London Welsh - Ground Decision by RFU

I thought a decision reagrding LW's ground criteria was to be made by the RFU today. Has anyone heard anything? I can't find anything on the Web.

I thought that it was tomorrow. And so far as I'm aware it's a PRL decision.

Strange you have an intense interest in English club decisions mind.

Portnoy, I'm sure you are aware of London Welsh's history re: Welsh players. They have Welsh-qualified players in their ranks and a Welsh coach. Hence my interest.

Only a prod in the ribs Od.

JPR is amongst my favourite all-time players. And John Taylor (the well-known Englishman) steeples above anyone in terms of understanding of how to do what is right as opposed to what is right for their own ego.

Ospreydragon wrote:Portnoy, I'm sure you are aware of London Welsh's history re: Welsh players. They have Welsh-qualified players in their ranks and a Welsh coach. Hence my interest.

Yeah so this means an English team playing in England is set to become Wales' 5th Region right?

Not been the experience with LI Morgan.

What are the rules on English clubs and the number of EQ players they have to have in their squads? Are there any? If there are then London Irish and London Welsh could only ever be of very limited use to Ireland or Wales.

Portnoy wrote:Not been the experience with LI Morgan.

I know. I don't think there is any sort of chance of an English club ever becoming a Welsh region. Some on here seem to think LW will though all because we had a few players play for them before the pro era...

There are no rules on EQ players. There are rules on foreign players but this is only for non-EU/Kolpak players. Clubs get money from the RFU based on the number of EQ players.

I believe there ARE on academies producing English players. Not sure of the details or how it would work.

Morgannwg wrote:

Ospreydragon wrote:Portnoy, I'm sure you are aware of London Welsh's history re: Welsh players. They have Welsh-qualified players in their ranks and a Welsh coach. Hence my interest.

Yeah so this means an English team playing in England is set to become Wales' 5th Region right?

Morg - not as such but its heavily supported by the Welsh in London who will come out in droves to watch premier rugby, and the history's there for all to see !!

Personally I wouldn't be upset if the plans to re-locate to Oxford happen ! There's a few of us here who would happily support

Oxford Welsh wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

Ospreydragon wrote:Portnoy, I'm sure you are aware of London Welsh's history re: Welsh players. They have Welsh-qualified players in their ranks and a Welsh coach. Hence my interest.

Yeah so this means an English team playing in England is set to become Wales' 5th Region right?

Morg - not as such but its heavily supported by the Welsh in London who will come out in droves to watch premier rugby, and the history's there for all to see !!

Personally I wouldn't be upset if the plans to re-locate to Oxford happen ! There's a few of us here who would happily support

Average gate in London: this season 1,270
last season : 1,172
2009-10 : 1,457
2008-9 : 1,069

The Welsh have been turning out in their droves.

Could make a decent 5th region.

[ed oops http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=285&statType=home_Att ]

Things will be different when it's premier and possibly Euro rugby on offer. The dross on offer in the 1st division wouldn't interest me either.

Of course it won't be a region, but a decent developing ground for some Welsh talent until they reach Pro12 Standard.

Of course it won't be a region, but a decent developing ground for some Welsh talent until they reach Pro12 Standard..

Why would Welsh players come to play in England - is that not what the Welsh Clubs are for?

Of course it won't be a region, but a decent developing ground for some Welsh talent until they reach Pro12 Standard.

If the players aren't PRO12 standard then London Welsh will be relegated pretty quickly. Remember the Ospreys (the best Welsh team in the PRO12) were beaten home and away by Sarries in the HEC. If they players aren't good enough to challenge for a place in that Ospreys squad (and I mean there squad and not starting 23) then they'll be slaughtered by the majority of teams in the AP.

Personally I'm loathe to see another London based team (even if they do move to Oxford) come into the AP. Come on the Pirates! That way there's the excellent option for a holiday in Cornwall and catch a game at the same time or Newcastle stay up and the north retains an AP team.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Of course it won't be a region, but a decent developing ground for some Welsh talent until they reach Pro12 Standard.

If the players aren't PRO12 standard then London Welsh will be relegated pretty quickly. Remember the Ospreys (the best Welsh team in the PRO12) were beaten home and away by Sarries in the HEC.

Yeah but Saints were beaten by a bonus point in Northampton by the Scarlets, who are not the top welsh region,

Being serious some welsh players would benefit from spending time in the Jeff, the same as some English players would probably benefit from playing in the Rabo. Ben Morgan is a good example, he learnt to play a bit more of an open attacking minded game at the Scarlets because we just don't have forwards. And the other way around Dom Day will probably improve at Bath, as he will be involved in a lot more of the tight physical matches.

Portnoy, it's the RFU, not PRL, that will make the decision and it's now Wednesday, apparently:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/may/21/london-welsh-rfu-bid-premiership

Yeah but Saints were beaten by a bonus point in Northampton by the Scarlets, who are not the top welsh region,

Being serious some welsh players would benefit from spending time in the Jeff, the same as some English players would probably benefit from playing in the Rabo. Ben Morgan is a good example, he learnt to play a bit more of an open attacking minded game at the Scarlets because we just don't have forwards. And the other way around Dom Day will probably improve at Bath, as he will be involved in a lot more of the tight physical matches.

