My Irish Squad for the Autumn

First topic message reminder :

This is obviously hypothetical as it is well in advance and there is some rugby to be played and of course players will go in and out of form and of course some may get injured.

I'd like something of a revamp compared to what has been going on in the Irish team for the past 12 months or so. I am picking this squad to play fast, off the deck rugby and I would want the team to be coached as such and the tactics to reflect this. For that reason there could be some big name absentees.

Am leaving out some of the injured lot who may not make it back in time.

Please bare in mind this is the training squad and thus some are in who won't play albeit to make up numbers or for experience
LH's: Healy-Court-McAllister
TH's: Ross-Fitzpatrick-Hagan
Hk's: Best-Strauss-Cronin
Locks: POC-Ryan-Tuohy-Toner-DOC
Backrow: Ferris-Ryan-POM-Henry-Wilson-Heaslip
Scrumhalves: Reddan-Murray-Marshall
Flyhalves: Sexton-Madigan-Jackson
Centres: Downey-BOD-Cave-McFadden
Back 3: Bowe-Earls-Gilroy-Zebo-Kearney-Trimble

20 forwards and 16 backs

Not considered due to injury: SOB, Kearney Jr, Fitzgerald, Ruddock, Jones

Reasonings:

1) McAllister I think could be a great shout and has looked promising when he gets gametime, better than Wilkinson anyways. Hopefully McGrath can start making an impression at Leinster.
2) Strauss in as he is just a league above Sherry
3) Hagan I think has more talent than Loughney I think and would like to see Macklin more often.
4) DOC is in there really to make up the numbers to be honest, not sure if Nagle is ready may benefit from playing while others are away anyways. Toner deservedly in the squad ahead of McCarthy.
5) Ryan in instead of Jennings. Jennings hasn't performed at International level so going with youth. Wilson I believe could get in there but will be behind Heaslip.
6) I'd have the 9's in that order and if there was a 4th spot would take Stringer.
7) Not taking ROG due to the desire to play attacking rugby which I don't feel he can do right from the off. I think Madigan is much better at that and could be an excellent player for Ireland in the future. Excellent impact sub too. Jackson in as well as one for the future.
8 ) Downey in to try and fill the void in terms of size in the backs and bring physicality at 12. McFadden hopefully will have overtaken Darcy at 12 and all will be well with the world. Earls could be understudy to BOD but I don't think he is a 13 (he is a born winger) it could well be Cave but he needs to up it as do others like EOM, Spence etc.
9) I decided to include both Zebo and Gilroy and would ahve included Kearney Jr too if he wasn't injured ahead of Trimble.

My 22:

Healy-Best-Ross
Ryan-POC
Ferris-Heaslip-POM
Reddan-Sexton
Downey-BOD
Earls-Kearney-Bowe

Strauss-Fitzpatrick-Tuohy/Toner-Henry-Marshall-Madigan-Gilroy

I think that is a good attacking team who are mobile and yet abrasive. Downey and Bowe give the backs a target man. The locks in particular are really well balanced and the backrow looks tasty too.

The aim would be to play off quick ball and try and keep the tempo high, attacking before the defence has time to fully re-set. Use dummy runners and bring in the likes of Earls and Bowe into the line to create mismatches. Ferris, healy and POM would be the primary carriers in the pack and the entire backrow are more than capable lineout options. Scrummaging-wise I'd expect even more of an improvement due to POC in there but not sure I'd want him touching the ball much in terms of keeping the tempo up.

The bench would be used to increase the temp again with possibly Madigan or Sexton going in at 12 and Strauss injecting some pace as well. Tuohy/Toner would come on for POC in the last 15 all things going to plan.

What do people think?
Would you include/leave out someone?
Is that a good split?
Are there any other young guys who could be in there?
Can McFadden get ahead of Darcy?
Is Fitzpatrick worth a bench spot ahead of Court?
Would others bring ROG?
Is Ryan (the flanker) too green?
Is Nagle worth a shot?
Is there anywhere where we are weak?
Is Downey going to get a chance?

PLEASE DON'T LET THIS TURN INTO A NIQ DEBATE RE: STRAUSS.

Easiest job in world rugby Rory, just keep sending Thornley the exclusive on the starting 22...... ......

rodders wrote:

The academies need to be improved, the schools/underage system needs revamped and opportunities need created at provincial level for the younger players. The AIB needs invested in because the gap is too big between club and provincial rugby.

This is exactly what is happening at Ulster. McLaughlin will be working on the schools front and we have invested in new people in the Academy. With the new IRFU rules for NIQ's then more opportunity will come along for the younger players.
Unfortunately that gap between Club and Province will always be there. Getting anyone to invest in the AIB might be a bridge too far.

Patience is what is required here. This won't happen overnight. Maybe I will be around to see it bear fruit, I hope so.

