Top Rank: Sounds Right?

Hey All,

I have been thinking about this for a while now…

I don’t know, it’s late and I’ve had a long day. My mind is wandering but I’ve been trying to decide (as objectively as possible) whether or not my own opinions were blindsiding me, making me dislike a promotional company that arguably, are the biggest in boxing.

I took some time to think about Top Rank; what they have given and taken from the sport, Bob Arum as a man. It left me with a couple of questions.

Who the hell is he? And what does he want from boxing?

In the last 5 years, in my opinion, he wants nothing more than money. He cashed his legacy out long ago, like a rock band doing a Coke commercial, and then announcing a stadium tour a week later, sponsored by the same company.

Top Rank has made fights. But they are mainly in-house and worse than that, often not fair.

Cotto vs Pac Man.

How the hell must Miguel Cotto have felt when Arum had him drain himself to make the weight? Only to then build him back up at 154 pounds people, ONCE his prized asset had walked through him in the ring? Like Bob Arum didn’t know Miguel Cotto couldn’t make the 140s anymore? Come on now.

JMM vs Pac Man III.

Jesus that was a bad decision. But once the outrage and frustration had subsided, the JMM spin off began. Bob started to tick JMM over until Pac needed another fight. Now we know that another fight is coming in November for the Pac Man (probably JMM), and we also know Bob made a few extra dollars from the JMM post-fight fizzle. A double winner again, Bob.

Think about Joshua Clottey vs Pac Man.

Clottey wrapped up tighter than an Eskimo in Alaska that night. Man, it looked like he had been paid an extra million just so he wouldn’t throw any punches, it was, ridiculous.

It’s not just about Manny, Manny himself got a bad shake. A bad shake to Timothy Bradley, another Top Rank fighter, but a shake nonetheless. Just focus on the fighters that Bob Arum puts his prized asset in with. I find problems with too many of them.

Cheatarito. What the hell was Arum thinking? Agreeing to support and make rich this vulgar man. Was he cashing in his morals by using Manny’s forgiving, religious nature to help him make, and then justify, the fight? It was promoted like some sort of purifying redemption, the whipping Pac gave this cheating hag.

Sergio Martinez just got told he has the Chavez Jr fight, but you know all sorts of sh** is going to get pulled in that one: weight, testing, judging, whose side the networks take and the referee will all be issues, trust me.

Don’t be surprised if there is absolutely no disclosure of basic information such as testing, ring size and glove weight either. Sergio Martinez will play along because he knows he’s better than the man he’ll be facing, but he doesn’t know what will be in his veins come fight night. Chavez Jr, there are far too many reasons for me to hate what is happening around this fighter to name on this thread. Please read my Chavez Jr thread for more information on how he makes me feel.

Donaire? Donaire is great, and Donaire is signing up to year round drug testing, I have no problem with Donaire. I will if he doesn’t get matched with Rigo in the next twelve to eighteen months, but that will depend on the amount of money Bob Arum can make.

Another issue I have with Top Rank: They don’t make exciting fights anymore, not unless they are financially viable or have Pac Man in them (usually both). GBP do make exciting fights, several of them. They match fighters who are in their prime. They test their men early and if they lose, celebrate the thrills they gave and build them back up. Amir Khan has lost two fights. Regardless of how he lost them GBP just signed him up to put him in with another undefeated stable-mate. I have to respect that. Timothy Bradley you say? Not the same thing, for me, Arum is cashing out one star to build another. But that’s another thread, that’s a hedge-bet played by the sport’s most calculated gambler (investor). In Europe Matchroom get exciting fights done, on both sides of the Atlantic. Just thought they deserved a mention.

Lopez got whipped twice by Salido and look at the outrage Arum kicked up over that? I mean the boy got whipped but Bob Arum pulls his strings and gets the rematch, only for it to happen again. Why did this happen? Well, either his boy was overhyped or kept out of harm’s way for too long. He came up against a hungry, beast of a veteran and got his arse handed to him. Bute reminded me of that fight, Bute was idle against world level opposition for too long, in my opinion.

Yuriorkis Gamboa? Where the f*** is Yuriorkis Gamboa? He’s prime and idle, prime and idle because of in-house issues. Oh, those in-house issues. Bob Arum coming out on TV and telling the world he had to send Manny millions of dollars, and personally pay off his gambling debts. Alex Ariza rebelling (idiot), Freddie Roach staying quiet (says more to me than the squabbling). There’s simply no unity coming from Top Rank, why is that? It is not coincidence, right?

And now we have a disgruntled Timothy Bradley. And he comes from a really small, close-knit community background. Already he’s pi**ed for how he’s being portrayed; like a thief who stole from the people when he won that fight. And like I said, he lost that fight, but it was close, much closer than HBO had it.

One more thing. Bob Arum can sound incredibly calculated, efficient, detailed and controlled when he is trying to prove his point on a matter. Read this interview and tell me that he isn’t being dismissive, informal and basically sounding like someone who has a lot to hide. Finally Emmanuel Steward says what we all feel.

http://www.boxingscene.com/arum-downs-stewards-concern-over-chavez-jr-doping--54125

Anyway, I have a lot to say on Top Rank, but as usual ask for your views so I can see it all more clearly.

Good read Emore.

The guy must be filthy rich and considering he can't be too far away from passing on to hell I thought he'd start making the fights everyone wants and think about money second but he doesn't care.

If he made another £200m he wouldn't even touch a penny of it as he's got so much already but will squabble over a few million.

He's a power hungry leach on the boxing society. Yeah he's put on some good shows but so could most if they had his level of control.

Cotto wasn't forced to drain himself he weighed 1lb less than he did for the Clottey fight only 5 months earlier. The whole Cotto weight drained thing is a myth.

