Springboks should field relatively young team vs the English.

It has been confirmed by Heyneke Meyer that Victor Matfield will not return to Springbok rugby, but might be involved as a line out advisor. After Fourie du Preez and Jaque Fourie who both play rugby in Japan have confirmed they will not be available, and considering Juan Smit, Schalk Burger are both injured, and John Smit retired alongside Gurthro Steenkamp, Bakkies Botha and Danie Rossouw, that means nine regulars are not available for the English test series.

Out.

John Smit - retired
Bakkies Botha - France
Vicki Matfield - Retired
Fourie du Preez - Retired
Jaque Fourie - Japan, might as well be retired from international rugby.
Juan Smit - long term injury
Schalk Buger - long term injury (might be available for Four nations)
Gurthro Steenkamp - retired
Danie Rossouw - Retired


Now we just need to get rid of Morne.

To me Fourie, Burger and Smit are the biggest losses and really more so the first two as Smit (I thought it was Smith) was so frequently injured that the Boks have learned how to play without him.

That is a serious loss of leadership and experience but England are a very good example of a team that rewarded form and youthful exuberance over past reliability and experience. SA have abundant talent at their disposal and some exciting options to consider without compromising their traditional strengths. It's the right move by Meyer but like you say the spot on move would be to put M Steyn on the bench at least and give somebody a chance to give SA more variety and pace on attack in particular.

didn't realise du Preez had retired...?! Blimey. I always liked him as a player.

Should be a very interesting test series, looking forward to it a lot. Both fielding young teams and hopefully the games will be great, flowing-rugby entertainment.

Biltong, out of interest, do you think Juan Smith will play for the Boks again? He's been really struggling with injuries, and must be 32 now?

bluestonevedder.

sadly no, I doubt if he ever will, and even if he does, it will be his swan song.

When you consider our depth (and I mean we could make up a springbok side just our of loose forwards), being 30 years old on a comeback next year the competition will just be too much.

It is sad that this is the case, he has always been the springbok I rated highest, and I have the utmost respect for him as a human being and a player.

To me Juan Smith is like Dan Carter but with even more horrendous luck with injuries. He means as much to the Bok team in form as Carter does to the ABs and his absence is as keenly felt. Such horrible luck to such a nice guy.

True Kia, Habana got rugby player of the year in 2007, courtesy of his tries, Juan smith for me was the catalyst that won us that world cup. In fact if I recall correctly he scored 3 tries himself during that world cup.

It's tragic that his name might not go down as a Bok great in the future simply because he has had so many prolonged absences from the game.

Very sad Biltong. He is a fantastic player, and I always loved watching in. Had a great knack of putting in those huge hits, but combining physicality with great speed and a deft touch.

Saying that, your backrow depth is very impressive, and I should imagine you'll unearth some monster of a player to replace him in a few years.

In fact, my apologies, he scored 4 tries in that world cup, England, USA, Fiji, and tonga.

Bluestone, there are some promising ones on the horison, I'm sure we'll see one or two new faces this June.

Biltong, do you think the team will look something like this then?

Mtawarira
Bismark
Jannie
Bekker
Etzebeth/Kruger
Brussow
Alberts
Spies

Hougaard
Morne Steyn
Habana
Frans Steyn
De Jongh
JP Pieterson
Lambie

Think Alberts is injured zander

Zander wrote:Biltong, do you think the team will look something like this then?

Mtawarira
Bismark
Jannie
Bekker
Etzebeth/Kruger
Brussow
Alberts
Spies

Hougaard
Morne Steyn
Habana
Frans Steyn
De Jongh
JP Pieterson
Lambie

Who is the captian there, I think JDV is going to play. Also Stander or Kolisi will play in place of Alberts. And Coenie might play ahead of Jannie.

Zander wrote:Biltong, do you think the team will look something like this then?

Mtawarira
Bismark
Jannie
Bekker
Etzebeth/Kruger
Brussow
Alberts
Spies

Hougaard
Morne Steyn
Habana
Frans Steyn
De Jongh
JP Pieterson
Lambie

pretty close Zander, blue stone , Albert's actually played last weekend so he is a possibility.

Coenie is a loosehesd, Jannie is a tighthead, Coenie has a good chance to make the nench.

Meyer was impressed with JdV so might be his captain.

Kolisi is in his first season of Super rugby, no chance he'll be there

@Zander i think you might be very spot on . @biltong du preez looking like hes going to be on the bench he made himself available

biltongbek wrote:Coenie is a loosehesd, Jannie is a tighthead, Coenie has a good chance to make the nench.

