Wellington - 14th June 2003

A very special day for England rugby fans.

New Zealand 13 - 15 England

Which is an ironic score line when you consider we had 13 players and the mighty all blacks had 15!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/2982490.stm

Enjoy.

Happy days

10 years since England were competitive. Is there really any need to depress the English supporters?

I think I will post something from 1953..

2012 -2003 = 10

6 November 2010 Twickenham, London 16 – 26 New Zealand
21 November 2009 Twickenham, London 6 – 19 New Zealand
29 November 2008 Twickenham, London 6 – 32 New Zealand
21 June 2008 AMI Stadium, Christchurch 44– 12 New Zealand
14 June 2008 Eden Park, Auckland 37– 20 New Zealand
5 November 2006 Twickenham, London 20 – 41 New Zealand
19 November 2005 Twickenham, London 19 – 23 New Zealand 2005
19 June 2004 Eden Park, Auckland 36 – 12 New Zealand 2004
12 June 2004 Carisbrook, Dunedin 36 – 3 New Zealand

Results since that fateful day 9 years ago

Interesting to see the great Steve Borthwick was on the bench! Demonstrating that then, as now, we have no depth at lock!

Wellington, July 2000. What a weekend! Steinlager, 3NZ$ to the £....

Breadvan wrote: Wellington, July 2000. What a weekend! Steinlager, 3NZ$ to the £....

Nowadays it's $2NZ to the £. Which really sucks when sending £s home

or something from 1966:
'Help me Rhondda'

HERSH wrote:A very special day for England rugby fans.

New Zealand 13 - 15 England

Which is an ironic score line when you consider we had 13 players and the mighty all blacks had 15!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/2982490.stm

Enjoy.

Bit disappointing that you were a day out on the 9th anniversary

Yes,and had Andrew Merthens started at 10 for the full 8o mins England would have lost too!!! 2 wins in the Professional era ,6 total since 1905.THAT`s why there called THE Great AllBlacks.

We played dumb rugby that day....I recall sitting in my rugby club that morning (I'd only been here a year) expecting the AB's to roll these pretenders in white over, but it didn't happen.

England were defensively brilliant that day...did nothing with the ball (neither did we really) but they held us out.

I'm with Emack though, Spencer had a shocker that day. Had Merhtens been picked - which he should have - it would have been different I'm sure, but that's all history

I was at the game. Wilko gave Spencer a lesson in how to kick. Saw one effort change direction twice in the wind. Spencer missed four, and Caleb Ralph had his famous air kick. Plonker.

See you on here in ten years Hersh. You might beat us before then!

I wrote MIGHT.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

HERSH wrote:A very special day for England rugby fans.

New Zealand 13 - 15 England

Which is an ironic score line when you consider we had 13 players and the mighty all blacks had 15!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/international/2982490.stm

Enjoy.

Bit disappointing that you were a day out on the 9th anniversary

I know, but what the heck!

Did you watch the game hersh?
On a plate ,on a plate from the boot of Spencer.
Only got out of your own half three times by the hour mark, shocking from Dickson all round as well, a stronger ref would have carded even more players for such cynical play from England in there 22.

Anyways enjoy the moment because the score will stand forever and as my dad always told me ; its better to be a has been than to always be a nobody;

But your post does stink of desperation ,like Bridget Bardo getting out the photo album when she has young beautiful guests

Yet I recall one scrum in particular when England were down to 13 men which the All Blacks couldn't get even a shove on England. So not simply a bad day by Spencer. Right boys?

True Doc, but when Spencer had a bad day he affected the whole team. Think your lot exploited that quite often. Was a horrible performance all round. Nonu had his debut then, McCaw was shaded by Back and So'oialo had a mare. Then there was Ralph. Kudos to the Poms for a fantastic performance though. Was just a pity we weren't good enough to make the final later that year as I thought we learned how to play England from that.

Martin Johnson,and Neil Back committed a series of cynical acts,hence both being binned.The Scrum mentioned in the last few minutes,Carlos Spencer also
had a "Gimme" to equal the scores and missed it.Carlos Spencer was a very talented 10 but flawed.He would as likely create something out of nothing then do something really stiupid.John Mitchell [surprisingly] picked packs that were
lightweight by the best All Black standards.He had personal reasons for not picking Andrew Merthens and Christian Cullen .The Worlds best 7 Josh Kronfeld was playing his rugby abroad.Carlos was never better than a 50% Goal kicker at test level,Merts would have buried the chances spencer muffed.

