Madrid draw

1st round Raonic vs. Nalbandian.
Winner to play Federer (!)

I typically don't beleive in complaining about draws-- but Federer got a brutal on... 1st tournament back and potentially Ferrer, Djokovic, Nadal! And 1st match mabye Raonic who even Nadal touted as having a great shot with his serve on this court.. shudders.......

oh well, got to beat the best to be the best

Truffin. You should have more faith. Federer has nothing to fear against todays Nalbandian or Raonic. I also see him as a favourite against Djokovic if that semi materialises. But then it gets a bit more tricky.

Still if he wants a win against Nadal on clay Madrid is the place to do it. Does blue clay count or is it a seperate surface category?

hawkeye wrote:Truffin. You should have more faith. Federer has nothing to fear against todays Nalbandian or Raonic. I also see him as a favourite against Djokovic if that semi materialises. But then it gets a bit more tricky.

Still if he wants a win against Nadal on clay Madrid is the place to do it. Does blue clay count or is it a seperate surface category?

Pre tourny jitters:-)

Federer-Djokovic in the same half. Where are conspiracy (aka 12vs12) theorists?

Ferrer showed how to handle Raonic.

Gasquet took Federer out in Rome 2011. Let us see how it goes this time. Both his wins 2005 and 2011 are on clay.

Nadal has a tough first round with Ivo/Davy, perhaps not as tough as Raonic/Nalby.

PS: Looking forward to Isner-DelPo.

@LF

Isner -Delpo will be treat [what ever people may think], big bully boys with great attitude, can't wait for the match.

Roanic/nalby in 1st round, hahahha, Fed might think the draw is kidding.

But yes a tough draw would be better for him ahead of tougher GSlams to come, so its better Federer face the GenNext Kids.

Too bad about Andy. He, together with Federer and Delpo was one of the three players I was most interested in seeing in Madrid.

Federer - because it will be interesting to see if he can carry his good run of form through the clay season.

Delpo - because I am hoping that he will finally start getting really close to where he was before his injury.

Murray - because he is a bit of an enigma on this surface and I was really curious to see if he can put together a good run here.

I am actually less interested in Rafa/Djoker here. For those two, RG is the priority and Madrid/Rome are but minor skirmishes. Even if they meet in the final, not sure if I would read too much to the result.

laverfan wrote:Federer-Djokovic in the same half. Where are conspiracy (aka 12vs12) theorists?

Ferrer showed how to handle Raonic.

Gasquet took Federer out in Rome 2011. Let us see how it goes this time. Both his wins 2005 and 2011 are on clay.

Nadal has a tough first round with Ivo/Davy, perhaps not as tough as Raonic/Nalby.

PS: Looking forward to Isner-DelPo.

laverfan.

I imagine the conspiricy theorists have gone to a better place. One where they can talk about conspiricy theories, physicality, poor english, the death of tennis and most important of all how they really really dislike cute tennis players without being interrupted by any rational views.

Although personally I too have a bad feeling in my bones about Federer and Djokovic being in the same half in Madrid. The stars are beginning to line up in totally the wrong way for the dream Nadal Federer RG final. I am just for the fun of it tempted to blame Murray for withdrawing... Anyway I have shut my eyes, turned round three times and scattered pixie dust so things should be ok.

Isner-Delpo? Mmmm. I may have to find those conspiricy theorists so I can talk about the death of tennis...

The fourth draw is the most intriguing. Isner, Delpo, Tsonga, Dolgo - all in one bunch. Murray would have been in deep waters if he had to play this group. Perhaps all eyes would be on Isner. Djokovic and Nadal already have a leg in the semis. Davy of yesterday, could have given a fight. Tsonga - Dolgo, Monfils - Berdych and Isner - Delpo would be interesting matches before the big fights.

Now listen up all you Madrid fans - especially laverfan.

Can anyone say what unique occurrence it is that has set Madrid apart from all other Masters events (and quite possibly all other ATP tournies in recent history....)

I won't give any clues right now (other than the 'negative' ones below*) because that would make it too easy to crack. It's a perfectly respectable bit of
of trivia and definitely related to actual on-court activity, no tricks or conspiracies I promise ......

*not the blue clay ; and not the ball girls

Is it anything to do with the altitude ?

No, most definitely not.