Meyer was impressed with JdV so might be his captain.

Kolisi is in his first season of Super rugby, no chance he'll be there

Sorry about the mistakes, but Meyer is known to use young players.

This is how the fan's choice looks like:

http://www.rugby15.co.za/2012/05/rugby15s-fans-choice-bok-team-revealed/

After he said he is not. Geez can't the guy just carry on with his life now.

Great news if Alberts is back. Heck of a ball carrier.

Eben Etzebeth is a big lad, looking forward to seeing him play- heard good things. I'm starting to think that England's lock options are very lightweight compared to the Boks'.

biltongbek wrote:After he said he is not. Geez can't the guy just carry on with his life now.

I think Hougaard is a much better option at 9 for South Africa than Du Preez. His form has been poor for a while and he shouldn't be anywhere near a Springbok jersey!

Don't like their selection too much Fern.

Bass on and Aplon over Habana and JP Pietersen is just daft.

Kolisi too inexperienced, Coenie has never scrummed at tighthead

bluestone,

I agree, I was surprised when Lancaster named his squad that neither Attwood nor Garvey were in there. They both very much fill the enforcer role and Garvey is about 122 kg! So he would add a certain bulk to our lightweight second row.

bluestonevedder wrote:Great news if Alberts is back. Heck of a ball carrier.

Eben Etzebeth is a big lad, looking forward to seeing him play- heard good things. I'm starting to think that England's lock options are very lightweight compared to the Boks'.

Blue stone, when you look at the most likely tight five, Beast, Bismarck, Jannie, Etzebeth, Bekker they are very, very mobile, in fact anyone of them a good ball carrier, pilferer and defender.

biltongbek wrote:Don't like their selection too much Fern.

Bass on and Aplon over Habana and JP Pietersen is just daft.

Kolisi too inexperienced, Coenie has never scrummed at tighthead

I'd take aplon and mvovo over habana and pietersen . Habana is done and Pietersen has been outshone by mvovo this season ,moving him to center hasnt worked

Exactly Zander, I was hoping at least one of them would make it. Just hoping that it doesn't affect our scrums too much through lack of weight!

Zander wrote:

biltongbek wrote:After he said he is not. Geez can't the guy just carry on with his life now.

I think Hougaard is a much better option at 9 for South Africa than Du Preez. His form has been poor for a while and he shouldn't be anywhere near a Springbok jersey!

I fully agree with you

biltongbek wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:Great news if Alberts is back. Heck of a ball carrier.

Eben Etzebeth is a big lad, looking forward to seeing him play- heard good things. I'm starting to think that England's lock options are very lightweight compared to the Boks'.

Blue stone, when you look at the most likely tight five, Beast, Bismarck, Jannie, Etzebeth, Bekker they are very, very mobile, in fact anyone of them a good ball carrier, pilferer and defender.

Have to admit Biltong, I rarely get to see much Super15 action, so am not too familiar with all player's attributes. From what I have seen of Alberts though, he's a real threat with ball in hand, and I've been really impressed. Like I said, haven't seen anything of Eben Etzebeth but hear he's physical, so am looking forward to seeing what he brings to the table.

The problem with the above sides is that whilst promising it lacks leadership. Yes there are leaders in there like Bismaarck & Spies but the backs are particularly vunerable.

JDV will play as OC and probably be either Captain or Vice-Captain to Bismaarck or Spies.

I don’t think Beast will play either… more like Coenie or Kruger as Beast has been coming back from injury and I believe Meyer will want to see more from him on the set piece.

Juandre Kruger is not setting the world on fire after his initial promise and is being ‘rotated’ for the big match vs. the Chiefs.
More likely Meyer will play Flip and Bekker together with Etzebeth on the bench.

I’d say Meyer will choose

Oosthuizen, Bismaarck, Jannie, Flip, Bekker, Stander, Brussow, Spies (C), Hougaard, M. Steyn ,Habana, F. Steyn, JDV, Ndugane, Lambie.

For the bench I’d say he’ll choose

Kruger, Strauss, Etzebeth, Daniel, Duvenage, De Jongh, Aplon.

Ndugane is a little more physical then Aplon and surprisingly playing well. Daniel is having a good season and deserves a call up. I have often seen him as a journeyman but he does a lot of good work in terms of retention.
Etzebeth is a little too light for test rugby at the moment... if you watch the stormers closely they tend to double up behind him so that when he carries, he doesn't get dumped like many lanky players do.

The above pack will stand solid to a good ENG scrum and lineout and won’t be providing Morne backfoot ball.
The only issue is how this will help Meyer build his side for the 4N???

