The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub, Cross Keys

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the Virtual Rugby Pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat. The pub has ventured to Cross Keys, as their team is in the British and Irish Cup Final.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the pictures of Richie McCaw, George Smith, Robert Nash,Billy Holland, John Muller, Greg Laidlaw, Aurelien Rougerie, Leo Cullen, Rhys Thomas and Iestyn Thomas.



Old Pub: https://www.606v2.com/t28083p1000-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub-edinburgh#1168404

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:Well done Rev, and morning all.

I'm on the way down to Ex for a couple of days. The Somerset Levels are just one massive lake, with a railway line running through it.


Pretty wierd experience.

Takes you back to the 6-7th centuries, eh?! Hoping that Tig will get a chance to work on a dig that is investigating an old path they've discovered thru the levels - suspect she'll be needing her diving gear

Right, we've under 50 posts to go in this pub, get your venue and picture nominations in. (I think we'll save Twickers for closer to HEC final time).

One pic will be the late Sir Fred Allen, who passed away aged 92 on the weekend. "The Needle" was first five-eighth and captain of the NZ Army "Kiwis" in Europe in 1946, ABs captain to SA in 1949, stellar coach of Auckland and Marlborough and undefeated as All Blacks' coach in the 60s.

Mossy Patterson pls

Wayne Barnes and Roman Poite.

Not this season they haven't, As. Your lot started the rot in the Amlin!

Glas a du wrote:Wayne Barnes and Roman Poite.

I call veto

So Asbo wants a picture of Victor Vito.

Should we move the pub to Tanzania in honour of MBTGOG?

As for pictures, can we go with Wagga. I still love him...

Good Luck in your match today Rev!

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Wayne Barnes and Roman Poite.

I call veto

On the dartboard perhaps . With Bryce Lawrence as well for Biltong

Good call, Mick. the Dar es Salaam Dew Drop.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Good call, Mick. the Dar es Salaam Dew Drop.

I like it.

We'll put a pic up of Aberdeen Shikoyi too

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Mossy Patterson pls

+1 A heck of a player.

Can I add his mate Simon Danielli. This season aside he has been a fantastic servant to Ulster Rugby.

From our company newsletter, Dettol have launched a Facebook app called ‘Clean up your Profile’. The app accesses your account and helps you clean up your unwanted apps, pages you have liked but never visit and the 80% of friends you never actually interact with. See the campaign video here: http://bit.ly/KDYkG9 - a clever piece of marketing.

A clever piece of marketing and useful, too.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0502/1224315455106.html

Good article by Alan Quinlan. I agree strongly with him.

Players care more about their provinces than their country on a subconscious level.

"I was in the room with the Ireland squad before the Grand Slam campaign when Rob Kearney asked the big question – why did it seem that Munster players were performing better in red shirts than in green shirts?
Rob was a young guy, an up-and-coming player who hadn’t won a Heineken Cup at that stage and hadn’t won anything with Ireland either. He said straight out that he was envious of the way Munster players could find the fire in their bellies for big Heineken Cup games, how the collective will to win was so obvious.
There was a lot of respect for him in asking a question like that because it was an issue that had to be addressed and it probably needed somebody from outside of Munster to bring it up. Nobody ever held it against him. It was acknowledging that in Munster we had something the Ireland team needed to harness.
The wheel has come full circle now and you can’t watch Leinster these days without wondering the same thing. Leinster’s level of performance is so high and so clinical that you would think the national team should be reaping the benefit. But it’s the same scenario as when Munster were at our best – guys seem to perform better in a blue shirt than in a green one.
There are explanations for this. Obviously nobody goes out to try to underperform for their country or to put in less effort or show less passion."

red_stag wrote:
Players care more about their provinces than their country on a subconscious level.

I disagree totally. I don't think there is any lack of effort or passion. The problem lies in the execution, cohesion and a lack of a gameplan. The players are just confused because they don't know what way they are trying to play and the ley combinations aren't working.

Look at Rob Kearney....when do you see him hoofing up and unders for Leinster? He doesn't do this for Leinster because he has the confidence to run the ball, knowing his support runners will be with him.

Sexton at Leinster stands flat and runs onto every ball, but for Ireland he stands well behind the gain line because he doesn't have the same confidence in Murray.

Trimble comes infield all the time for Ulster but is anonmous on the wing at times for Ireland.

This is down to players not knowing their roles and afraid to make mistakes, which all stems from the coaches.

rodders wrote:

red_stag wrote:
Players care more about their provinces than their country on a subconscious level.

I disagree totally. I don't think there is any lack of effort or passion.

It is not a lack of effort/passion. It is IMO that there is an extra gear, an extra fire that they seem to summon in a provincial shirt. A collective energy. Even under EOS in 2007 or the GS run of 2009 I never felt that same energy stemming from the national team.