(although if it was, I suspect one or more of the South American tournies might feature ....??)

Together with Roland Garros and Wimbledon, the Mutua Madrid Open is the only tournament in Europe in which both men and women play.
Its normally only in Slams when both men and women play ?????

No, not that either .

(and anyway I do believe other tournies, in addition to those you mention, are also 'mixed' - eg Estoril & Rome.... and maybe more )

Madrid moving from HC to Clay, perhaps?

H-N, Estoril is a joint event. (Just watching Kanepi-Suarez Navarro).

PS: Did not see Lags72's comment.

LF Thanks lags has already pointed that out

lags72 wrote:No, most definitely not.

(although if it was, I suspect one or more of the South American tournies might feature ....??)

High altitude towns in South America occur primarily in places like Ecuador, Bolivia and Peru where tennis is not popular. Chile and Argentina have 6000m+ mountains, but, apart from a few towns like Mendoza on the lower slopes of the Andes, many South American cities where tennis might be played, like Santiago, Buenos Aires, Sao Paolo and Rio (Olympics) are actually closer to see level than Madrid. Madrid is 6 hours from the sea by car in any direction.

Mind you, it looks like Sao Paolo is higher than Madrid, although sources differ on the exact value.

laverfan - no, not the switch from HC to clay is not the answer.

Although , interestingly, that change was significant as regards the unique occurrence in question

Meanwhile I think one clue might be useful to move things on .....

It is a sequence of events rather than a one-off happening in a single year. By 'unique' I mean that it has not happened in any other tournament, at least not in recent times

HB : good info there on South America

hawkeye wrote:

laverfan wrote:Federer-Djokovic in the same half. Where are conspiracy (aka 12vs12) theorists?

Ferrer showed how to handle Raonic.

Gasquet took Federer out in Rome 2011. Let us see how it goes this time. Both his wins 2005 and 2011 are on clay.

Nadal has a tough first round with Ivo/Davy, perhaps not as tough as Raonic/Nalby.

PS: Looking forward to Isner-DelPo.

laverfan.

I imagine the conspiricy theorists have gone to a better place. One where they can talk about conspiricy theories, physicality, poor english, the death of tennis and most important of all how they really really dislike cute tennis players without being interrupted by any rational views.

Although personally I too have a bad feeling in my bones about Federer and Djokovic being in the same half in Madrid. The stars are beginning to line up in totally the wrong way for the dream Nadal Federer RG final. I am just for the fun of it tempted to blame Murray for withdrawing... Anyway I have shut my eyes, turned round three times and scattered pixie dust so things should be ok.

Isner-Delpo? Mmmm. I may have to find those conspiricy theorists so I can talk about the death of tennis...

I am here and watching hawkeye, I got my eye on you, so not all of us who believe in rigging have left. By the way how unfortunate for #1 seed Djokovic that for the 3rd straight time this season he gets a big 4 matchup in his semi and final, while the #2 seed avoids a big 4 matchup again. Lets see Dubai, 3 members of the big 4 gets who gets murray in his half? Oh Djokovic. Monte carlo 3 members of the big 4 show up, guess what Djokovic gets drawn against murray and Rafa gets a clear half, (although murray lost). Again in Madrid 3 out of 4 big 4 matchups, and guess what Djokovic again gets the extra semi against another big 4 player.

I will rely on the opinion of 3 sets of statisticians who have shown that the Fedal gets extraprotection from the draw rigging committees. Somebody better tell the emperor that his wang chung is hanging out.

Load of rubbish.

socal1976 wrote:I will rely on the opinion of 3 sets of statisticians who have shown that the Fedal gets extraprotection from the draw rigging committees. Somebody better tell the emperor that his wang chung is hanging out.

Where did this mythical 3rd set of statisticians come from? Do you mean that one other person, who is actually a law academic and not a statistician?
Not to mention that the other two sets found that any statistical anomolies favouring the top 2 players started before Fed and Nadal were the top 2 players.
Not everybody will Wang Chung tonight!

There are sports fans, player supporters, and then there are people who depend on promoting a player for their vicarious satisfaction.

The latter category are beyond reason.