Flip, Stander, JDV etc are players of potential weakness in terms of test rugby. Something a better side will exploit.

Spies certainly has to crank up his test play… its no good being half decent… he needs to put in captains performances, be a big ball carrier up front… not just his standard Spies on the flanks which is what he is accustom to do.
Personally I think AUS is the team to beat this year… they have a good side, little changes to personnel and all their marquee players are coming back into contention. For SA to beat AUS over 2 legs they will need to sort out their issues at centre.

Bullsbok wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Don't like their selection too much Fern.

Bass on and Aplon over Habana and JP Pietersen is just daft.

Kolisi too inexperienced, Coenie has never scrummed at tighthead

I'd take aplon and mvovo over habana and pietersen . Habana is done and Pietersen has been outshone by mvovo this season ,moving him to center hasnt worked

Mvovo has speed, Aplon is an impact player.

jP Pietersen looks for work, he has defensive technique and great distribution, Habana idps gaining form again and defensively sound, you just need to look at his work rate. besides Pietersen is younger than all of them

biltongbek wrote:

Zander wrote:

biltongbek wrote:After he said he is not. Geez can't the guy just carry on with his life now.

I think Hougaard is a much better option at 9 for South Africa than Du Preez. His form has been poor for a while and he shouldn't be anywhere near a Springbok jersey!

I fully agree with you

Now i want hougaard at 9 as much as everybody else but to say Du preez current form is poor is just presumptuous dont you think . i can guarantee non of you have watched him play in japan you're all assuming just because its an inferior league he wont be any use to the Springboks. You'd think because of the faster game that side ,Du preez would have speeded up his game learned a few things which might prove useful but noooo the springbok fan knows whats best.......

Pietersen is a little off form however. He needs to get back to scoring tries.

Mvovo and Basson are fighting Habana... a difficult task.

Aplon.... always difficult to see him start for obvious reasons. Ndugane IMO deserves another shot.

Coenie has discipline problems and at best will fill the bench, Kruger is a tighthead

Yeah you're right on Kruger... meant Greyling.. always mix those up... I think one of those 2 Greyling or Kruger will fill bench spot.

Bullsbok wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

Zander wrote:

biltongbek wrote:After he said he is not. Geez can't the guy just carry on with his life now.

I think Hougaard is a much better option at 9 for South Africa than Du Preez. His form has been poor for a while and he shouldn't be anywhere near a Springbok jersey!

I fully agree with you

Now i want hougaard at 9 as much as everybody else but to say Du preez current form is poor is just presumptuous dont you think . i can guarantee non of you have watched him play in japan you're all assuming just because its an inferior league he wont be any use to the Springboks. You'd think because of the faster game that side ,Du preez would have speeded up his game learned a few things which might prove useful but noooo the springbok fan knows whats best.......

Bullsbok, I know you are a du Preez supporter, You can't look at Japan and tell me he is in form, against what do you compare it?

When was the last time du Preez did anything unprdictable?

Compare that to Hougaard

biltongbek wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Don't like their selection too much Fern.

Bass on and Aplon over Habana and JP Pietersen is just daft.

Kolisi too inexperienced, Coenie has never scrummed at tighthead

I'd take aplon and mvovo over habana and pietersen . Habana is done and Pietersen has been outshone by mvovo this season ,moving him to center hasnt worked

Mvovo has speed, Aplon is an impact player.

jP Pietersen looks for work, he has defensive technique and great distribution, Habana idps gaining form again and defensively sound, you just need to look at his work rate. besides Pietersen is younger than all of them

Considering how much you dislike the kick and chase tactics of im suprised you're backing two wingers who've been central to it for the last 4 years. i can tell from your reply,"defensive technique ,great distribution ,defensively sound " . Theres nothing in there about elusive running, game breaker - some of the qualities you'd expect in your wings

fa0019 wrote:Pietersen is a little off form however. He needs to get back to scoring tries.

Mvovo and Basson are fighting Habana... a difficult task.

Aplon.... always difficult to see him start for obvious reasons. Ndugane IMO deserves another shot.

did you not see his try on the left wing last weekend?

Did you not see how he was all over the place securing ball, making tackles and looking for work?

I can't see Meyer choosing Beast though at loosehead. ENG have a good front row and SA know this. Jannie is not the strongest scrummager and has no competition to push him. They need to have stability at prop.

SA will want to combat Cole with someone they know won't blink an eyelid. Coenie is the man in my view.
I know people said the same about beast in 09 but unlike the lions the ENG front 3 are very strong unlike Lee 'I should be playing 7s' Mears and Vickery (was well past it by 09).

