Who will win the Rugby Championship?

First topic message reminder :

Are the people crazy?

Spoiler:

The prestigious webpage Planetrugby.com did a poll asking Who will win The Rugby Championship?
All is ok with the winer, NZ, but the crazy is that Argentina has more votes than Australia!
Me, as Argentine, don't think so.
What is your opinion?

Black caps

The biggest bunch of over hyped, over paid, bunch of pretenders in NZ sport. I grew up watching NZ cricket, hadlee, Crowe, Rutherford, Fleming, even Vetorri. But don't waste my time these days, bunch of jokers with no guts and determination. The average sports fan in NZ couldn't give a monkeys about the black caps, until they start playing with some ballz.

I only watch test cricket when the Black caps win, Gotta say, I dont actually get to watch much test cricket.

Typical Kiwis, glory hunters. Most of you probably only emigrated there so you could support a winning rugby team.

Argentina are more likely to beat the All Blacks before Scotland or Ireland....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/best-of-sport-analysis/news/article.cfm?c_id=1502180&objectid=10820713

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Typical Kiwis, glory hunters. Most of you probably only emigrated there so you could support a winning rugby team.

No, we were "shipped" out to the Colony before rugby was even invented.

you wernt shipped out- you pretty much left on your own accord

Well, 'glory' and 'NZ cricket' have rarely been used in the same sentence, ever. You're probably right PSW, my gran emigrated to NZ from Scotland, it all makes sense now. God bless you gran

The EPL has ruined some of these blackcaps' perception of their own importance and relevance to nz sport. Some have been shown up. So it's mainly attitude that's turned me off the black caps. Heck, I support many other kiwi sports teams that've known no glory.

mystiroakey wrote:you wernt shipped out- you pretty much left on your own accord

Shipped out for stealing a sheep.

my family just went out there to build your country. your great great granddad was shipped to aus mate- thats were the convicts went pal

Thanks mystir, they did a great job!

EBOP wrote:Well, 'glory' and 'NZ cricket' have rarely been used in the same sentence, ever. You're probably right PSW, my gran emigrated to NZ from Scotland, it all makes sense now. God bless you gran

If only she'd known how good the Scottish cricket rugby team would have been eh
SH grand slam champions

We migrated to NZ because we didnt want to be seen supporting the second best team in World rugby.

well you could be supporting the best cricket team, better game an all(should i have said that!!)

Better game for retired folk who have 5 days to spare.

It takes 30 blokes to play rugby and even then they get tired after 60 minutes, pansy game

Cricket is more a game of torture and endurance.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy all forms of the game, when it's played right. This usually involves teams like oz, SA, England, sub-continent. Try watching the minnow cricket teams, including the black caps, yawn.

Actually, the Pom cricketers are doing really well at the moment. Can't belive I'm going to say this, but in cricket, I'd support the poms over oz. Not sure why, it's totally irrational, probably just because I feel sorry for them as underdogs over the years. And oz cricketers have defined the word arrogance over the years. Don't mind a winning team, but they did it with such little grace.

they were just so good for so long- if england remain at the top for 10 years you will switch to aus.

Depends mystir how you guys handle the relatively recent change in fortunes. Naturally I don't support Pom 'cricket', just a teeny weeny bit happy they've turned it around. Let's be honest, they weren't flash a few years back.

What was the secret? Any chance of replicating that in your rugby team?

off course, england will be back- but its all about love and philosphy and no short term fixes- which we seem to misunderstand in rugby and football.

The best teams out there do things there way, they dont copy or go with a negative stratergy- there is belief that there way is the best.

Just like the eng cricket team, the spainish football team and the kiwi rugby team.

Haha I played at Hutt Districts. I think Peaches played for Stokes Vegas. I don't know Ryder but am surprised I haven't met him due to how many times he pops up on my "People you may know" Facebook thingy-I know BJ Crook's (Welly captain and Ryder's flatmate) family well as I played with his brother Darrin. Yeah Ollie Mannix was a knob. Actually of all the guys my age with famous parents Mark Hewson was the nicest guy.

Gavin Larsen, Chris Harris, Rod Latham-remember that loose cannon Murphy Su'a as well? I still have that video Smithy did called From Cloth Cap To Helmet somewhere...

Richard Petrie Dish, Willy Watson, Salzberger, my God it makes me feel I could've been a Black Cap.