I have read Ulster fans this week saying that this ERC Final means more to them than any match Ireland has ever played. Do you not think some of the players feel that way.

I actually agree with him and find it totally understandable on at least a subconscious level.

With your province you are playing with guys you see everyday. You may well have played with or against them since you were 11 years old.

It is very natural that you will feel differently when playing with those guys than you do when you are with guys you are only with at Irish camp.
I don't know if you really do anything about it. It is almost viseral.

Just picture how you feel when one of your siblings is in danger. It is different from how you feel about even your closest friend. You don't decide to feel that way it just happens.

Do I think that is the biggest reason for Ireland underperforming? Not even close but I do think it's natural.

MrsP wrote:I actually agree with him and find it totally understandable on at least a subconscious level.

With your province you are playing with guys you see everyday. You may well have played with or against them since you were 11 years old.

It is very natural that you will feel differently when playing with those guys than you do when you are with guys you are only with at Irish camp.
I don't know if you really do anything about it. It is almost viseral.

Just picture how you feel when one of your siblings is in danger. It is different from how you feel about even your closest friend. You don't decide to feel that way it just happens.

Do I think that is the biggest reason for Ireland underperforming? Not even close but I do think it's natural.

Totally agree.

Munster's new coach is annouced lads, Rob Penney.

No I don't stag. 100% no. Not any more than it does to Leinster.

The fact that you suggests that hilights another problem. The fans and media and the political an cultural divisions we have on this Island.

Trimble spoke about it recently, how when he plays for Ireland every mistake gets hilighted whereas at Ulster he feels he has the support of the fans.

You'd never get the English or Welsh media slaughtering their own players the way we do.

No wonder certain players struggle to perform when they know that sections of the media and fans don't appreciate them or want them.

We're obsessed with scapegoats and when things aren't going well the provincial and politcal cracks appear and the knives come out.

Rodders,

Have you seen the interview Rory Best gave on Saturday?

I think the HEC is the thing the players are most passionate about no matter which province they are from. I agree that Ulster players are treated differently by the press and some fans although I suspect Munster fans get a harder time from the Leinster press and vice versa.

I think this is a different issue though.

Who called the 2@s conference in Carnarthen? Never seen so many in Town.

MrsP wrote:Just picture how you feel when one of your siblings is in danger. It is different from how you feel about even your closest friend. You don't decide to feel that way it just happens.

That's a great analogy. Not to say it can't be developed for the national team.

MrsP wrote:Rodders,

Have you seen the interview Rory Best gave on Saturday?

I think the HEC is the thing the players are most passionate about no matter which province they are from. I agree that Ulster players are treated differently by the press and some fans although I suspect Munster fans get a harder time from the Leinster press and vice versa.

I think this is a different issue though.

Yes Mrs P and I've heard numerous interviews and not one player has even suggested that the HEC means more than playing for Ireland. Its up there I'm sure but its different.

I don't think it is a different issue, the suggestion was that players are more passionate about their province and I 100% disagree.

In fact Rory Best is the current captain of Ireland, a player who give 100% everytime he takes the field as do Ferris and Trimble. They are as commited players as you will ever see anywhere.

I think it is an insult to them to even suggest that they try any less or are any less committed or passionate when they pull on an Ireland jersey.

rodders wrote:
I think it is an insult to them to even suggest that they try any less or are any less committed or passionate when they pull on an Ireland jersey.

Rodders, you are looking at it the wrong way around. It is NOT that the fans, media and players are not committed and passionate to Ireland.

It seems to me that there is an inner committment and passion that drives the provinces on time and again to exceed. Few if any teams have this passion IMO and our provinces are lucky to have it. Our national team does not.

rodders wrote:In fact Rory Best is the current captain of Ireland, a player who give 100% everytime he takes the field as do Ferris and Trimble. They are as commited players as you will ever see anywhere.

I think it is an insult to them to even suggest that they try any less or are any less committed or passionate when they pull on an Ireland jersey.

All I know is that I am more passionate about the ERC than the 6 Nations. I know there are loads of other fans who feel the same. Alan Quinlan has said the same. I saw a thread dedicated to this on this forum where fans said the same thing.

Are you really suggesting that some of the players don't feel the same.

Maybe if the Ireland fans and media were as supportive and passionate as the fans you get at Thomond, Donnybrook and Ravenhill then the players might find that extra gear.

Leinster succeed because they are so drilled and clever in defense like a well oiled machine.

There's no way Rory Best, O'Connell and O'Driscoll are any less committed or inspirational for Ireland - on any level.

Look at Tom Courts reaction when he scored in the 6N.....or the reaction of BOD and O'Connell when we beat Australia in the RWC.

Things are not going well for Ireland right now so understandably the provinces are happier camps but to suggest there is more passion for the provinces amongst the players is a slippery slope and a cop out for the failings of the national coaches imo.

red_stag wrote:All I know is that I am more passionate about the ERC than the 6 Nations. I know there are loads of other fans who feel the same. Alan Quinlan has said the same. I saw a thread dedicated to this on this forum where fans said the same thing.

