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England V West Indies, Lords, 1st Test Thread

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Post by Duty281 Wed 16 May 2012, 8:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just a little under 15 hours now until the English Test Summer gets underway with the first of three tests against the lowly West Indies. This is seen as little more than a tune up for England, with the bigger obstacle of South Africa to come later in the summer.

Indeed, England are seen as overwhelming favourites for the series despite a disappointing Winter campaign in the UAE and Sri Lanka which saw them just about hold on to their World no.1 ranking. In the red corner, the West Indies are coming over to England on the back of a 2-0 home defeat to the Australians but their captain Darren Sammy remains hopeful of an upset.

Teams

England 1 Andrew Strauss (capt), 2 Alastair Cook, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Kevin Pietersen, 5 Ian Bell, 6 Jonny Bairstow, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Tim Bresnan, 9 Stuart Broad, 10 Graeme Swann, 11 James Anderson

West Indies 1 Adrian Barath, 2 Kieran Powell, 3 Kirk Edwards, 4 Darren Bravo, 5 Shivnarine Chanderpaul, 6 Marlon Samuels, 7 Denesh Ramdin (wk), 8 Darren Sammy (capt), 9 Kemar Roach, 10 Ravi Rampaul, 11 Fidel Edwards

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Enjoy!


Last edited by Duty281 on Thu 17 May 2012, 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by msp83 Fri 18 May 2012, 5:55 pm

Just missed the action after lunch, but England just continued their good work, and most importantly, the captain has gone on to a ton, a much needed one to take away all that pressure that was building. Hate Trott for getting out to Sammy of all the people!. But to be fair to the WI captain, a decent ball in a decent spel, supported by a good catch from Ramdin.
I feel KP has to find some challenge to motivate himself, the quality of the attack and the pitch can't be the factor at the moment.
West Indies already waiting for Strauss to call his side in it looks like.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 18 May 2012, 5:58 pm

Poor over rate by the Windies, 2 minutes from the scheduled close and still 12 overs to go.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 18 May 2012, 5:59 pm

KP gone Sad
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Post by Duty281 Fri 18 May 2012, 6:00 pm

Oh KP has missed out big time.

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Post by msp83 Fri 18 May 2012, 6:00 pm

So England leads!. But out goes KP, Samuels the spinner the wicket taker!.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 18 May 2012, 6:03 pm

Even with the extra 30mins i still doubt that the Windies will get the overs in.
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Post by gboycottnut Fri 18 May 2012, 6:04 pm

msp83 wrote:So England leads!. But out goes KP, Samuels the spinner the wicket taker!.

Now a chance to see if Geoff Boycott's theory/comment today about Ian Bell not being able to pick the doosra is correct.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Fri 18 May 2012, 6:11 pm

So , given England go last, does that wicket and the chance to skittle England give the Windies a slight edge here?

or can eng get a bit of a lead and make it worth going second? Without a good lead having to bat last could be a problem.

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Post by eirebilly Fri 18 May 2012, 6:14 pm

The biggest problem is the weather forcast for Sunday Trebs. It doesnt look good.
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Post by msp83 Fri 18 May 2012, 6:21 pm

So we aren't getting in all the overs, 259-3, and they are going off. Strauss comes back to form in style, scoring yet another hundred at the home of cricket, his home ground.
Seems like some possible injury trouble with Fidel Edwards in that last over, That will be terrible for the already deflated West Indies.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 18 May 2012, 6:23 pm

England's day again. We have a lead of 16 with 7 remaining which is a great platform to get a first innings lead of 250+.

It's great to say that Strauss led by example with the bat, it's been a long time since that happened. Cook was a tad unlucky in his dismissal while Trott and KP will feel they missed out. The Windies bowlers are slowing losing heart and they should start to tell tomorrow.

The weather is great for tomorrow so should see another full day's play.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Fri 18 May 2012, 6:24 pm

That's bad news Billy. Not surprised as it's been rubbish this May (again).

They really ought to leave these matches until June.

If it turns bad Sunday it'll probably stay through Monday forcing a draw.

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Post by msp83 Fri 18 May 2012, 7:26 pm

The only way to find some positive for the WI is to think that 3 of England's top 4 mised out on big score so far.
Now all that they can do is to hope tomorrow will be a new, and they will have the better of it. But Strauss is looking good, and Bell has the best opportunity to forget the disasters of the winter with a big score. And unlike the West Indies, or any other test side, England bats all the way down to 10, so a big, big lead, anything less than 200, England should be disappointed. And that should be enough to win them the match, even if a few overs are lost to the weather.

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Post by Shelsey93 Fri 18 May 2012, 8:31 pm

Emphatically England's day.

