Playoff time - Quins vs Saints - Saturday 12th May 2:45 KO

So,
Quins finished the season top of the tables, but now comes the time when mistakes are punished in full.
They have been there before, playing LI in a home semi-final and lost out.
This time, I hope they wont be taking anything lightly. A good number of the current team will have played in that game Robson/Care/Easter/JTH/Brown ect. and be suitably charged up for Saturday.

Quins team pretty much picked itself, only varioations on injury -

Marler/Grey/Johnston
Robson/Kohn
Robshaw/Mauri/Easter
Care
Evans
S.Smith
JTH
Lowe
Tom Williams
Brown

Bench of -
Rob Buchanan/Lambert/Croall/Clegg/Dickson/Chisholm/Hopper

I think that Ugo Monye is injured at the moment - hence Tom Williams.

Who are Saints likely to field?
Is Hartley going to be back from his ban?
Is Ashton injured?
Lawes/Tom Wood and Callum Clarke all wont be available.

Grey is back . Doesn't that bench need another player?

Yes. Probably Guest or Wallace.

Hartley is still banned. Saints hope Ashton will be fit.

Ah yes, I was thinking match day 22 - forgot the extra man.
You are right, probably Guest of Wallace - although Guest seems to have been favoured of late. I dont know if Wallace is injured or just out of form in training.

Well, withought Hartley the Saints front row seems a little less daunting.

Who are Saints likely to field?

Soane
Long
Mujati
Sorenson
Day
Craig
Dowson
Wilson
Dickson
Lamb
Diggin
Dowson
Pisi
Ashton?
Foden

Dowson at 7 and 12? I'm guessing you meant Downey. Elliot played the other day so I'd imagine he'd be in for Ashton if injured.

By the way what has happened to Armitiev at Saints? He seems to have gone off the radar after just a bright start.

We can beat that line-up, I think. Need another big performance from the pack though

Gut feel, at least one aay team will make the final.

Obviously I hope it is not Sarries.

Realistically it should be a Quins vs Leicester final but both Saints and Sarries are capable of winning.

Quins can win this if we play to our best. But I feel of all the play off teams we're the weakest at the moment and the lack of experience will hinder us too..

The guys need a massive game and to contain the Saints pack, do that and they're fairly toothless.

HammerofThunor wrote:Dowson at 7 and 12? I'm guessing you meant Downey. Elliot played the other day so I'd imagine he'd be in for Ashton if injured.

Ooops, yes - meant Downey

Who is the referee for Saturday? Please not Barnes, Please not Barnes.

Saints are in pretty good form in the second half of the AP season.

They will take good heart from the comprehensive drubbing they gave Quins at the start of the year (admittly at FG) and have only lost to the other semi-finalists. The match against Sarries was in filthy conditions with Hodgson effectively winning a goal kicking duel. Admittedly against Tigers they were overwhelmed.

Saints go in to these play-offs as the least fancied team, but can use that to their advantage. If they are able to get front foot ballQuins will need to be at their defensive best as the likes of Pisi, Foden and (if fit) Ashton will cause no end of problems.

Quins will likely field:

Marler
Gray
Johnston
Robson
Kohn
Fa'Asavalu
Robshaw
Easter
Care
Evans
Smith/Monye
JTH
Lowe
Williams/Monye
Brown

Bench of:
Buchanan, Lambert, Collier, Valejos, Guest, Dickson, Clegg, Hopper/Chisholm

Looks like a quality first XV but the forward subs are weak, really really weak. If Saints are in the game when it comes to sub time then I can see them winning it.

Our starting pack should be able to nullify the Saints pack, we have to make the most of that advantage though and score plenty. We can't afford an off form Evans either as he's missed some easy kicks this season so far.

I'd have thought the Saints would have fielded something like:

Tiny, Long, PDJ
Sorenson, Say
Manoa, Wilson, Dowson
Dickson, Myler
Downey, Pisi
Ashton, Foden, Diggin

Bench: Waller, McMillan, Mujarti, Craig, Nutely, Roberts, Lamb, May.

Who is the referee for Saturday? Please not Barnes, Please not Barnes

He's normally quite generous to Quins. He even listens to Robshaw's moaning.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I'd have thought the Saints would have fielded something like:

Tiny, Long, PDJ
Sorenson, Say
Manoa, Wilson, Dowson
Dickson, Myler
Downey, Pisi
Ashton, Foden, Diggin

Bench: Waller, McMillan, Mujarti, Craig, Nutely, Roberts, Lamb, May.

Who is the referee for Saturday? Please not Barnes, Please not Barnes

He's normally quite generous to Quins. He even listens to Robshaw's constant moaning.

There fixed that for ya.

I prefer the term bleating

Wayne Barnes likes a bit of bleating, so he does.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
He's normally quite generous to Quins.

That's the most bizzare/untrue rugby related comment I have ever read!!! (and that's including, "I'd start Boris Stankovich at loosehead in the 6 Nations". I'm presuming it must be a joke :P

Blumbus23 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:
He's normally quite generous to Quins.

