If Wales Not Thrashing Barbarians

Will this be indicator of Wales have less depth than England?

England were destroy the Barbarians team last week with second strength side. Wales also name a less strength side with most first choosing combinator getting ready to flying. If Wales don't matching this job then will mean Welsh rugby is weaker? or mean the Barbarians coaching more and drink less beer?

Will it mean select Martin Williams despite him not being able to spell his own name is an insult to all the young welshmen who would rather play for scotland anyway?

PSW, you are top form so early. What you eating for breakfast?

Because is a tradition for naming an uncapped player in the team, I am interested in if can Shingler play for the Barbarians, or Wales blocking that move?

Why would Wales need to block him from playing for the Barbarians ?

I just realised I wrote the first half of that in the style of you ,l obviously got up too quickly.
A cup of tea and some welsh rarebait.

Shingler shouldve been picked for the Baabaas, they usually pick someone controversial to get under the England coaches noses ( Cirpriani, Tindall etc).

These games shouldn't be full cap internationals though, its an absolute joke. Picking Williams purely to give him a 100th cap devalues the whole system. A shame they havent made this yet another Shane final cap game really, then he could massage up his scoring figures with even more soft tries.

Are you suggesting all Shane Williams tries have been soft?

I don't know if Wales will even beat the Baa baas. I don't think there is a system to devalue. I'm pretty sure a union can choose to cap whomever they wish.

The only salient point is about Shingler. Yes he should be selected for the Barbarians, just to see how he gets on at this level. He's definitely good enough...

No I just posted that to wind people up tp be honest, although he has scored a lot against weak opposition but we are only allowed to mention chris ashton.

International caps are supposed to mean something. Sure they can be given out free with cornflakes if a union wants to but that destroys the whole point of them. being given one used to genuinly mean something, now some are worth more than others (like shane/ashton tries). Theres a campaign going with older players demanding to have games played against Argentina upgraded to full cap internationals, you can understand why they feel insulted to see cashcow games like this treated as full caps when the WRU wont recognise their games played for a proper welsh side against proper international sides.

Do the player really caring about it? I know Mils Muliaina said that he thinking his 100 cap drama was a bit emabarrasment and make a problem for the team at important time that he didn't even care about and was distraction from the rugby. He just want to play the game like normal game and make good form and not interested in some presentation on full time and some TV spectatorcle. Just wanted it be finish with.

If you play on top form and selected 99 times and make a contributor for your country. Then is celebrate your carreer by playing soft unimportant game is the wrong game for celebrate.

My mind is MW case detract from achievement and from other play who achieve 100 by real selection.

This is just nitpicking. Players who have reached the 100 mark have not always played against top sides

Cymroglan wrote:This is just nitpicking. Players who have reached the 100 mark have not always played against top sides

But mid career you wouldnt select a player on the bench simply to make sure he didnt get stranded on 99 caps when already having been selected for several games when past his sell by date.

It devalues this game and shows how seriously Wales are taking it, and it devalues the moment for Williams himself.....although its nice he does get to have a proper home send off he couldve had that lining up for the barbarians like world cup winning Tindall had to settle for.

What tense are you using?

And of course is seriously bad for him if Wales losing. Home humiliation following England top performance and Ashton hat-trick will be remining him of final loss with no chance to make another game and redeeming himself.

Most babaas games these days are b teams v b-grade has-beens, aren't they? They are what they are, and you'd be doing well to devalue one by giving a guy on 99 one more cap.

Is not devalue the game, but the player carrerr is the point.

Peter yes it was great to see Tindall have a runout it must have been a fantastic feeling for him playing with some of the greats of the game.

anotherworldofpain
Why would it be seriously be bad for Martin if Wales lost ?

Barbarians performances are such a lottery these days that it won't mean much if Wales don't thrash them, though I think it's pretty clear that England do have more depth, just purely through number of guys playing in the top flight as much as anything.

Agree that this shouldn't be a capped game. I'd always thought the whole point of caps to be that it was for test matches, and it would surely be preferable if all teams used the same system for awarding them.

On the barbarians selecting tindall, cipriani etc. I'd imagine it's more about ticket sales than about winding up the England coaches.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:No I just posted that to wind people up tp be honest, although he has scored a lot against weak opposition but we are only allowed to mention chris ashton.