A good hundred from Strauss, though i was glad to see him not agree with Wardy that it was his most important 100. In fact, his 100 on debut, his four Ashes tons, the 177 v NZ in the 'last chance saloon', and his twin centuries at Chennai were all more important. Playing against WI's bowlers suits him, as they come on to the bat and sometimes give him the width he likes. But they didn't bowl as badly as they have to him in the past, as is indicated by the proportion of his runs scored on the drive. I never thought his position was under threat unless the summer was disastrous for both him and the team.

Maybe Pietersen got a little carried away, and played a one-day type high-risk rotating the strike shot to get out. With the light closing in maybe he could have waited until tomorrow to start counter-attacking.

Of the WI bowlers Roach was off colour, Fidel tried hard, Gabriel looked decent but manageable, and Sammy did what Sammy does.

Hopefully, with iffy forecasts for Sunday in particular in mind, England will make a fairly attacking declaration tomorrow afternoon, with a lead of 200 or so. They don't want to leave themselves under pressure to bowl WI out on the last day.


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Post by JDizzle Fri 18 May 2012, 8:56 pm

I've just seen Broad's figures for the last year! They are Philander-esque! This is his 9th Test since the start of when we played India last year and he has 47 wickets at an average of 16.77. Staggering. He is starting to become the bowler everyone said he would be, and it looks like he is stepping up to lead this attack with Jimmy. notworthy

Consider out of those 9 matches, he played 4 on the notoriously seamer unfriendly conditions of the UAE and Sri Lanka.

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Post by Liam Fri 18 May 2012, 8:59 pm

Great knock from Strauss, had a feeling he'd come good, he was looking in good nick for Middlesex.

However, he is an awful started after being not out the night before, he seems to struggle to kick on, which is why he only has a top score of 177. I don't know what the exact figures are, but there was mention about it one year, think it was against NZ in the home series, maybe 2009?.

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Post by Duty281 Fri 18 May 2012, 9:16 pm

JDizzle wrote:I've just seen Broad's figures for the last year! They are Philander-esque! This is his 9th Test since the start of when we played India last year and he has 47 wickets at an average of 16.77. Staggering. He is starting to become the bowler everyone said he would be, and it looks like he is stepping up to lead this attack with Jimmy. notworthy

Consider out of those 9 matches, he played 4 on the notoriously seamer unfriendly conditions of the UAE and Sri Lanka.

Anderson & Broad > Steyn and Morkel

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Post by Shelsey93 Fri 18 May 2012, 9:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:
JDizzle wrote:I've just seen Broad's figures for the last year! They are Philander-esque! This is his 9th Test since the start of when we played India last year and he has 47 wickets at an average of 16.77. Staggering. He is starting to become the bowler everyone said he would be, and it looks like he is stepping up to lead this attack with Jimmy. notworthy

Consider out of those 9 matches, he played 4 on the notoriously seamer unfriendly conditions of the UAE and Sri Lanka.

Anderson & Broad > Steyn and Morkel

A very difficult one to judge. At the moment I'd say Steyn and Anderson are equal - Anderson better with the new ball, but Steyn more hostile later on, and better with reverse swing. I can't split Broad and Morkel at all. Both are similar, in that they have off days, but both now seem to have found the consistency they've been striving for. Perhaps Broad edges it on swing, and Morkel on hostiling. But it is impossible to split really.

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Post by gboycottnut Fri 18 May 2012, 10:59 pm

Shelsey93 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JDizzle wrote:I've just seen Broad's figures for the last year! They are Philander-esque! This is his 9th Test since the start of when we played India last year and he has 47 wickets at an average of 16.77. Staggering. He is starting to become the bowler everyone said he would be, and it looks like he is stepping up to lead this attack with Jimmy. notworthy

Consider out of those 9 matches, he played 4 on the notoriously seamer unfriendly conditions of the UAE and Sri Lanka.

Anderson & Broad > Steyn and Morkel

A very difficult one to judge. At the moment I'd say Steyn and Anderson are equal - Anderson better with the new ball, but Steyn more hostile later on, and better with reverse swing. I can't split Broad and Morkel at all. Both are similar, in that they have off days, but both now seem to have found the consistency they've been striving for. Perhaps Broad edges it on swing, and Morkel on hostiling. But it is impossible to split really.

It can be argued that South Africa now have a stronger bowling attack than what England have, due to the other bowlers apart from Steyn and Morkel. There is Philander, De Lange, Parnell and for the first time in ages South Africa now have a potential matchwinning leg-spinner in Imran Tahir.