Biltong , im not saying Du Preez should start hell no , im saying it wouldnt be a bad shout to have him on the bench at least for the june series.Hougaard at 9 for 60 min then shift him to wing like the bulls do and bring on Fourie to close out the game

Bullsbok wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Don't like their selection too much Fern.

Bass on and Aplon over Habana and JP Pietersen is just daft.

Kolisi too inexperienced, Coenie has never scrummed at tighthead

I'd take aplon and mvovo over habana and pietersen . Habana is done and Pietersen has been outshone by mvovo this season ,moving him to center hasnt worked

Mvovo has speed, Aplon is an impact player.

jP Pietersen looks for work, he has defensive technique and great distribution, Habana idps gaining form again and defensively sound, you just need to look at his work rate. besides Pietersen is younger than all of them

Considering how much you dislike the kick and chase tactics of im suprised you're backing two wingers who've been central to it for the last 4 years. i can tell from your reply,"defensive technique ,great distribution ,defensively sound " . Theres nothing in there about elusive running, game breaker - some of the qualities you'd expect in your wings

How do you expect any wing to do anything but chase when that is all your 9 and 10 does?

Give these guys the opportunity to play rugby before you put a runner and a jinker on

BB

For me JP is the man... an awesome talent and probably the smartest back for the boks over the last five years but he has been misused a little and needs to find some consistent form. He's always been played as right wing is a little weak for SA..... he needs a kick up the backside.

Bullsbok wrote:Biltong , im not saying Du Preez should start hell no , im saying it wouldnt be a bad shout to have him on the bench at least for the june series.Hougaard at 9 for 60 min then shift him to wing like the bulls do and bring on Fourie to close out the game

I can accept that

biltongbek wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Pietersen is a little off form however. He needs to get back to scoring tries.

Mvovo and Basson are fighting Habana... a difficult task.

Aplon.... always difficult to see him start for obvious reasons. Ndugane IMO deserves another shot.

did you not see his try on the left wing last weekend?

Did you not see how he was all over the place securing ball, making tackles and looking for work?

Lol did u see the try right after that ? The mvovo inspired one ? Sidestepped his way from the touchline through 5 defenders and got tackled on the 5m and eventually someone sniped over? All im saying is for years we've relied on the pace of habana and the solidity of pietersen . Teams are used to them now , all they have to do is cover the gaps and those two are done. Aplon and Mvovo can step their way through the line something habana is not known for neither is pietersen.

Habana and Pietersen are solid... Mvovo & Aplon are a slight risk. ENG don't have a backline bang on form though... they won't need magic but you're right that it may hurt them further down the line.

Bullsbok wrote:Biltong , im not saying Du Preez should start hell no , im saying it wouldnt be a bad shout to have him on the bench at least for the june series.Hougaard at 9 for 60 min then shift him to wing like the bulls do and bring on Fourie to close out the game

Has du Preez played since the Japanese season finished in Feb? I'd be nervous about match fitness if not.

You can have Mvovo, I love him as a player but I love Pietersen more.

in fact I won't mind Pietersen at 14 and Mvovo at 11

fa0019 wrote:I can't see Meyer choosing Beast though at loosehead. ENG have a good front row and SA know this. Jannie is not the strongest scrummager and has no competition to push him. They need to have stability at prop.

SA will want to combat Cole with someone they know won't blink an eyelid. Coenie is the man in my view.
I know people said the same about beast in 09 but unlike the lions the ENG front 3 are very strong unlike Lee 'I should be playing 7s' Mears and Vickery (was well past it by 09).

I agree, one of England's strong points is their front row. Cole is well beyond his years in scrummaging, Hartley is a solid scrummager and Corbisiero always scrummages well.

Considering Cole is such a good scrummager, I think Hartley will push more on Corbisiero's side to help him get the better of Jannie Du Plessis, who i've heard isn't the greatest scrummager in the world.

Tight head is our biggest concern and has been for some time however even with Jannie our Scrum isn't that weak.

kruger would most likely be his back up

Jannie is just a bit complacent... all great players need competition for their places to improve them.

I think Jannie needs to lose a little weight and get a tougher edge like his bro. Then again he does still have a full time job right so its more difficult for him??? Is he still working as a hospital doctor? Absolute legend.

I think he and Bismarck is more involved with their farm than him doctoring anymore

Ironic that he's a doctor in the first place... given he's just as likely to put guys in hospital then to treat their illnesses.

Then again after seeing his slap earlier in the season I think he needs a lesson in confrontation... my vrou hits harder that that! She is a boer afterall.