International caps are supposed to mean something. Sure they can be given out free with cornflakes if a union wants to but that destroys the whole point of them. being given one used to genuinly mean something, now some are worth more than others (like shane/ashton tries). Theres a campaign going with older players demanding to have games played against Argentina upgraded to full cap internationals, you can understand why they feel insulted to see cashcow games like this treated as full caps when the WRU wont recognise their games played for a proper welsh side against proper international sides.

Well yes but you can't play all your games against top teams. He has also scored some pretty decent tries against France and SA. Not to mention important ones against England...Anyway...

I don't really disagree with you in general with regards handing out caps but the sentemental side of me is happy to see Martyn get his 100 without having to play him against serious opposition. I don't really think it's worth getting worked up about and whoever this pretend foriegner is (worldofHERSH) should understand that two teams playing the same opposition can't really be compared. Is it even the same Barbarians team that Wales willl be playing?

anotherworldofpain wrote:Will this be indicator of Wales have less depth than England?

England were destroy the Barbarians team last week with second strength side. Wales also name a less strength side with most first choosing combinator getting ready to flying. If Wales don't matching this job then will mean Welsh rugby is weaker? or mean the Barbarians coaching more and drink less beer?

I think England had 8-9 of their first team v the Baa Baas - Wales might have 2 I think - so not really a strength in depth contest. Hopefully Wales won't leak 4 trys against a bunch of misfits

Ireland didn't beat them, so should they be embaraased ? In my opinion, a big fat NO !!!!!!!! These realy are nothing games so why are you even bothering ?

Caps against the Barbarians are a farce - might as well give caps for the matches against the club teams during the summer tours.

A cap should be only against a registered International side

It'll be a Wales B team, so who cares about the result. It should be about testing out new guys ..

BoyneRFC wrote:It'll be a Wales B team, so who cares about the result. It should be about testing out new guys ..

+1

.....unless you are DK, then, why not wheel ROG on for the craic !!

Who cares about the result. It should be about testing out new guys ..

Barbarians performances are such a lottery these days that it won't mean much if Wales don't thrash them

Are this "getting-in-early" excuses? You really don't have the competitive spirit that makes you thinking "I want to win more than England and make the statement!" ??

Right I have had a ***full of this ? AWP what are your motives with this ? I really started to believe you about your foreign plight, but you are now just trolling. You have to realise by making antagonistic posts you are going to make more people think your are a phoney. So please, just so we can all understand where you are comming from, can you please answer these few questions so we can all make our own minds up ?

What is your nationality ?
How long have you been here(U.K) ?
What are you here for ?
How long have you supported rugby and who do you follow ?
What nation do you support ?
What was the nearest club team you had in the area you grew up in ?

Just to put a few of our minds at rest thats all.

BoyneRFC wrote:It'll be a Wales B team, so who cares about the result. It should be about testing out new guys ..

Which I assume is why they selected Martin Williams....



The results of these games are meaningless. Noone seriously thinks a midfield of Dickson, Hodgson, Barritt and a Wet Flannel is going to conjure up 50+ points in a proper game. Im sure there will be plenty of people harping on about it if Wales do come a cropper (or if they put 90 on the baas) but I really dont think its massively relevant.
As for depth yeah england have never been short of options. The idea that foriegn hordes are stopping the england team finding players simply is borne out when you have 100 EQ players starting each week in the Jeff. England can name a squad of 64 and still have people whinging their favourite is left out. The problems always been turning these guys into world class performers and keeping them fit. The quality of the firts and second choice players, and the cohesion of the team are far more important than the quality of the 4th choice players. Strength in depth seems to be a real buzz term with the welsh, understandable I guess given that at times they have been over reliant on a handfull of superstars ( not so much the case now) but they have been far more successful than england in converting promise from a more limited pool of pro players.

LD. I am apology that you finding "antagonistic" (nice word! I like this meaning!)

But is not about make you blood pressure going high! Is just about explore the competitive spirit! I am just asking the question: Do you watch in many minds about explore the new players but also have the feeling "It's nice to win by more than England!" and so saying we are best and more depth.

I don't think there is any wrong with that thinking! I know I am feel this way often about close competitor and often is the discussion outside the game about "My team beat the team you lost to so is better!" kind of discussion.

About your inquisition. I live already enough with the central adminstrative office asking for the papers. Here is free country! We can enjoy this without need to ask the questions. I alrady make the profile and explain enough times my life history thank you for you interest!