I must say I miss cricket. Saw NZ beat SA in the World Cup in an Irish pub last year (I think) and the interest was right there. I used to love playing backyard cricket or on the beach. Regulation shaved tennis ball, tape one side to imitate swing, six and out if it went over the fence and you couldn't find it in the garden. Nothing like getting a ball on the half volley and tonking it over long on or long off.

This was one of my favourite Fast Show skits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2x_DI7tzNQ Maybe that's what lays in store to teach my future children the wonderful game of cricket.

On the subject of arrogance, I find it interesting that you often hear comments on AB arrogance. Now there are no doubt a few tools who jump on the bandwagon of their victories but I've always found the ABs to be humble. Then I often hear the Black Caps are the people's favourite benign team because they so sportingly concede defeat on so many occasions and are not a threat. But many run ins with the players and a lot of their egos are through the roof and I'm not sure how they have such a view of themselves. Maybe they're like a boss who knows he's found his way very high up on absolutely nothing of substance and is getting away with murder.

Yeah but Jesse Ryder could have SBW in a fight.

FACT

Ryder's certainly fat enough to be an opponent of SBW...

Think the Aussie cricket team of the past 20 years were arrogant and in a way it's needed to win. The ABs are the same. As a fan we get stick for being arrogant too. To be honest we're pretty fastidious-we always pick out things we could have done better when we win, and we do the same when we lose. When we do this after a loss we do look like we're looking for excuses but often it's looking for things we could have done better. 07 yeah the ref and the great French defence played a big part but so did our selections and tactics which we naturally analysed to death. Basically we think we're the best rugby side in the world. No more, no less. Tests are a matter of inches and we're not that far ahead of the pack no matter how many journos try to say so. We're usually far enough ahead to win all of the time, which makes our stats so impressive. Though the true NZ rugby fans that watch rugby from all over will know when we're not at the top of the tree. Those loudmouths that don't-well we try and keep away from them in foreign pubs!

I miss cricket too. It is about time we got to a World Cup final though. We always fancy our chances there despite how rubbish our buildups are. But Kia is right far too many egos.

I don't think arrogance is required for a successful team. Confidence... yes.

One thing that struck me was how classy, eloquent and dignified Andrew Strauss, Alastair Cook... even KP was after each Ashes win here in Australia. I wished why couldn't we be like that too (when we were on a winning streak)? Did our guys even notice the way the England players spoke or were they so gutted that it all went over their heads?

I agree DC... those above three words are missing from the Australian cricket (and most other sporting teams/individuals) vocabulary.
I don't believe the ABs are arrogant at all. Considering their successes - they all speak very well and you'll never hear them boasting or heaping praise on themselves (like our cricket team did/does).

To me it's so simple - if you are well educated and feel confident talking into a microphone, there is no need to act arrogantly or show the slightest amount of disrespect to a beaten team. That's why I like to see them cut down to size and forced into a fair degree of humiliation and disappointment... spluttering out thinly veiled excuses for another loss. I wouldn't say that if they spoke like The Don in his famous welcome speech in 1948.

I've always thought - ffs!!!... why doesn't someone pull our sporting people aside and tell them to use more than 10 words to express themselves... say something dignified... and most importantly thank the opposition for their efforts? It's not that hard at all,... is it?

Cue the how un-Australian comments - but I know many people here in Oz who think the same as I do. I just know we'll never learn and I dread to hear the chirpy, nasal self-congratulating crap that will no doubt come out of the mouths of a few of our Olympic athletes... should they do better than expected and win a few medals.

Maybe I'm being a little too harsh - a handful do know how to string a coherent sentence together when victorious but the vast majority of our sportspeople need to go back to school... of the Finishing variety!

By the way...

They've made a mini-series of WSC and the Packer Era here recently. It's called: "Howzat! Kerry Packer's War".

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/network-stumps-up-a-series-on-packers-world-series-adventure-20120513-1yl1e.html

It will be on TV soon. It is chock-full of all the vulgar, ungracious behaviour of players summarised in my previous post.

I'm sure you'll get it in England too... since Tony Greig plays a big part. I've seen some snippets and out-takes from it already. It looks hilarious with all the pastel-coloured flannel shirts (unbuttoned halfway down), facial & body hair, oversized jewellery and no shortage of loutish dialogue from the Aussies and an even more foul-mouthed Kerry Packer.