The way he defended Margarito was shameful. and the main reason Cotto never signed a new contract with Top Rank.

Your right about Chvez Jr and Martinez. No way will Sergio get a fair crack at it. Bob played his part in some great fights in the past but unfortunately now seems determined to milk the sport for all he can get before he dies regardless of the damage he causes.

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Cotto wasn't forced to drain himself he weighed 1lb less than he did for the Clottey fight only 5 months earlier. The whole Cotto weight drained thing is a myth.

The way he defended Margarito was shameful. and the main reason Cotto never signed a new contract with Top Rank.

Your right about Chvez Jr and Martinez. No way will Sergio get a fair crack at it. Bob played his part in some great fights in the past but unfortunately now seems determined to milk the sport for all he can get before he dies regardless of the damage he causes.

Why impose it and have financial penalties if he came in over 145?

Great article!

azania wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Cotto wasn't forced to drain himself he weighed 1lb less than he did for the Clottey fight only 5 months earlier. The whole Cotto weight drained thing is a myth.

The way he defended Margarito was shameful. and the main reason Cotto never signed a new contract with Top Rank.

Your right about Chvez Jr and Martinez. No way will Sergio get a fair crack at it. Bob played his part in some great fights in the past but unfortunately now seems determined to milk the sport for all he can get before he dies regardless of the damage he causes.

Why impose it and have financial penalties if he came in over 145?

Thats how catchweights work. Even with no catchweight if you come in over the limit and your opponent is willing to go ahead with the fight there is a financial penalty. Cotto never had to accept the fight.

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

azania wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Cotto wasn't forced to drain himself he weighed 1lb less than he did for the Clottey fight only 5 months earlier. The whole Cotto weight drained thing is a myth.

The way he defended Margarito was shameful. and the main reason Cotto never signed a new contract with Top Rank.

Your right about Chvez Jr and Martinez. No way will Sergio get a fair crack at it. Bob played his part in some great fights in the past but unfortunately now seems determined to milk the sport for all he can get before he dies regardless of the damage he causes.

Why impose it and have financial penalties if he came in over 145?

Thats how catchweights work. Even with no catchweight if you come in over the limit and your opponent is willing to go ahead with the fight there is a financial penalty. Cotto never had to accept the fight.

For a career high payday and to secure his family for life, its pretty hard to turn it down. Heck even Martinez would consider coming down to 147 for the amount of money on offer.

The 145 limit was designed to weaken Cotto and Roach has said as much.

Cotto would have been stripped of the title. To the eternal shame of the WBO they wanted the money and would put a boxer's life through dehydration, at risk for more money. Total merchant bankers the lot of them.

azania wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:

azania wrote:

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Cotto wasn't forced to drain himself he weighed 1lb less than he did for the Clottey fight only 5 months earlier. The whole Cotto weight drained thing is a myth.

The way he defended Margarito was shameful. and the main reason Cotto never signed a new contract with Top Rank.

Your right about Chvez Jr and Martinez. No way will Sergio get a fair crack at it. Bob played his part in some great fights in the past but unfortunately now seems determined to milk the sport for all he can get before he dies regardless of the damage he causes.

Why impose it and have financial penalties if he came in over 145?

Thats how catchweights work. Even with no catchweight if you come in over the limit and your opponent is willing to go ahead with the fight there is a financial penalty. Cotto never had to accept the fight.

For a career high payday and to secure his family for life, its pretty hard to turn it down. Heck even Martinez would consider coming down to 147 for the amount of money on offer.

The 145 limit was designed to weaken Cotto and Roach has said as much.

Cotto would have been stripped of the title. To the eternal shame of the WBO they wanted the money and would put a boxer's life through dehydration, at risk for more money. Total merchant bankers the lot of them.

Cotto is a decent draw and had made good money out of the sport. I don't think he was drained he isn't a big guy. He wanted a catchweight of 150lbs for the Maragrito fight he's not a big 154lb boxer. He came in at 146lbs only 5 months earlier and beat Clottey who was a big strong boy at 147lbs when he bothered to throw a punch.

Weights and weight limits are arbitary. The ceilings in each division are just random weights assigned. Fighters come in all shapes and sizes.

Just because the ceiling in a division is 147 does not mean Cotto cant fight at 145 or 150.

I dont see a fighter agreeing to a catchweight as much different to a recognised weight.

Oscar fought Pacquiao is a recognised weight class and was far worse off than Cotto was in an unrecognised one.

If a fighter cant make a weight, dont agree to the fight. Be it a regular weight limit or a catchweight.

Nothing to suggest Cotto was weight drained. He didnt even use the excuse himself. I think he could make 145 no problem.

surely with the many weight catagories they can agree to fight in one, and when its a situation off say dawson vs ward in seperate divisions, if they cant agree which one to fight in make a catchweight between the two.

Pacquiao didnt have an established weight class when he fought Cotto. Hes a guy that could have been fighting anywhere between 135-147.

As a result, they made an agreement to fight Cotto at 145.

Pacquiao agreed to a catchweight of 144lbs for the 3rd Marquez fight and no gives him the break they are giving Cotto.

Thanks Boxingfan!

And thank you all for getting involved in this thread, felt a bit self-indulgent on my part, as lately my bias towards Top Rank has clouded my judgement. Still, i feel i have raised important issues, and to have your great minds get involved makes it feel worthwhile.

My real life has been so challenging lately, but coming to the boards, shooting the shiz with the 606 er's, it really has taken my mind of my troubles. Thanks team, genuinely, it's why i came over to boxing 606v2 as soon as i heard about. And why i will continue to contribute to the chat!

Respect, yo.

Side note: how many peeps do we have on the forum these days? seems to have really sprouted. Deservedly so, may i add.