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Post by Carrotdude Sat 19 May 2012, 12:14 am

But after Jimmy and Broad England have Finn (who should be playing imo) and Swann playing with Onions and Bresnan waiting in the wings, just as good - better in fact I reckon but they are both excellent. I love the fact England now regularly take 20 wickets.

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Post by gboycottnut Sat 19 May 2012, 1:30 am

Carrotdude wrote:But after Jimmy and Broad England have Finn (who should be playing imo) and Swann playing with Onions and Bresnan waiting in the wings, just as good - better in fact I reckon but they are both excellent. I love the fact England now regularly take 20 wickets.


England have a good bowling unit, but apart from Anderson and Swann who are genuinely world class bowlers, the others are well overrated by the media and English cricket pundits.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 May 2012, 8:11 am

England have Anderson, South Africa got Steyn, and even now, the latter edges it for me, although not by much as was the case may be 2 years ago.
England has Broad, SA has Morne. Think they both are at more or less similar level.
England has Bresnan/Finn, SA has Philander. Well, as of now, the South African wins this well and truly, although that doesn't mean Bresnan or Finn are any less with the ball, but Philander has been just brilliant so far, and the English conditions might add more edge to his bowling.
England has Swann, SA has Tahir. This one clearly by a long margin goes to the English. The only other spinner who can give Swanny a run for his money at the moment is Saeed Ajmal of Pakistan.
But there is one other factor that is in SA's advantage, and that is the presence of the world's bet all-rounder in their side, Jacques Kallis has cut down on his bowling duties big time, but you can be rest asured of 10-12 rather pacy, acurate overs from the big man, and he has a happy nack of picking up wickets.

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Post by Shelsey93 Sat 19 May 2012, 9:35 am

msp83 wrote:England have Anderson, South Africa got Steyn, and even now, the latter edges it for me, although not by much as was the case may be 2 years ago.
England has Broad, SA has Morne. Think they both are at more or less similar level.
England has Bresnan/Finn, SA has Philander. Well, as of now, the South African wins this well and truly, although that doesn't mean Bresnan or Finn are any less with the ball, but Philander has been just brilliant so far, and the English conditions might add more edge to his bowling.
England has Swann, SA has Tahir. This one clearly by a long margin goes to the English. The only other spinner who can give Swanny a run for his money at the moment is Saeed Ajmal of Pakistan.
But there is one other factor that is in SA's advantage, and that is the presence of the world's bet all-rounder in their side, Jacques Kallis has cut down on his bowling duties big time, but you can be rest asured of 10-12 rather pacy, acurate overs from the big man, and he has a happy nack of picking up wickets.

Good assessment.

The Bresnan/Finn v Philander one is hard to judge. Philander on his winter form definitely wins it though, as you say. It is a case of whether he can rediscover that this summer.

Tahir is yet to demonstrate that he is a good Test bowler, and so whilst he has the potential to do great things for SA, I would still categorise him as a weak link at the moment.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 19 May 2012, 11:01 am

Philander has only bowled on green tops so far. Let him bowl on some flat decks. Bresnan and Finn have done well on flat decks so I would rate them higher at the moment.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:09 am

Shanky, while there is that particular aspect to Philander, it also has to be considered that he did really well, way better than either Finn or Bresnan has done on helpful tracks.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 19 May 2012, 11:14 am

Neither Finn or Bresnan have played on tracks as helpful as the ones Philander has played on. And Vernon has had the pleasure of bowling to two ordinary batting line ups. New Zealand is one and Sri Lanka who are usually crap away from home.

Finn has done well against India in India on some really placid tracks albeit in a different format. Bresnan too has done well against a strong Indian batting line up last summer in the Tests.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:15 am

Edwards seemms like he's down on pace, and in fact Roach also, in his first over of the day never hit the kind of pace that is generally associated with him. But Fidel did manage to get some shape on the ball today morning, he didn't do that yesterday. Strauss and Bell have to be careful in this first hour, if they get through that, there are runs to make and take away.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:16 am

Lets see how they all would do in the head to head this English summer.
That would be a fine series!.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 19 May 2012, 11:16 am

Personally, having watched Philander bowl, I really dont think he has got anything special about him. He bowls line and length and gets a bit of seam movement either way. But I dont think he has the ability to get the old ball to reverse nor does it get that steepling bounce nor he is express.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:17 am

Strauss has had a poor history of starting afresh from a notout position overnight, and yet again it happens. Roach gets him, England 266-4.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sat 19 May 2012, 11:21 am

shankythebiggestengfan wrote:Personally, having watched Philander bowl, I really dont think he has got anything special about him. He bowls line and length and gets a bit of seam movement either way. But I dont think he has the ability to get the old ball to reverse nor does it get that steepling bounce nor he is express.
I would like to add that I dont think the batsmen have played him well enough but lets see how he goes in England.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 19 May 2012, 11:21 am

poor start to the day for eng.

collapse incoming followed by Windies batsmen (in other words Shiv) setting a tricky total and winning.