I wasn't knocking the Rabo but what I was saying was that if the players that are going to London Welsh are going there because they can't get a contract at one of the four regions then LW are going to struggle big time. If the Craig Mitchell style players who have a cap or two but want to improve their game in other ways come over then that's different but the original assumption that players not good for the Rabo would come over and use the AP as a training league is a bit hopeful to say the least.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Yeah but Saints were beaten by a bonus point in Northampton by the Scarlets, who are not the top welsh region,

Being serious some welsh players would benefit from spending time in the Jeff, the same as some English players would probably benefit from playing in the Rabo. Ben Morgan is a good example, he learnt to play a bit more of an open attacking minded game at the Scarlets because we just don't have forwards. And the other way around Dom Day will probably improve at Bath, as he will be involved in a lot more of the tight physical matches.

I wasn't knocking the Rabo but what I was saying was that if the players that are going to London Welsh are going there because they can't get a contract at one of the four regions then LW are going to struggle big time. If the Craig Mitchell style players who have a cap or two but want to improve their game in other ways come over then that's different but the original assumption that players not good for the Rabo would come over and use the AP as a training league is a bit hopeful to say the least.

Tbh i've been very surprised that the Welsh regions haven't used London Welsh to loan players in the past, especially young props (Scott Andrews comes to mind). Surely giving youngster experience in the fully professional Championship compared to the semi-pro/amateur Welsh Prem is much more valuable.

Considering the Champ sides are allowed 6 loaned/dual registered players per season that would have been sensible gowales. It might have undermined the relationship between the Welsh Prem clubs and the Regions though as well as forcing the players to travel further for games and training. Having said that a lot of the AP teams have an agreement in place with a Championship team so if it had been arranged it could have been very beneficial. Dan Cole cited his year on loan at Nottingham as very influencial in his development.

I think London Welsh already have agreements in place don't they? I know Bath academy players have gone there in the past, Wasps too.

I dont know if they would be allowed to become a Welsh development club though, I think much like London Irish, the amateur sides have a Welsh tinge, but the 1st team has lost that in many ways.

On another note, I was looking forward to going down to watch the 2nd leg of the play off, its a shame Quins wouldnt loan them their ground so the local fans could come.

On another note, I was looking forward to going down to watch the 2nd leg of the play off, its a shame Quins wouldnt loan them their ground so the local fans could come..

I think everybody has a gut feeling that if LW win and are denied promotion their owner is the stroppy type that will kick up a right commotion, so Quins are just putting a bit of distance between themselves and a possible Blazers Bun Fight.


Don't blame them.

I dont blame them really TrailApe, I was just looking forward to a bit of midweek rugby!

Quins have also been working very hard to increase their fan base, which they have done very well. So they are unlikely to want to help out a rival club who are based about a mile down the road I would think?

It wont matter...we arent going down...our old boss Mr Andrew will see to that

I really, really hope Welsh dont end up in Oxford. I love my days out at the Old Deer Park.

I'd love to see London Welsh in the Premiership, their a famous club who would add a lot of prestige to the league and generate a lot of welsh interest in the competition, if they do get promotion i would probably get sky just to see them next season.

AlynDavies wrote:I'd love to see London Welsh in the Premiership, their a famous club who
would add a lot of prestige to the league and generate a lot of welsh interest in the competition, if they do get promotion i would probably get sky just to see them next season.

AD, can you explain why you think that a bit more?

I'd recommend getting ESPN if you want to see premiership. It's keeping and they have two games a week rather than one. However the Premiership website generally has the games up after they've been played. In full and highlights. I hope that continues

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:I'd love to see London Welsh in the Premiership, their a famous club who
would add a lot of prestige to the league and generate a lot of welsh interest in the competition, if they do get promotion i would probably get sky just to see them next season.

AD, can you explain why you think that a bit more?

Well I'm speaking from a Welsh perspective of course but the London Welsh roll of honour reads like a who's who of Welsh rugby. I think most Welsh fans want London Welsh to do well and we'd be interested in supporting them. I think it would be beneficial because it would generate interest in the Aviva here.

Well it's not beneficial to us then is it Al.

Morgannwg wrote:Well it's not beneficial to us then is it Al.

Well it might be a distraction from the Rabo direct

Oxford Welsh wrote:Things will be different when it's premier and possibly Euro rugby on offer. The dross on offer in the 1st division wouldn't interest me either.

Of course it won't be a region, but a decent developing ground for some Welsh talent until they reach Pro12 Standard.

Funny that , i thought thats what England did with Morgan
.

Ospreydragon wrote:Portnoy, I'm sure you are aware of London Welsh's history re: Welsh players. They have Welsh-qualified players in their ranks and a Welsh coach. Hence my interest.