That's the most bizzare/untrue rugby related comment I have ever read!!! (and that's including, "I'd start Boris Stankovich at loosehead in the 6 Nations". I'm presuming it must be a joke :P

All fans believe there are refs who are bad for their team, usually incorrectly.

Quins fans moan about Barnes - I have yet to see him referee in a way that favours Quin's opponents. If anything the way he refs does tend to favour the way Quins play.

Is not wanting Barnes or Clancy an understandable wish for a rugby fan regardless of perceived biases etc against or for their team? Maybe they just like watching rugby matches...

Are there no Saints fans on this board??

Not too fussed about Barnes except that he struggles to control games which have a bit of niggle in them.

Saints fans hate Barnes and reckon he cost them a number of matches against Tigers.

Last matchup the general consensus seemed to be that Foden outplayed Brown quite considerably, that is one face-off I'm interested in particularly. Dickson- Care and Ashton- Monye too

Foden's form has been pretty damn good for Saints since returning from NZ, something that has been downplayed by some Mike Brown fans.

Danny Care seems to be blowing hot and cold - however Lee dickson's form has hit a slump and I would not be surprised to see Care wearing the "9" shirt in the 1st test v SA.

Ashton has not looked good since coming back from NZ and the bother with Alessana's dreadlocks - until the last two rounds where he started tracking the basll again. Doubts exits over both his and Monye's fitness I thought.

LT - I think thats true, Not sure about Monye being fit for this weekend.
I remember SL saying something in his interview about Monye being crocked at the moment but either featuring in the Final (if quins get there) or the Baabaa's fixture.
I think he also said the same for Ashton and Northants.

propdavid_london wrote:Who is the referee for Saturday? Please not Barnes, Please not Barnes.

Andrew Small (with Dave Pearson up at WR)

Quins team is up:
15. Mike Brown
14. Tom Williams
13. George Lowe
12. Jordan Turner-Hall
11. Sam Smith
10. Nick Evans
9. Karl Dickson

1. Joe Marler
2. Joe Gray
3. James Johnston
4. Olly Kohn
5. George Robson
6. Maurie Fa'asavalu
7. Chris Robshaw (c)
8. Nick Easter

16. Rob Buchanan
17. Mark Lambert
18. Will Collier
19. Tomas Vallejos
20. Tom Guest
21. Richard Bolt
22. Rory Clegg
23. Matt Hopper

Care and Monye out with niggles but their replacements are arguably better. Otherwise it's a full strength team.

So hyped for this!!!

Dickson vs Dickson at half back, will be interesting to see the level of 'brotherly love' being shown tomorrow.

Used to be even more interesting when they had Mark Easter as well.

Usually Monye has taken an age to recover from injuries, so I could see him missing the summer tour now.

Word from the club was that "Monners" (as Conor O'Shea has it - I think it's an Irish thing) was recovering faster than expected but still not quite ready. I can't imagine that Lancaster would have named him (or Care) in the squad if he didn't expect them to be fit.

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/story/163793.html

Teams Listed -
Pretty much as listed above for quins. Care is injured though! Its Dickson vs Dickson
Ashton is fit to play. Lamb gets nod over Myler.

Harlequins: Brown; Williams, Lowe, Turner-Hall, S Smith; Evans, Dickson; Marler, Gray, Johnston, Kohn, Robson; Fa'asavalu, Robshaw (capt), Easter.

Replacements: Buchanan, Lambert, Collier, Vallejos, Guest, Bolt, Clegg, Hopper.

Northampton: Foden; Ashton, Pisi, Downey, Diggin; Lamb, Dickson (capt); Tonag'uiha, Long, Mujati; Sorensen, Day; Craig, Dowson, Wilson.

Replacements: McMillan, Waller, Doran-Jones, Nutley, Harrison, Roberts, Myler, May.

Send Mo at Lamb all game

Yea Mo and JTh running at lamb all game long will make his life a lot tougher.

We should be better in the backrow looking at those players, we have to make that count if we're to win.

I'm sure that Ryan knows whats coming.
I must say that that Saints bench doesnt look half as intimidating as the one Tigers can field.
Hopefully Quins can get a level field in the pack and make sure that Pisi gets hit hard just as much as Lamb - stop the ball from getting to Foden/Ashton et al.

I'm looking forward to this game a lot. Got my tickets in the cheap seats behind the posts but conveniently near the Quins Head.

The Saints bench is still pretty handy, though - PDJ, Nutley, Myler and May are all good guys to bring on.

I am less confident in the Quins bench. Buchanan is good but inexperienced, Lambert solid, Collier an unknown quantity, Vallejos has been a bit of a penalty liability in the past.

Bolt is unproven, Clegg can go well is the team is clicking (remember Thomond Park, Rory, remember Thomond Park) but can't lift the game the way NEv can (but then again, who can?) , Hopper could add some verve if the game breaks up - but would be exposed against Pisi. Guest, though, is a potential game changer if the game opens up.

Quins must be hoping that the starting team has enough in the tank to go 80 minutes.

Bit of a recurring theme that

Ha, I think Quins always hope that the starting 15 will do the job!
Guest still hasnt really hit his straps since coming back from injury - now is a good time to do that though.