There are actors for Trevor, Greg & Ian Chappell, Lillee, Len Pascoe, Marsh, Doug Walters, etc and a host of other international cricketers and 70s characters like Austin Robertson, Paul Hogan and John Cornell (Strop).

I'll be cringing and laughing at the same time... most likely.

Good stuff LB

Reckon there's a fine line between confidence and arrogance, even though they're polar opposites, as i see it. It'd be easy to flip from confidence into arrogance territory. I'm probably well off, but for me, confidence is knowing you can do it, arrogance is telling everyone you can do it.

There's rugby teams that always talk about how they're going to win certain games (but don't). They should just keep it to themselves. Fans have open slather to talk it up if they so wish, but not the players/coaches. It's just uncouth I reckon.

The Howzat! mini-series was featured on NZ news a couple of months ago. Hope we get it.

True EBOP. Arrogance is merely misplaced confidence. The consequence being that you look like a knob when you exhibit it.

Richie didn't mention the French in his after match RWC win speech. He usually does but I was wondering whether Rougerie got to him and he thought "Bugger you I'm not going to say anything".

McGrath was an absolute idiot. He was a champion but did not know when to shut up. Even champions get done over. I just couldn't believe him walking off sledging Nathan Astle in Perth when he was 156 not out.

Yes, in retrospect Richie must have been fuming over that gouging.

Totally agree on McGrath. Everyone lavishes praise on him but he was a very poor wum. Hopeless, in fact. He also didn't invite Michael Bevan to his 2nd wedding which was pretty poor form considering Jane was best mates with Bevan's wife. No excuse for that, imo... considering how much time the Bevans put into supporting him with the Pink Day at the SCG.

I dont see anything wrong with aussie arrogance. I like the banter. England v Oz are the biggest rivalry in cricket- so it just makes it all the better to get on top of them

mystiroakey wrote:off course, england will be back- but its all about love and philosphy and no short term fixes- which we seem to misunderstand in rugby and football.

The best teams out there do things there way, they dont copy or go with a negative stratergy- there is belief that there way is the best.

Just like the eng cricket team, the spainish football team and the kiwi rugby team.

You forgot Wales rugby team

the what?


dont be mad mate- but i will throw you a bone.

it isnt just the eng cricket team.

is the england and welsh cricket team

mowgli wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:off course, england will be back- but its all about love and philosphy and no short term fixes- which we seem to misunderstand in rugby and football.

The best teams out there do things there way, they dont copy or go with a negative stratergy- there is belief that there way is the best.

Just like the eng cricket team, the spainish football team and the kiwi rugby team.

You forgot Wales rugby team

He said best teams not 4th 6th best

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

mowgli wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:off course, england will be back- but its all about love and philosphy and no short term fixes- which we seem to misunderstand in rugby and football.

The best teams out there do things there way, they dont copy or go with a negative stratergy- there is belief that there way is the best.

Just like the eng cricket team, the spainish football team and the kiwi rugby team.

You forgot Wales rugby team

He said best teams not 4th 6th best

mystiroakey wrote:I dont see anything wrong with aussie arrogance. I like the banter. England v Oz are the biggest rivalry in cricket- so it just makes it all the better to get on top of them

Banter is fine... agreed, however arrogance has a slightly different meaning. It's a question of tact I suppose.

Linebreaker wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I dont see anything wrong with aussie arrogance. I like the banter. England v Oz are the biggest rivalry in cricket- so it just makes it all the better to get on top of them

Banter is fine... agreed, however arrogance has a slightly different meaning. It's a question of tact I suppose.

Yeah most of us would draw the line at threatening to glass Ian Botham, but maybe that was just a cultural misunderstanding.

Interesting discussion on TMS the other day regarding Dale Steyn leaving his drink within reach of the crowd. Apparently if you did that in Melbourne someone would urine in it, which admittedly is probably better than Headingly where the crowd just urine in their seats.

I'll never forget standing in the old tiers at Stamford Bridge and seeing a torrent of urine cascading down towards the bottom. Charming experience.

yeah i dont think fighting talk or p!sssing everywhere is the same as arrogance either- but there you go!

I saw some ad just now for the RC.... an Argentine one I think. Quite a touristy feel to it.
edit: (actually... it's an Aussie ad with a Spanish-speaking guy)