True but you wouldnt catch me supporting Wales just because they have English players and an English coach on the team.


ive no problem with London Welsh being in the Premiership, we already have London Irish and London South Africa there. And joking aside yes it will bring more interest in from a Welsh public either disenfranchised from or disinterested in their own top flight club game. But they should be held to the same criteria for promotion as other clubs, and safeguards put in place to ensure they are making investments required for long term sustainability. The few viable Premiership clubs are already sustaining a big flotilla of deadwood, and keeping a restrictive cap in place to keep them competitive.
PRL get a bad rap as bullies in this, but its them that have stood up and blocked RFU plans to reduce the size of the Premiership and quite possibly even ring fence and franchise it.

Also is it great for the Premiership to have two clubs located so close together?

Actually maybe someone should set up "Leicester Samoans", get the Tuillagi family on board theres enough of them to form a core squad and youth team. Alice will have a lot of spare yen in a couple of years to invest and Tigers could spare 10,000 of their supporters to get it going.

EngInAuck wrote:

Oxford Welsh wrote:Things will be different when it's premier and possibly Euro rugby on offer. The dross on offer in the 1st division wouldn't interest me either.

Of course it won't be a region, but a decent developing ground for some Welsh talent until they reach Pro12 Standard.

Funny that , i thought thats what England did with Morgan
.

Lets be honest I doubt he would have even have gotten capped if it wasn't for the fuss the welsh public/press made about him. It will be interesting to see how he gets on in the Jeff next season. Like I said in a previous post different leagues and different playing styles/attitudes.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler, I wouldn't confuse "support" with interest, and a general interest in rugby outside Welsh rugby. I do not "support" London Welsh.

So Falcons are safe! No relegation, what a farce!

Just to fill in http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/story/164479.html

You got a link HKC? Can't see it on the Beeb.

Scratch that, cheers Portnoy.

HongKongCherry wrote:So Falcons are safe! No relegation, what a farce!

So does that mean the Jeff doesn't have relegation? That shoots down the 'we need to fight to survive in the league so sacrifice the HEC' arguements Wouldn't it make more sense to have Newcastle have a playoff against Bristol to see who plays in the Jeff next season, seeing as they both match the required criteria?

YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


Rugby in the North East lives on!

Unfortunately Secret no one could mitigate for the fact that Brizzle are shoite at knock out rugby! Maybe they should've sorted a ground share with the eventual play off winner?

"The independent auditors identified various failures, including not having Primacy of Tenure at their nominated ground. This states that a club must demonstrate that they can host home fixtures at the time stipulated by Premiership Rugby and/or the host broadcaster."

So its all about Telly and the £££££ it brings.


And don't go all high and mighty ScarletSpiderman, this is only the second time it has happened, if the LW administration had got their ducks lined up a lot earlier they might have had a better chance at negotiating all of this.

The LW chairman has something to do with Scarlets hasn't he - mebbes this is all about poking the RFU and disturbing their port and cigars session.

The highest qualified side should get promoted.

Yet I would be surprised if London Irish, Saracens and Wasps have primacy of tenure at the football grounds they play in. In fact I know that we don't, which was why we played Leinster in a half empty Twickenham in the Heineken Cup a couple of years back due to it clashing with and FA Cup weekend.

I would suggest that if primacy of tenure is the only issue then Welsh may have strong grounds for an appeal given the above.

Congrats Falcons - delighted for the many excellent Falcons fans on here; commiserations London Welsh

Portnoy wrote:The highest qualified side should get promoted.

But surely youd argue thats the side that finished to pp of the league not the one who gets in by the back door via a convoluted playoff system...or have you changed your mind on that at last?

TrailApe wrote:

"The independent auditors identified various failures, including not having Primacy of Tenure at their nominated ground. This states that a club must demonstrate that they can host home fixtures at the time stipulated by Premiership Rugby and/or the host broadcaster."

So its all about Telly and the £££££ it brings.

Given theyd be relying on that cash to pay their players its not unreasonable is it?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Portnoy wrote:The highest qualified side should get promoted.

But surely youd argue thats the side that finished to pp of the league not the one who gets in by the back door via a convoluted playoff system...or have you changed your mind on that at last?

I have been fairly careful to stay reasonably balanced on the fence regarding Championship playoffs PSW.

Clearly my view is that generally a season of unencumbered league matches should decide the winner.

I feel that the H&S'n'stuff regarding promotion is valid but a way smaller ground capacity requirement is in order and a temporary ring fence for newly-promoted sides who more than match their promises.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the LW chancers who (unlike the Pirates) claimed a Jeff spot even though they never had anything substantial to base it on.

TrailApe wrote:And don't go all high and mighty ScarletSpiderman

Woah there betsy! Portnoy has pretty much said the same thing as I did along the lines of the best qualified team should get promoted, or lowest Jeff V highest qualified championship as I suggested, nothing high or mighty there.

ScarletSpiderman

My accusation of High and Mightyness humbly withdrawn.

In a sudden burst burst of activity, LW leap into action http://www.london-welsh.co.uk/rugby_newsroom_article.asp?id=1176

dated 11/05/12. Is that Neil Kinnock's smug grin pasted on Bleddyn's face?

My guess that he's on to Wheeler Squealer/Toms' briefs as we speak.

If you want to claim benefits, best fill in the forms.

Good luck Pirates .