I am here and watching hawkeye, I got my eye on you, so not all of us who believe in rigging have left. By the way how unfortunate for #1 seed Djokovic that for the 3rd straight time this season he gets a big 4 matchup in his semi and final, while the #2 seed avoids a big 4 matchup again. Lets see Dubai, 3 members of the big 4 gets who gets murray in his half? Oh Djokovic. Monte carlo 3 members of the big 4 show up, guess what Djokovic gets drawn against murray and Rafa gets a clear half, (although murray lost). Again in Madrid 3 out of 4 big 4 matchups, and guess what Djokovic again gets the extra semi against another big 4 player.

Can't believe what i'm hearing, you have never said this before.

Oh I am not mad with hawkeye it was tongue and cheek JM, not ment to be mean spirited. I just find it odd that when only 3 of the big 4 show up Novak invariably gets the half of the draw with 2 big 4 members. Another interesting trend that is developing with the draw rigging comittees.

social1976

I must have missed that vieled threat before. I'll forgive you because I suspect that it was fear of "pixie dust" that prompted it. Anyway how come your saying here that the player that draws the number 4 seed has a cake walk when on another thread you describe this same player as "the greatest player to have never won a slam"?

Also I was wondering if you might be able to make any sense of this. Saw it on twitter yesterday

do you have any news what's up with Novak?

Not in Madrid so don't know. Currently trying to keep up (badly) with league tables

http://twitter.com/#!/neilharmantimes

It could be something or nothing but wondered as a Djokovic fan if you have any more information?

socal1976 wrote: ... it was tongue and cheek ...

I find this statement ambiguous.

Disappointed that nobody has yet cracked the little conundrum of what it is that has made Madrid unique on the ATP tour.

Would have thought that Laverfan's knowledge of all things historic would have got this one .....

Given that the tourney itself is now in full swing I think I will have to reveal all.

But ..... in true ATP-speak, this will be "Not Before 9pm"

until then .... any further ideas...?

Unfortunately, i don't know what is going on with Novak right now beyond what is generally known. I hope he can get everything together he played really well in miami didn't drop a set and now all this stuff starts to happen, well that is the tour.

hawkeye no veiled threat intended I am peace loving by nature. In response to your question getting fed in a slam semi as opposed to murray every time over the last 5 years is a much harder draw, is there any sane person who would dispute this truism?

socal1976 wrote:Unfortunately, i don't know what is going on with Novak right now beyond what is generally known. I hope he can get everything together he played really well in miami didn't drop a set and now all this stuff starts to happen, well that is the tour.

Sorry - I can't find any reference Socal. WHAT stuff is happening?

Right folks, the time has come. I know just how anxiously you’ve all been waiting so I mustn’t keep you in suspense any longer.

I said that there is a unique sequence of events associated with Madrid which sets it apart from any other Masters event – and, quite possibly, ANY other ATP tournament.

Oh dear, by using the word ‘unique’ I sure will have one helluva lot of on my face if I’m proven wrong.

And the answer is ………..

The past four winners at Madrid mirror precisely the order of the current top four rankings :

Champion 2011 : Novak Djokovic, Ranked 1

Champion 2010 : Rafael Nadal, Ranked 2

Champion 2009 : Roger Federer, Ranked 3

Champion 2008 : Andy Murray, Ranked 4

lags72 wrote:Right folks, the time has come. I know just how anxiously you’ve all been waiting so I mustn’t keep you in suspense any longer.

I said that there is a unique sequence of events associated with Madrid which sets it apart from any other Masters event – and, quite possibly, ANY other ATP tournament.

Oh dear, by using the word ‘unique’ I sure will have one helluva lot of on my face if I’m proven wrong.

And the answer is ………..

The past four winners at Madrid mirror precisely the order of the current top four rankings :

Champion 2011 : Novak Djokovic, Ranked 1

Champion 2010 : Rafael Nadal, Ranked 2

Champion 2009 : Roger Federer, Ranked 3

Champion 2008 : Andy Murray, Ranked 4

I wonderv what happens this year?Back to 4 again - Tsonga?

Let's not confuse seedings with rankings

lags72 wrote:Let's not confuse seedings with rankings

Well what does happen next then. Please tell?

Dunno !

I can happily dig up a bit of historical trivia, but as for future happenings .......my predictions are definitely not to be relied upon.

Although, I'm minded to put a few quid on Rafa to take the title back from Novak