Clegg, well we cant keep going back to that 1 game when there have been plenty of howlers.

yappysnap wrote:Are there no Saints fans on this board??

Sorry I'm running late - I'm having to spend all my time at work actually doing, well, work itself.

From my point of view Saints team as expected. Second row unbalanced as both enforcer type locks are injured (was hoping Manoa would be back in time). Thought there was a chance that JM would move Craig into the second row, Dowson to 6 and Nutley in at 7 but not to be. With Day, Sorenson, Craig & Dowson I can see us trying to target the Quins lineout, although I'm not convinced we will get much from it as Grey is usually accurate in that area. In the backs once Ashton was fit there was only ever going to be the Lamb or Myler call at 10 - neither are particularly in form but would have gone with Myler myself - his off form tends to be tidy but uninspiring, Lamb's off form tends to more calamitous. Expect Downey to stand in the 10 channel when defending with Pisi in the 12 channel and Lamb moved out to face Lowe or the wingers. That will be the plan anyway although Lamb seems to forget it on a regular basis. I will give him his do though, he may be weak defensively but unlike Cipriani at least he doesn't disappear on defense and does try to put himself about a bit.

Overall Quins to shade it for me. Think backrow and breakdown will be the key and the sum of Robshaw, Mo, Easter & Guest later in the game is stronger than Dowson (7 is his worst position in the backrow), Craig, Wilson & Nutley/Harrison. Quins by 7 or 10 for me although a lot will depend on how the ref see's the scrums. Saints are known to push up and Quins, and in particular Johnson, rely on winning the hit so can go early.

Craig has really impressed me over the last couple of weeks. I really do not see Quins back row being as dominant as every one here is assuming.

I put a small wager on Saints to win this - odds were not over generous as all the bookies seem to have this as only marginally in Quins favour. (Odds on a Sarries win were much more generous)

B91212 wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Are there no Saints fans on this board??

Sorry I'm running late - I'm having to spend all my time at work actually doing, well, work itself.

From my point of view Saints team as expected. Second row unbalanced as both enforcer type locks are injured (was hoping Manoa would be back in time). Thought there was a chance that JM would move Craig into the second row, Dowson to 6 and Nutley in at 7 but not to be. With Day, Sorenson, Craig & Dowson I can see us trying to target the Quins lineout, although I'm not convinced we will get much from it as Grey is usually accurate in that area. In the backs once Ashton was fit there was only ever going to be the Lamb or Myler call at 10 - neither are particularly in form but would have gone with Myler myself - his off form tends to be tidy but uninspiring, Lamb's off form tends to more calamitous. Expect Downey to stand in the 10 channel when defending with Pisi in the 12 channel and Lamb moved out to face Lowe or the wingers. That will be the plan anyway although Lamb seems to forget it on a regular basis. I will give him his do though, he may be weak defensively but unlike Cipriani at least he doesn't disappear on defense and does try to put himself about a bit.

Overall Quins to shade it for me. Think backrow and breakdown will be the key and the sum of Robshaw, Mo, Easter & Guest later in the game is stronger than Dowson (7 is his worst position in the backrow), Craig, Wilson & Nutley/Harrison. Quins by 7 or 10 for me although a lot will depend on how the ref see's the scrums. Saints are known to push up and Quins, and in particular Johnson, rely on winning the hit so can go early.

Cheers for the Saints view B always sucks when you have to actually work at work doesn't it?!

Pretty much agree with everything you've said there, I think most Quins fans would have worried more about Myler starting as although he isn't as flair as Lamb he has no real weakness either.

Although we should on paper control the breakdown Saints have been really physical in their last few matches and I can see you getting on top of us as a unit in the forwards if our pack aren't completely switched on.

Likewise in the backs you have a fair bit more experience then us and when on form Ashton, Diggin, Pisi and Foden can be electric. I'd rate all of them over their Quins counterparts when at their best, the only real difference this season is that our guys have been a lot more consistent.

Looking at both teams squads they're a lot weaker then Tigers 23 so who ever wins this is going to have one hell of a fight on their hands against Leicester, Quins can't afford to play their first team for the full 80 as even if we did win that would be far too draining ahead of the final! We're all going to have to trust the subs, in particular Clegg as we can not endanger Evans now

We've got 2 weeks to recover though

?

Ah in that case let them play the full 80!

Yeah the final isn't until the 26th May, so for me Evans should play the full 80 unless we are clearly going to win (I doubt that will be the case) if possible as whilst Clegg could pull us through I would much rather play Nevans in such a high pressure match

Yea just look back to the Tigers match and what happened when Nev and Easter went off then.

Guest seems fairly off form at the moment sadly.

I'd rather see Myler at out half for Saints. I have no confidence in Lamb. He could play fantastic for 79 minutes and lose the match in the 80th.

As said above, Lamb is not exactly a defensive liability, but isn't much more than a speed bump.

If I were playing against Saints, I would pressure Lamb on every sequence, and at every opportunity. But, please don't tell Quins that. They probably don't know...........