have similar numbers of foreigns to the likes of London Irish and Exeter but they never get a kicking. It's because we have more of one nationality.

South Africa are a very good rugby country so getting players from there is not a bad thing.

I focus more on the individuals than nationality. I want good players first and foremost.

Saracens do have a significant South African flavour but so what? As long as we have a healthy number of English players and an English chairman like Nigel Wray what's the problem?

Guys, in all honesty I don't see the problem with SAffacens or SArracens, it is one of the teams that I have interest in in the Aviva due to the South African contingent.

The mere fact that Equo is harping on it, is in my personal opinion not a wind up or enticing anyone to respond.

It is merely his Caps Lock getting stuck whenever he types his second letter of a word starting with SA, it is also a hidden compliment and also one of hidden envy. Perhaps you need to read between the lines.

I also support Leinster and Ulster, the former since 2010 and recently Ulster due to their South African contingent.

Just about every team in europe has a South African in it, so in my view not even an issue anymore.

biltongbek wrote:Guys, in all honesty I don't see the problem with SAffacens or SArracens, it is one of the teams that I have interest in in the Aviva due to the South African contingent.

The mere fact that Equo is harping on it, is in my personal opinion not a wind up or enticing anyone to respond.

It is merely his Caps Lock getting stuck whenever he types his second letter of a word starting with SA, it is also a hidden compliment and also one of hidden envy. Perhaps you need to read between the lines.

I also support Leinster and Ulster, the former since 2010 and recently Ulster due to their South African contingent.

Just about every team in europe has a South African in it, so in my view not even an issue anymore.

You're absolutely right old chap. God Bless SAracens, and all who sail in her...

Ah but LT where would the keyboard warrior be if it wasn't for the safety of the www? Safe in the knowledge that he can insult anyone and cannot be touched.

Would he go to a match and say these things to real people?

Anyway I hope you lose to bath(in a nice way) and don't pick up any bonus points and we beat Exeter and well see you at VR. If not see you at WR for the semifinal, and may the best fez wearing team win

biltongbek wrote:Guys, in all honesty I don't see the problem with SAffacens or SArracens, it is one of the teams that I have interest in in the Aviva due to the South African contingent.

The mere fact that Equo is harping on it, is in my personal opinion not a wind up or enticing anyone to respond.

It is merely his Caps Lock getting stuck whenever he types his second letter of a word starting with SA, it is also a hidden compliment and also one of hidden envy. Perhaps you need to read between the lines.

I also support Leinster and Ulster, the former since 2010 and recently Ulster due to their South African contingent.

Just about every team in europe has a South African in it, so in my view not even an issue anymore.

So you wouldn't mind if everytime South Africa is mentioned its got the word "thugs＂attached to it?

Knackeredknees personally I would like Leicester in the final.

That would means Quins have to slip up vs Sale which is possible.

Though if Quins do beat Sale i'll be one of the first to congratulate them on topping the table.

Home or Away in the semi - I don't really care. We just need to find some form - start playing with a bit more ambition and purpose.

Saracens actually have similar numbers of foreigns to the likes of London Irish and Exeter but they never get a kicking. It's because we have more of one nationality.?

The fact we have this season on quite a few occasions fielded an entirely English backline as well as 4or5 in the pack shows the we are not SA dominated, our big name stars maybe but not the side

Knackeredknees wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Guys, in all honesty I don't see the problem with SAffacens or SArracens, it is one of the teams that I have interest in in the Aviva due to the South African contingent.

The mere fact that Equo is harping on it, is in my personal opinion not a wind up or enticing anyone to respond.

It is merely his Caps Lock getting stuck whenever he types his second letter of a word starting with SA, it is also a hidden compliment and also one of hidden envy. Perhaps you need to read between the lines.

I also support Leinster and Ulster, the former since 2010 and recently Ulster due to their South African contingent.

Just about every team in europe has a South African in it, so in my view not even an issue anymore.

So you wouldn't mind if everytime South Africa is mentioned its got the word "thugs＂attached to it?

PJ Holybloke and myself had that discussion during the RWC, and according to him his native Country england was just that step ahead of us in the world cup, I am trying to rmember now, he said something like "Schalk Burger is the poor man's courtney Lawes". Yeah I think that was it.

If you want to call them thugs like lmost other do, then that is fine, I get that a lot with SA players, even after they have been behaving for a number of years. I will argue the point without insulting you yes.

Knackeredknees wrote:If not see you at WR for the semifinal, and may the best fez wearing team win

There was a large group of Fez wearers at the Stoop this weekend. Not sure why.

I would probably like Saracens again if Griffiths ever left. He may just have been the public face of the takeover, but the way they manipulated employment law to effectively sack people still annoys the carp out of me. Of course it is also personal - as people I had known for a long time lost their jobs without any compensation.

Knackeredknees to be fair I don't think we have ever been anyone's 2nd team. I think we've been popular as a 4/5 pointer but in the past we have been not really been on the radar despite our high profile players.

We had been consistently inconsistent.

Is it better to be talked about than shown complete indifference?

I still say, if you don't like the make-up of a team or the way they play, don't support them and there is no need to comment on them unless you are playing them. If you think they play dull rugby then beat them and demonstrate that it is the wrong move. Saracens are a private company. As long as they are supported and successful they have no financial or frankly moral obligation to play rugby that you find interesting, they are fulfilling the obligations with regards to how many English or South African players they use and the way they win, though not always thrilling and not always sensible, is legal and frankly within the spirit of the game whatever you say.

Also, as LT said, different styles of rugby playing against each other are more interesting that scoring millions of tries. Hence when Saracens played Quins and played Tigers the matches were tense and exciting and both teams in each match played their part in that. The problem with the Sarries-Falcons game was that, as noted in other threads, the execution was poor and that both teams were trying to play the same way. Sarries are a little like Nadal - they can be entertaining but need an attacking opponent to really force their aggressive game (for Sarries they have recently started that too late in the games mentioned above). If you know that before you start then why watch Sarries Falcons as a neutral?

London Tiger Edward Griffiths is a very interesting character.

IMO he has done some very positive things but he also is prone to howlers. I would certainly say he is willing to push the boundaries in all manners.

He's very energetic,innovative but also prone to upsetting people and stepping on toes.

All in all I think Edward Griffiths has been a positive force but I know there is the potential for things to go wrong with him in charge.

biltongbek wrote:
If you want to call them thugs like lmost other do, then that is fine, I get that a lot with SA players, even after they have been behaving for a number of years. I will argue the point without insulting you yes.

I'd like to add that the SA contingent that we've had at Ulster recently: Muller, Pienaar, Terblanche, Wannenburg are as fine of examples of exemplary sportsmen and rugby players that I've ever come across.

Ultra professional and super committed on the pitch and articulate, intelligent, gentlemen off it (from what I know). Pure class, all of them, and its an honour to have them in our club shirt -the finest ambassadors for Ulster rugby I've come across in my life time .

Totally changed my perception of SA rugby players and I couldn't speak highly enough about them.