Lucas Matthysse route to the top

First topic message reminder :

I know he has just won a very impressive victory and there will be an element of hype in what I say to many of you, but believe me, I been a fan for a while.

So, with that said, what route to the top does he take?

Now he has Soto under his belt, he should be able to start getting fights against other top ten opposition in the weight class.

Options

Maidana: The two are friends, I believe, but this would be a great fight for HBO or Showtime to snag and showcase the excitement factor he can bring against another hard hitter. Mattysse by KO in that one for me.

Olugssen: Perhaps not that well known in US to draw a big crowd, but I hear he is exciting and brings it every time.

Winner of Khan/Garcia: Fully expect Khan to win and move up. Maybe Garcia will have no choice but to take Mattysse on, and if he does, the way he leaves himself open when he throws, I would have to favour Mattysse by KO.

Marquez: What a fight that would be. A pick em between a slick counter puncher and a come forward hitter - but don't see it happening.

Morales: Please god no

Now, my personal fav

Brandon Rios: Make no mistake, this would be spectacular and I would hope and pray that Mattysse would flatten Rios. But can't happen because of TR and Goldenboy being idiots and not working together.

Love to see him in wit Zab again, too.

How far can he go? How does he get there?

Watch the Maidana fight then.

Surely by that logic Pernell Whitaker would be one of the easiest men to beat because he had no real power nor is Mayweather a debilitating puncher, skill has and always will be the determining factor. It comes in many forms but a punch by itself doesn't make a fighter great.

The thing with Matthysse though, is not that he hits hard, it's that he hits so cleanly. Only watched literally a couple of minutes of the Khan Maidana, but Matthysse looks a lot more dangerous to me.

That's a lot easier to do when you can physically bully your opponent like he could against Soto, doing that against a top tier fighter like Khan is a different proposition.

If Matthysse is as good a Maidana then hes well capable of beating Khan. I havent seen his fight with Alexander, will need to watch that. But his style is the kind Khan doesnt fare well against so its a fight that could go either way for me. Will probably never happen though. Has the ingredients to be a great fight. Two entertaining fighters with a blend of styles.

Its easier to hit someone cleanly when they are not skilled enough to deny you that chance.

Looks far sharper than Maidana to me, can bring one out of nowhere. Dynamite. It's Khan's chin v Matthysse power. Plus I think he's gotthe nous to find Khan with regularity. It's a fight I'd like to see.

He was fighting a different type of opponent. One stood infront of him and Maidana's opponent used the ring better.

I'd like to see it also. I think Khan will go through some hairy moments and perhaps climb off the floor to score a clear UD using his boxing skills. Were Khan to develop his jab further he would win even easier.

That's what most said before the Maidana fight, to me he looks far too slow and predictable to cope with the speed and combinations.

But Maidana and Peterson did catch him on the ropes and matthysse although as slow as Maidana throws straighter punches and uses his jab very well to get inside whereas maidana throws looping shots. Morales wouldn't be able to last 12 rounds vs matthysse.

Judah lasted 12 rounds with him so see no reason why Morales wouldn't, it's far too easy to bring hypothetical scenarios into it and try to pass them off as a definite.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:But Maidana and Peterson did catch him on the ropes and matthysse although as slow as Maidana throws straighter punches and uses his jab very well to get inside whereas maidana throws looping shots. Morales wouldn't be able to last 12 rounds vs matthysse.

If Lucas tries to box with Khan he would get a beating. His best hope is to force Khan into a slug fest. But Khan and speed will ensure a good win. Jhan is a better boxer than Alexander (imo), better than Judah (faster also) and a good athlete. Lucas is slow and walks in straight lines without much upper body movement. The more I look into it, the easier I see a Khan win providing Khan doesn't engage.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Judah lasted 12 rounds with him so see no reason why Morales wouldn't, it's far too easy to bring hypothetical scenarios into it and try to pass them off as a definite.

I'm sorry but how is morales more durable than Judah at the weight, if soto is a blown up SFW than so is Morales. Morales would be get stopped if Garcia can hurt him. Maidana was made to look crude, but that wasn't down to morales, Maidana is just a crude boxer. Matthysse is a lot better technically than Maidana and wouldnt let morales outbox him so easily

Az, the problem is khan would get into a tear-up. He did it vs Maidana and he did it vs Peterson, an they are the only 2 fighters you would pressure fighters. He hasn't the discipline imo not to, he doesn't move very well, he moves back in straight lines hence why he gets caught in the ropes too often. I did t say matthysse should box him, I said he uses his jab well, but he uses it to get inside so he can close the distance so he does get into a tear up. Khan can easily outbox him, he has the skills and speed but it's a big if

As impressive as the knockout was, I had Soto outboxing him up till that point, and his handspeed and skill were causing Matthyse problems, honestly think Matthyse is building up slightly more hype then deserved based on this performance. Definately think Khan has the beating of him (though i agree Khan may find himself in trouble on the way). UD Khan all the way.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Judah lasted 12 rounds with him so see no reason why Morales wouldn't, it's far too easy to bring hypothetical scenarios into it and try to pass them off as a definite.