Are you really suggesting that some of the players don't feel the same.

Thats the problem stag.

And yes I am 100% saying the players don't feel the same and if they do then they should never be allowed near an Ireland shirt again.

Rodders, your first sentence hits the nail on the head.

The fans are more supportive and passionate in Thomond and Ravenhill. Therefore the players will feel a bigger connection to them.

You won't convince me that the Irish grandslam team had the same snyergy and passion as say this Ulster team who beat Clermont, Tigers and Munster.

rodders wrote:

red_stag wrote:All I know is that I am more passionate about the ERC than the 6 Nations. I know there are loads of other fans who feel the same. Alan Quinlan has said the same. I saw a thread dedicated to this on this forum where fans said the same thing.

Are you really suggesting that some of the players don't feel the same.

Thats the problem stag.

And yes I am 100% saying the players don't feel the same and if they do then they should never be allowed near an Ireland shirt again.

So we are agreed. The issue stems from the fans. The 16th man.

Thats my whole point. Leinster, Munster, Ulster etc have a 16th man that Ireland don't. An extra player. A boost, a lift, something to inspire them.

We can sort out the reasons but the fact remains that there is a difference.

Look stag, I'll be honest. I'm more excited by the HEC this season than the 6N....or maybe even the summer tour. This is the first time I've felt that way.

I don't feel more passionate about the HEC...its a different feeling.

Would I swap an Ulster HEC win for a series win over the ABs? I honestly can't answer that- The cop out and most honest answer is I want them both more than anything in the world.

In terms of the players, I can't speak for them but I doubt there is anything higher than playing for their country although provincial rugby is right up there for different reasons.

I recall ROG saying in September that a HEC win for Munster wouldn't come close to making up for the disappointment of the RWC, BOD said something similar, and I'm sure thats how all the players feel.

Rodders, the atmosphere in Lansdowne at the weekend was fantastic, it’s very rare that you’ll get that kind of noise, colour and animation from a crowd at an Ireland game. I can assure you Leinster games in Landsowne are also far more raucous than Ireland games. there is no extra gear for the national team, there is no 16th man. that’s the issue. The players don’t care about one more than the other, but there aren’t the same stockpiles of emotion in reserve for the national team.

I'm not disputing that Mick... it is an issue, I just don't belive it is the issue.

The real problems are in selection, coaching and tactics and we shouldn't lose sight of that, certainly I would dispute that any player feels less passionate about Ireland than their province.

Some players maybe don't feel as comfortable or as confident outside the support of their provincial set up but passion and commitment is not to be questioned for me. Every single player would give their right arm to play for Ireland.

Rodders it is far from THE issue.

There is no one reason. I dont think if we got a few flags we would win matches. Just it is an issue that contributes to a team that is already playing badly. When we win though these issues remain.

Rodders they would give their right arm to play for Ireland, but they'd give their right nut for their priovince.

red_stag wrote:Rodders it is far from THE issue.

There is no one reason. I dont think if we got a few flags we would win matches. Just it is an issue that contributes to a team that is already playing badly. When we win though these issues remain.

Rodders they would give their right arm to play for Ireland, but they'd give their right nut for their priovince.

When you say they'd give their right nut... you can preform perfectly well with only one of those, losing an arm would be more life changing. Is the nut surgically removed?

Mickado wrote:

red_stag wrote:Rodders it is far from THE issue.

There is no one reason. I dont think if we got a few flags we would win matches. Just it is an issue that contributes to a team that is already playing badly. When we win though these issues remain.

Rodders they would give their right arm to play for Ireland, but they'd give their right nut for their priovince.

When you say they'd give their right nut... you can preform perfectly well with only one of those, losing an arm would be less life changing. Is the nut surgically removed?

No its ripped out by a supporter of a rival team and used in place of a match ball to kick a winning penalty to deny your team a title!!

Rip off my arm please.

Can I request a pic of Isoa Damudamu in the new gaff please?

He was badly crocked in the Army v Navy game and will miss the rest of the IRB 7s season.

Ta muchly.

red_stag wrote:
Rodders they would give their right arm to play for Ireland, but they'd give their right nut for their priovince.

So basically that explains why so many players can't pass or catch the ball for Ireland but are you saying the provincial players are lacking a pair of nuts?.......

Rodders no they are afraid of losing their nuts if they play badly.

Thats what Joe Schmidt and Declan Kidneys provincial secrets were. They would take a nut from each player.

Fail . . . . .and they lose the other one.

Its a good job for those Munster lads that Kidney has moved on then.... ......

New pub: https://www.606v2.com/t28543-the-dew-drop-inn-virtual-rugby-pub-dar-es-salaam#1181785