European Cup Winners

Which sides have won the European Cup without a dominant Southern Hemisphere player(s)?

Munster 2006/2008. Munster had thirteen Irish men starting in 06. 12 in 08. Although Howlett, Mafi and Tipoki brought more to the side than other non Irish did in 06.

Leinster a bit this season and last.

Wasps 07. Leinster had Elsom

Elsom was man of the match in the 09 final for Leinster I think. But last year it was Sexton.

And Nacewa.

Only 2 non-English players in the starting 15 for Wasps. Reddan and Ibanez

Yeah but Nacewa was quiet that day. Foden was far better. It was the Irish props and Sexton that were the dominant players.

sexton was the man that day in 2011 no one else...

My question wasn't about the number of SH players, just about their dominance within the team throughout the tournament. Were they one of the most important players? Did they consistently produce a match turning performance or moment? How questionable would it have been for the team to reach the final and won without them?

splenetic its kinda impossible to know if a team would have made it to the final without the SH players for sure...

In that case Wasps easily

Yeah so Wasps, they definitely as they didn't have any SH players starting.

Nacewa has always been called a great player by Leinster fans. Whether he was/is as influential as Elsom is difficult to say.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:splenetic its kinda impossible to know if a team would have made it to the final without the SH players for sure...

Of course. That is why I said "how questionable". The teams I wanted people to push to the fore were ones that if they had SH players they weren't particularly close to being a leading aspect.

Toulouse 96/03/05
Brive 97
Bath 98
Ulster 99
Tigers 01 (2 SH pkayers in 02 - but not dominant players)
Wasps 04/07
Munster 06
Leinster 11

HammerofThunor wrote:Yeah so Wasps, they definitely as they didn't have any SH players starting.

Nacewa has always been called a great player by Leinster fans. Whether he was/is as influential as Elsom is difficult to say.

I can say it. He was. And still is. Hugely.

Nacewa is, but he's one of a number of lynchpins. The rest are Irish.

Leinster 2011? Not a hope in hell. Nacewa is vital for them.

Thats no slight. They man played incredible rugby. His solo try against Tigers in the quarters was majestic!

I would not say that Nacewa on his own makes a dominant SH presence for Leinster, especially as he playes on the fringes of the team on the wing.

Pat Lam (Saints 2000), Rocky Elsom (Leinster 2009) are examples for me where a single player were so vital to the team.

I think Leinster could perform adequately if Nacewa was injured/not playing.

He doesn't add 'winnability' to Leinster - in actual fact, no one player ever did; and it is an insult to a side that has proven itself over and over to suggest one player per season keeps them there or thereabouts at top in Europe. Elsom was good but he was only so good because the team ran its operations through him the season he was there. They channelled their effectiveness through him because he was...effective. If he wasn't there they would have chosen different ways to be effective - might have succeeded, might not, but they would still have been competitive.

But Elsom was what he was - a one season mercenary.

What makes Nacewa so different, and why we love him in these parts, is loyalty and passion for Leinster. He came, he stayed, he wants to stay longer, he talks about not being allowed to stay for as long as he wants; he cast aside Fiji international games and the WC itself to stick it out with Leinster and help them through the tough periods when many Irish Internationals were away - and..... Schmidt himself now states that he knows how at home Nacewa is at Leinster because he tried a few times to persuade him to go to Clermont (when he coached there) and Nacewa wasn't having it. So the coach came to the player instead.

It's the fire in his belly when he plays for Leinster (and the beautiful moments of magic he can produce in games) that makes Nacewa a true great in the history of Leinster. No matter where he goes after his time with Leinster, he will always be regarded by Leinster fans (and Irish ones actually) as one of us - a lifelong one of the the family. Another player who has shown the same enthusiasm, same committment and is regarded in a similar vein is Munster's Doug Howlett.

SecretFly wrote:
But Elsom was what he was - a one season mercenary.

And Brad Thorn?

LondonTiger wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
But Elsom was what he was - a one season mercenary.

And Brad Thorn?

That wasn't an insult, BTW. Just calling a spade a spade - Rocky would admit that - he was one season and it was a money trip. No shame but that's what it was.

Brad.... well, it seems it's a bit of a season deal too Although maybe he's already in secret negotiations to prove me wrong. I don't know.

SecretFly wrote:I think Leinster could perform adequately if Nacewa was injured/not playing.

He doesn't add 'winnability' to Leinster - in actual fact, no one player ever did; and it is an insult to a side that has proven itself over and over to suggest one player per season keeps them there or thereabouts at top in Europe. Elsom was good but he was only so good because the team ran its operations through him the season he was there. They channelled their effectiveness through him because he was...effective. If he wasn't there they would have chosen different ways to be effective - might have succeeded, might not, but they would still have been competitive.

But Elsom was what he was - a one season mercenary.

What makes Nacewa so different, and why we love him in these parts, is loyalty and passion for Leinster. He came, he stayed, he wants to stay longer, he talks about not being allowed to stay for as long as he wants; he cast aside Fiji international games and the WC itself to stick it out with Leinster and help them through the tough periods when many Irish Internationals were away - and..... Schmidt himself now states that he knows how at home Nacewa is at Leinster because he tried a few times to persuade him to go to Clermont (when he coached there) and Nacewa wasn't having it. So the coach came to the player instead.

It's the fire in his belly when he plays for Leinster (and the beautiful moments of magic he can produce in games) that makes Nacewa a true great in the history of Leinster. No matter where he goes after his time with Leinster, he will always be regarded by Leinster fans (and Irish ones actually) as one of us - a lifelong one of the the family. Another player who has shown the same enthusiasm, same committment and is regarded in a similar vein is Munster's Doug Howlett.

Excellent post.

Congratulations to Ulster and Leinster. I hope those fans going really enjoy it which I'm sure they will.

Cari wrote:Congratulations to Ulster and Leinster. I hope those fans going really enjoy it which I'm sure they will.

You've got your Grand Slam, Cari. We're tiding up the other little odds and ends in Europe this year

Hmmm, that leaves the Pro12........... with those pesky Ospreys to maybe ruin the icing on the bloody cake!

Oi! Ireland have already stolen My Boy for next season, you're not having the P12 trophy again this year too!

Anyhoo, congrats to Connacht...they're back in the HC now too.

SecretFly wrote:

Cari wrote:Congratulations to Ulster and Leinster. I hope those fans going really enjoy it which I'm sure they will.

You've got your Grand Slam, Cari. We're tiding up the other little odds and ends in Europe this year

Hmmm, that leaves the Pro12........... with those pesky Ospreys to maybe ruin the icing on the bloody cake!

I'd like to hope so but after seeing the Leinster team they'd be facing in the final, not to mention the tough proposition of a Munster semi, my hopes aren't exactly towering.

Knows,
Ye did it 2 years back. In OUR House too! No reason why ye cant do it again.

Believe.

I think Kearney was the dominant player there. Turned the game around in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half.

Great chance now for Leinster to do a double.

Maybe Gibbo but you didn't have the confidence of having reached a Euro final that season. Still, O's have done the double over Leinster this season so who knows

Come 19th May we can add Ulster 2012 to that list

Ulster 1999 .

marty2086 wrote:Come 19th May we can add Ulster 2012 to that list

Yes, because Ulster don't have ANY SH players in their side at the moment.

HammerofThunor wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Come 19th May we can add Ulster 2012 to that list

Yes, because Ulster don't have ANY SH players in their side at the moment.

Only long lost Irishmen