I think ENG probably had say 6 1st XV players going by who will probably start vs SA. They did field a stronger side than WAL are fielding. Should be no comparisons though... WAL shouldn't be looking at how ENG performed rather how they should use this match to begin their own tour.

It won't do the squad any favours in terms of morale if their second side can't polish off rag tag side of mainly 'past it' (with all respect) greats. Any side with well drilled set piece calls and defensive lines should beat a side thrown together 2 weeks prior regardless of the quality of the opposition. Get any more injuries in AUS and some of these guys could find themselves starting the tests.

The whole cap thing is a farce though.. devalues the shirt. Does 100 caps really mean that much to Williams???
If they were to hand out caps for this they should have played a near full strength team.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

Who cares about the result. It should be about testing out new guys ..

Barbarians performances are such a lottery these days that it won't mean much if Wales don't thrash them

Are this "getting-in-early" excuses? You really don't have the competitive spirit that makes you thinking "I want to win more than England and make the statement!" ??

I'm English.

England played a lot of first team players. (Ashton, Foden, Barrett, Farrell, Dowson, Botha, Stevens, Hartley)

Wales are playing 2 first team players. (AWJ and Ian Evans - and thats debatable)

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

BoyneRFC wrote:It'll be a Wales B team, so who cares about the result. It should be about testing out new guys ..

Which I assume is why they selected Martin Williams....



The results of these games are meaningless. Noone seriously thinks a midfield of Dickson, Hodgson, Barritt and a Wet Flannel is going to conjure up 50+ points in a proper game. Im sure there will be plenty of people harping on about it if Wales do come a cropper (or if they put 90 on the baas) but I really dont think its massively relevant.
As for depth yeah england have never been short of options. The idea that foriegn hordes are stopping the england team finding players simply is borne out when you have 100 EQ players starting each week in the Jeff. England can name a squad of 64 and still have people whinging their favourite is left out. The problems always been turning these guys into world class performers and keeping them fit. The quality of the firts and second choice players, and the cohesion of the team are far more important than the quality of the 4th choice players. Strength in depth seems to be a real buzz term with the welsh, understandable I guess given that at times they have been over reliant on a handfull of superstars ( not so much the case now) but they have been far more successful than england in converting promise from a more limited pool of pro players.

WUMMING Level :

Anotherworldofpain - Please try harder.

AWJ and Ian Evans are only playing against the Barbarians due to the fact that both will be flying out to Australia later than the rest of the squad.

Ian Evans is getting married and AWJ is attending his sisters wedding.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18259420

Dowson is not a first team player.. you have Croft, Wood, Robshaw, Haskell & Morgan all ahead of him...i.e. you would need 3 players to be injured for him to test.

Stevens is also not a first team player and hasn't been so for 4 years. He only gets on the subs bench because he can play on both sides (albeit badly).

I don't think anyone is debating that this WAL side was similar to that of ENG but 6 first choice players and some of the rest not either being second choice means that ENG were far away from being full strength.

It shouldn't matter anyhow, WAL should be concentrating on themselves rather than what ENG are doing.
Putting 60 points on that baa baas side was a decent result and will help the morale of the squad and some key players. They used the match well.

WAL need to do the same thing (i.e. decent morale boosting result). If they lose or perform badly it won't be a nothing result, it will matter.

If this inexperienced and cobbled together Wales side put in a poor performance it will only matter to some of the english on here - Simples really

RubyGuby wrote:If this inexperienced and cobbled together Wales side put in a poor performance it will only matter to some of the english on here - Simples really

anotherworldofpain wrote:LD. I am apology that you finding "antagonistic" (nice word! I like this meaning!)

But is not about make you blood pressure going high! Is just about explore the competitive spirit! I am just asking the question: Do you watch in many minds about explore the new players but also have the feeling "It's nice to win by more than England!" and so saying we are best and more depth.

I don't think there is any wrong with that thinking! I know I am feel this way often about close competitor and often is the discussion outside the game about "My team beat the team you lost to so is better!" kind of discussion.

About your inquisition. I live already enough with the central adminstrative office asking for the papers. Here is free country! We can enjoy this without need to ask the questions. I alrady make the profile and explain enough times my life history thank you for you interest!