I think we could fill multiple threads discussing Spencer. And other multiple threads about how and why Merthens was never really considered as good then (at least by his clubs and country) as we now do. Granted Spencer was never a great kicker, but that wasn't what you paid for when you put him out there. On the other hand I think he was one of the most creative and visionary out halves ever. Unfortunately for him (and his teams) at times no one else on the pitch saw the same things and that's where the errors came from. Merts was a different animal. More conventional, in my mind truly a great all around out half, but possible not the best any any individual skill.

Could Merts have changed that match? Well, he would have made those kicks. But did he have that weird brilliance that scared teams like that England team? Probably not. At that time, Spencer was the only 10 in the world whch made me nervous as an England supporter. And there were some pretty good 10s out there at that time.

A debate for the ages (and none of us will change each other's mind, but the fun is in the trying)..................

Behave yourselves. The ABs are usually brilliant, England rarely so. But in 2003 we were the best, beating everyone home and away, a GS, a RWC. It's a bit sad to hark back so many years, but everyone does it, so give us our moment of glory.

9 years and one day on and people are still bitter about it.

Brilliant

take your moment boys you ain't had one since

If I had to go back 9 years to find the last special rugby day I'd get the gun out.

Great display of running rugby by England, couldnt score a try.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
If I had to go back 9 years to find the last special rugby day I'd get the gun out.

Great display of running rugby by England, couldnt score a try.

Nah, beating the ABs in NZ with 13 men was ok - but it was the RWC that we actually enjoyed.

Hersh, bitter is an understatement mate. That was a game we should have won

But you guys did Nine looooongggg years ago

Parallels with the recent scot v oz game when you play rugby in typhoon like conditions. Very tight, defend and take your chances, you did and won.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
If I had to go back 9 years to find the last special rugby day I'd get the gun out.

Great display of running rugby by England, couldnt score a try.

Nah, beating the ABs in NZ with 13 men was ok - but it was the RWC that we actually enjoyed.

And with a great display of slotting your penalty kicks and drop goal rugby. Just jokes, the WC was well deserved and no one can dispute that.

Andrew Merthens love him or hate him in 2003 was THE best all round 10 in the game.That includes Spencer or Wilkinson,that he is considered good enough to still be using his skills at 37 says a lot.Three sides were promoted by his boot Harlequins,Toulon and Racing Metro[ I think].Saw his last AB game came on as a sub ,onthe field literally two minutes .Took a pass,stepped,and a perfect cross kick for Joe Rocks to run onto Joe just getting bundled into touch by two men.
Unlike some he enquired of the AB management if they required him in future BEFORE going overseas.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
If I had to go back 9 years to find the last special rugby day I'd get the gun out.

Great display of running rugby by England, couldnt score a try.

I doubt it would take me 9 years to get the gun out.

biltongbek wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:
If I had to go back 9 years to find the last special rugby day I'd get the gun out.

Great display of running rugby by England, couldnt score a try.

I doubt it would take me 9 years to get the gun out.

Yes Bryce told me your holster was a little loose a few months ago...

I remember the games. It was great English side. From memory they played a very tactically astute game. They held there own in the set piece, controlled the pace of the game at the ruck and kicked well. Yes they were cynical at the ruck. But that is the way rugby is. My overwhelming memory was their ability to seal the ball, which usually involved players off their feet and offside. Yes Dickinson(?) could have carded players earlier. However, many games are like this and the key point is we didn't adjust our play to deal with it.

I came out of the game slightly frustrated but not down heartened, the way I have been with the performances against certain Australian and South African sides. That's probably because of the relative performances of the teams. We'd lost 2 games to England in 6 months. But we'd had our opportunities to win them and blown it. The narrow loss at Twickenham was by an understrength side (at least half the side was second string or bench players). In terms of the game in Wellington, it was the first game of the season and although the team was near full strength, we looked our normal first up form.

I always wondered whether both games were influenced by Mitchel's appointment half way through the world cup cycle and a limited time to assess players and impose a game plan meant that he was still working on these whilst everyone one else was tapering for the cup. My feeling feeling at the time was we'd probably have the wood on them later in the season.

I'd have loved to have had Johnson and Day-Glo in the AB's. I reckon Wilkinson could have been useful as well.