Engs batting still suspect.

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Post by robbo277 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:22 am

Before today Strauss had resumed on 100+ 6 times and never added more than 6 runs. That's 7 times now.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:23 am

Young Jonny Bairstow is now joined Ian bell in the middle. The lad is really tallented, but has his game developed enough to play test cricket? Seems like he has got a fine temprament, lets see how he would cope, especially as the WI would be now on a positive frame of mind with that early wicket.

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Post by robbo277 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:25 am

msp83 wrote:Young Jonny Bairstow is now joined Ian bell in the middle. The lad is really tallented, but has his game developed enough to play test cricket? Seems like he has got a fine temprament, lets see how he would cope, especially as the WI would be now on a positive frame of mind with that early wicket.

I was thinking along similar lines, but his stats have just popped up and he's not another Morgan (poor FC record, good ODI record). He averages mid-40s in first class cricket with a best of 205. He hit a half century for the Lions against this WI team as well, so here's hoping he can go well here.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 19 May 2012, 11:26 am

why did the bbc class strauss as two wickets?

they've got Eng as 5 down after Strauss.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:27 am

Shanky, I was surprised to see Philander playing ahead of Lonwabo Tsotsobe in that comeback test of his against the Australians, had similar views about him as you had expressed above, but now that I've seen him in action since then, I think I'd give him greater credit. He now bowls at a lively enough pace, above 130 consistently, moves the ball both ways, and at times did manage to swing the new ball. And his line and length are almost perfect. No comparisons at this moment, but the great Glenn McGrath too had many similar atributes!.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 19 May 2012, 11:28 am

there's really player called Philanderer? doesn't suggest a hard working chap does it.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:29 am

Roach's pace is up to where it really belongs!.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 19 May 2012, 11:31 am

windies finding their focus. I think the tendency to drift in and out has hurt them in recent years.

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:31 am

trebellbobaggins wrote:there's really player called Philanderer? doesn't suggest a hard working chap does it.

Good one Trebs!. not a bad way to get the day going!.

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Post by robbo277 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:36 am

Bairstow missed out on a short wide one, but looks good off his legs. 9 runs, 2 fours through the leg side.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 19 May 2012, 11:53 am

Bairstow getting a good one there.

I hope they give him some time.

Anyway, looks like we will squander our good start then and have a nasty chase in the fourth.

Windies in charge?

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Post by robbo277 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:56 am

trebellbobaggins wrote:Bairstow getting a good one there.

I hope they give him some time.

Anyway, looks like we will squander our good start then and have a nasty chase in the fourth.

Windies in charge?

Re: Bairstow - definitely

Re: Windies in charge - definitely not

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 May 2012, 11:58 am

after looking quite impressive, Jonny Bairstow's debut innings is cut short by Kemar Roach, out LBW for 16. Matt Prior now joins Bell, and started playing his shots right away.

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Post by alfie Sat 19 May 2012, 12:03 pm

So Bairstows first Test innings comes to not much. Not sure we can read too much into that ...came in to a newish ball ,stayed a while , couple of nice shots , out to a good ball - could have been better , could have been worse...

He will certainly have the rest of this series anyway , so we will wait and see.

Good First hour for West Indies , but England are already 60 runs on , and still plenty of batting. Enough to make Trebell anxious , but mostvEngland fans will still be comfortable Smile

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Post by msp83 Sat 19 May 2012, 12:05 pm

That first hour certainly belonged to the West Indies, Roach with those 2 wickets have given them some hope of staying in the game.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sat 19 May 2012, 12:07 pm

It's a good point about the new ball Alfie. Never easy for a middle order debutant to effectively be opening.

He shows glimpses of real talent. It was a good ball.

The pitch might be livening up too. I do think it'll make the chase tricky but it could also cause real problems for the Windies who seem utterly dependent on the Shivmeister these days.

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Post by robbo277 Sat 19 May 2012, 12:12 pm

In past test matches Lords has got flatter as the game has worn on. West Indies have no front-line spinner. Our lead will be at least 100. Even if West Indies were to make 350, I'd back us to make 250 against this attack.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 19 May 2012, 12:18 pm

Strauss' dismissal was dangerously close to a no-ball and Bairstow should be disappointed that he only made 16. Currently, the lead is 74 with 5 wickets left, the remaining England batsmen just need to raise that to 200 and the Test will be effectively over.

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