I'm sorry but how is morales more durable than Judah at the weight, if soto is a blown up SFW than so is Morales. Morales would be get stopped if Garcia can hurt him. Maidana was made to look crude, but that wasn't down to morales, Maidana is just a crude boxer. Matthysse is a lot better technically than Maidana and wouldnt let morales outbox him so easily

Az, the problem is khan would get into a tear-up. He did it vs Maidana and he did it vs Peterson, an they are the only 2 fighters you would pressure fighters. He hasn't the discipline imo not to, he doesn't move very well, he moves back in straight lines hence why he gets caught in the ropes too often. I did t say matthysse should box him, I said he uses his jab well, but he uses it to get inside so he can close the distance so he does get into a tear up. Khan can easily outbox him, he has the skills and speed but it's a big if

And he won both fights (regardless of the officiating.) You're trying to build him up on the back of his blits of a small guy who was foolish enough to stand toe to toe. Marquez can stand with him, make him miss and counter all night long. If Khan fights in the manner he did against Kotelnik, he wins easily. He showed in that fight that he has the discipline to execute a game plan. Perhaps he was fighting scared. Perhaps against Maidana he wanted to show some nuts and against Peterson he got caught out by Lamont's changing tactic and his unreal/natural strength.

You have to remember that Khan only just beat Maidana and he shipped alot of punishment and was really hanging on. I think the fight showed he could punishment that previously many didnt suspect. But outsie of that I though question marks were there. Peterson confirmed them again.

Maidana is a decent boxer but hes nothing special. It depends where you rate Khan as a fighter, but at the time and prior to the Peterson loss he was on the cusp of manys top 10 and really a top ten fighter should be beating the likes of Maidana far more impressively. A washed up Morales gave him all he could handle.

With this in mind I would not be confident of Khan against Matthysse. I might make him a small favourite. He has great speed. Really fast hands. But when the pressure is put to him these attributes count for far less and he struggles to bring them into play. Its not unreasonable to think Mattysse could be even better than Maidana and if so it looks like a very tough fight for Khan on paper.

Much of it depends on Khan and how he fights. If he tries to 'man up' he will have a hard time. It he boxes and circles, the slower Lucas will have serious problems landing. His jab needs serious working though (Khan).

azania wrote:
And he won both fights (regardless of the officiating.) You're trying to build him up on the back of his blits of a small guy who was foolish enough to stand toe to toe. Marquez can stand with him, make him miss and counter all night long. If Khan fights in the manner he did against Kotelnik, he wins easily. He showed in that fight that he has the discipline to execute a game plan. Perhaps he was fighting scared. Perhaps against Maidana he wanted to show some nuts and against Peterson he got caught out by Lamont's changing tactic and his unreal/natural strength.

Yea but he made a meal of both with a lack of an inside game and the inability to stay off the ropes. I'm not building him up off the back of beating a blown up SFW. I'm building him up off the back of beating clearly in my eyes 2 of the top 5 (when he fought them) in Alexander and Judah knocking down both and blitzing a game fighter who hadn't been stopped since early in his career who he forced to get into a tear up.

You also said a lot of perhaps, we can't assume these things as imo there was no improvement in the inside in both fights so it's too easy to say khan wanted to show this or that.

The Kotelnik comparison doesn't mean much for facing matthysse as they stylistically aren't similar and Kotelnik doesn't hit nearly as hard as matthysse

I think that Marquez could beat him relatively easily after a rocky start but i can't see how khan makes easy work of it

I think the key issue with Khan is whether its his choice how he fights or not. I got the impression that Peterson and Maidana were dictating the terms of the fight when he fought them. It wasnt that Khan didnt want to box and move, it was that he couldnt find room to.

I get the impression its a fight that hasnt a hope of coming off anytime soon though which is a pity. The Garcia/Khan fight makes alot of boxing sense but its one Im just not really excited about. I think Garcia is made for Khan.

Having said that, I thought the Peterson fight would be uninspiring also so heres hoping Im wrong again.

Fair enough. His fights with those 2 were close and I scored both to Lucas. Not denying that he is good, but we're getting into the territory of over-hyping him.

Khan will never have an inside game. No need to pretend he will and can. Better boxers than he have zero inside game. Holmes and Ali for example.

The Kotelnik fight is relevant because it showed Khan can fight to instructions. It also showed him at his best imo. Circling away from a good, but slower boxer. Lets not forget that Kot was clearly robbed against Alexander even more clearly than Lucas was. Khan near on shut him out.