Your skirting around the point, please can you just humor me and answer the questions I have asked of you, unless you want people to keep thinking that you are taking the mickey of us all on here, I am sorry but i for one will not be taken for an idiot, this thread is obviously a hook in which you want to bait the Welsh fans on here into a peeing contest with the English fans, and I will not fall for it.

Thats we are all quite capable of looking like idiots with Greyghosts help.

Ignoring the england v wales stoking though this does raise some important points regarding this game and juts how pointless it is, even more so that previous years.
Its not even like they need to make sure Scotland cant try and poach any of these guys.

Dowlais, you're being taken for an idiot by responding to Another Pain - Just leave him alone, at best he needs accomodating but why are you trying to reason with the unreasonable is a bit beyond me - When Wales do well these creatures seem to grow - its a bit like the plague, they have difficulty coping with it

Grey Ghost, I'm actually wondering if you bothered to watch any NH rugby this year, as against the Barbarians you would have seen a number of England 6 Nations starters. Another poor attempt at a WUM might I add. Leave the England v Wales threads to the English and Welsh .

Ruby, he has done another thread on here aswell where he sights the English might have a problem with Argentina because of the Falklands war. This is just doing my head in, just to put it politely and the MODS just cannot see it, or are to afraid to do anything just in case he is geniune, either way I need to find out.

LordDowlais wrote:Ruby, he has done another thread on here aswell where he sights the English might have a problem with Argentina because of the Falklands war. This is just doing my head in, just to put it politely and the MODS just cannot see it, or are to afraid to do anything just in case he is geniune, either way I need to find out.

As long as he doesn't start on Patagonia I dont mind

I have been there Ruby, I went when I was in school(god that was a long time ago), we were introducing our Welsh culture with our Welsh langauge.

I'm prepared to sign a petition to get the word combinator passed into the English lexicon.

I don't think AWOP the result or the manner of the result against the Barbarians is important. Indeed a loss might serve as a royal kick up the proverbial that Wales need to turn up against Australia in the right frame of mind. The Barbarians beat the ABs on their autumn tour the other year. I don't think too many tears were shed. It was quite a good Baabaa side. The real rugby sadly is what happens after this match.

Careful guys... he might be contacting advocado and sewing us!

LordDowlais wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:LD. I am apology that you finding "antagonistic" (nice word! I like this meaning!)

But is not about make you blood pressure going high! Is just about explore the competitive spirit! I am just asking the question: Do you watch in many minds about explore the new players but also have the feeling "It's nice to win by more than England!" and so saying we are best and more depth.

I don't think there is any wrong with that thinking! I know I am feel this way often about close competitor and often is the discussion outside the game about "My team beat the team you lost to so is better!" kind of discussion.

About your inquisition. I live already enough with the central adminstrative office asking for the papers. Here is free country! We can enjoy this without need to ask the questions. I alrady make the profile and explain enough times my life history thank you for you interest!

Your skirting around the point, please can you just humor me and answer the questions I have asked of you, unless you want people to keep thinking that you are taking the mickey of us all on here, I am sorry but i for one will not be taken for an idiot, this thread is obviously a hook in which you want to bait the Welsh fans on here into a peeing contest with the English fans, and I will not fall for it.

LD I find your reply quite offending now. I don't like the pressure to be repeating all the time personal informations which I already put on a lot of the other thread and to the "profile". Here I am not making the antagonising by intending but raising for discussion the point about sporting competitive nature to finding out if is just me that can find and read into some suttle inuendo in some game which might be said otherwise some pointless "fluff". It is really part of bigger discussion about is there a point to barbarians game and if the coach really learn anything by making the reserve combinator up against the other team. Can any real thing be learned? is just about entertainment? Is that after all the most important of thing about rugby? Do the player enjoy it? What do we as the fans think in the outcome?

Maybe you are not possible to discussing the point without making childish competing remarks. I am sorry to being sharp but maybe this issue is tight on the bone to you and make some issue for you where is not intended. In that case I apologise but must ask for moderator advise if the topic is acceptable and not too much controversy. Then if they agreeing maybe you might just comment in elsewhere places to avoid break the blood pressure.

So don't be gloomy and make the conspiracy and keep the tinfoil hat in the drawer my friend!

anotherworldofpain
How come your English improves when you respond in anger ?

Who is angry?

anotherworldofpain wrote:Who is angry?

Odd phrasing to use for a non-english speaker.

Please discussing the rugby and not pick on my english.