Of course I said a lot of perhaps. Winning or losing this fight will depend on Khan. No-one knows what Khan will turn up. The one who boxed brilliantly or the one who wanted to prove some kind of false manhood by trading with Maidana and Peterson....fights he won I'd add.

manos de piedra wrote:I think the key issue with Khan is whether its his choice how he fights or not. I got the impression that Peterson and Maidana were dictating the terms of the fight when he fought them. It wasnt that Khan didnt want to box and move, it was that he couldnt find room to.

I get the impression its a fight that hasnt a hope of coming off anytime soon though which is a pity. The Garcia/Khan fight makes alot of boxing sense but its one Im just not really excited about. I think Garcia is made for Khan.

Having said that, I thought the Peterson fight would be uninspiring also so heres hoping Im wrong again.

Khan imo, decided to stand and trade, Its as though he simply said to himself "f it, I'm going to fight fire with fire". Stupid choice (if it was a choice). Also his jab was weak in both fights. More work needed to bring more snap to it.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:I think the key issue with Khan is whether its his choice how he fights or not. I got the impression that Peterson and Maidana were dictating the terms of the fight when he fought them. It wasnt that Khan didnt want to box and move, it was that he couldnt find room to.

I get the impression its a fight that hasnt a hope of coming off anytime soon though which is a pity. The Garcia/Khan fight makes alot of boxing sense but its one Im just not really excited about. I think Garcia is made for Khan.

Having said that, I thought the Peterson fight would be uninspiring also so heres hoping Im wrong again.

Khan imo, decided to stand and trade, Its as though he simply said to himself "f it, I'm going to fight fire with fire". Stupid choice (if it was a choice). Also his jab was weak in both fights. More work needed to bring more snap to it.

Khan didn't choose to trade in either fight because if he did he would have done it in the centre of the ring not covering up on the ropes. Khan wasn't working when he did get caught meaning that he didn't want to open up

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:I think the key issue with Khan is whether its his choice how he fights or not. I got the impression that Peterson and Maidana were dictating the terms of the fight when he fought them. It wasnt that Khan didnt want to box and move, it was that he couldnt find room to.

I get the impression its a fight that hasnt a hope of coming off anytime soon though which is a pity. The Garcia/Khan fight makes alot of boxing sense but its one Im just not really excited about. I think Garcia is made for Khan.

Having said that, I thought the Peterson fight would be uninspiring also so heres hoping Im wrong again.

Khan imo, decided to stand and trade, Its as though he simply said to himself "f it, I'm going to fight fire with fire". Stupid choice (if it was a choice). Also his jab was weak in both fights. More work needed to bring more snap to it.

Khan didn't choose to trade in either fight because if he did he would have done it in the centre of the ring not covering up on the ropes. Khan wasn't working when he did get caught meaning that he didn't want to open up

I agree.

I think his does the macho kind of thing when hes hit but its not neccessarily by choice. The fact he was pushing Peterson alot to me indicated he wasnt comfortable and couldnt find the room he wanted without resorting to pushing excessively.

But he won both fights and took some serious blows without going down. Against Lucas he would be more weary of the power and I dont see anything in Lucas that leads me to believe he is effective in closing the distance. He may lead behind the jab which will be very effective, but Soto made that jab look better than it is.

Peterson was juiced. It gave him added stamina and strength.

I wouldnt dispute that, but I dont think Khan chose to fight the way he did in that fight regardless of Peterson being juiced. He just couldnt find room.

Likewise for large spells in the Maidana fight.

When hes tagged and under pressure he starts the macho routine but I dont think thats how he is looking to fight.

azania wrote:But he won both fights and took some serious blows without going down. Against Lucas he would be more weary of the power and I dont see anything in Lucas that leads me to believe he is effective in closing the distance. He may lead behind the jab which will be very effective, but Soto made that jab look better than it is.

MAIDANA closed the distance easily enough, why can't matthysse if Maidana (a slower and more predictable fighter) can't? Khan is not an elusive boxer. He exerts too much energy moving about the ring he can never keep it up which is why he lets fighters take middle rounds

I would say maidana is faster than matthyse who to me looks very slow, I get the impression also that he's less willing to walk through men. They're similar but with different strengths. Either way I see khan beating him quite comfortably.

Maybe he had no choice because of the juicing.

I agree about when he's tagged.

'Either way I see Khan beating him quite comfortably'



Are you being serious? You think that's an easy fight for Khan? Are you actually being serious?

This guy squeaked past Judah (average boxer and got robbed) and squeaked past Alexander (over-rated and possibly weight issues - also robbed). Khan is fresh, boundless stamina and very fast.

Lucas looked excellent against a blown up SFW who stood infront of him to be hit. No big deal. Khan wins with some oneasy moments. But a clear and decisive UD or late KO.

i cant see khan KOing him