Rava wrote:Patience is what is required here. This won't happen overnight. Maybe I will be around to see it bear fruit, I hope so.

It is but again some of these problems have been building for 6 or 7 seasons, longer. Changes are happening but I'd question if they are the right ones and if they are happening quickly enough. We didn't become a bad team overnight, its been building since 2007 when the core of the team that came through circa 2000 hit their peaks.

But we stuck with them and won a GS and everyone was happy.... then we still stuck with them and now we are sad because our succession players in key positions are in their mid/late 20s with a scattering of caps in different positions and getting trampled all over by giant maories and post adolescent Welshmen. Our backup front row can barely win our own set pieces.

Yet despite this the NIEs are still being signed, Leinster are on their 3rd successive NIQ lock. Munster still can't produce centres and Ulster are...well, we know where we are.... Connacht are flooded with NIEs and projects and are giving Dan Parks a pension.

Gordon D'arcy gets a 2 year central contract (he wanted 3!) so the IRFU money men can use his image on billboards until a year away from the RWC and after his 34th Birthday.

Change is happening but not enough.

The IRFU wants to have their cake and eat it... to milk the image rights of aging big name players as long as possible but also for the provinces to pick more IQ academy players and for the national team to win more games.

The policies just are not consistant with the goals.

Darcy was resigned because he is still our best 12 (sad sad fact), + its good to have an old head around to teach an up and comer. Anyone know who this Andrew Goodman chap is? pointless signing leinster

I dont get this signing at all. He better not get in the way of macken.

hopefully he'll do a berquist and get injured early, only to be seen again at mini rugby camps

kunu wrote:Darcy was resigned because he is still our best 12 (sad sad fact

He is but to give a guy who's 32 a 2 year deal, 3 years away from the RWC? The central contracts are supposed to be to retain the most fundimental players to the National side, who may otherwise go overseas for better deals.

Lets face it D'arcy isn't going anywhere when he's due to get his rebate in a few years. I doubt the offers were lined up for him elsewhere. If he left then his starting spot would have been backfilled by a younger and probably (in a season or two) better Leinster player.

Sorry but I can't believe rugby reasons are the main driver behind some of these deals, if they are questions needs asked about the judgement of those handing them out.

kunu wrote:hopefully he'll do a berquist and get injured early, only to be seen again at mini rugby camps

Actually ive read more into it and it makes sense now. Hes a 12 that can cover 10 and hes a good kicker.This is what we needed because madigan will be called up to the irish squad this year. Still though i thought we would be able to attract bigger signings.

The Five Stages of Grief

Denial Sin E
Anger rodders
Bargaining Rava
Depression Gibbo, Notch
Acceptance Declan Kidney? The IRFU?

Madigan, Kearney jr and Hanaran can save Irelands attacking backplay...Fitzgerald and Bowe too if they can get back to form and fitness. Maybe Gilroy and Zeebooo too. Add Sexton and Kearney in and there is some light at the end of the tunnel of mediocrity.

They have got zee magic in their boots. BOD and D'arcy used theirs up.

No way I'll never be like Rava, Gibbo and Notch!....

Oh shoite thats me back to stage 1 again

rodders wrote:Madigan, Kearney jr and Hanaran can save Irelands attacking backplay...Fitzgerald and Bowe too if they can get back to form and fitness. Maybe Gilroy and Zeebooo too. Add Sexton and Kearney in and there is some light at the end of the tunnel of mediocrity.

They have got zee magic in their boots. BOD and D'arcy used theirs up.

It is good to mix the magicians with the monsters. That is what will save our back line. As you say, the likes of Madigan and Hanrahan can add some real creativity and inventiveness, and from there we can pick players to exploit it. The Kearneys, Gilroy, Fitz, Bowe and Earls are all well balanced, dangerous runners who would really benefit from those guys.

rodders wrote:No way I'll never be like Rava, Gibbo and Notch!....

Oh shoite thats me back to stage 1 again

Sounds like you were back at Stage 2 by the end of that realisation. It's all very fluid

rodders wrote:

kunu wrote:Darcy was resigned because he is still our best 12 (sad sad fact

He is but to give a guy who's 32 a 2 year deal, 3 years away from the RWC? The central contracts are supposed to be to retain the most fundimental players to the National side, who may otherwise go overseas for better deals.

Lets face it D'arcy isn't going anywhere when he's due to get his rebate in a few years. I doubt the offers were lined up for him elsewhere. If he left then his starting spot would have been backfilled by a younger and probably (in a season or two) better Leinster player.

Sorry but I can't believe rugby reasons are the main driver behind some of these deals, if they are questions needs asked about the judgement of those handing them out.

More than likely D'Arcy got a 2 year central contract because it should never have been taken from him when he was the starting 12 for province & country for those 2 years he was on a provincial contract. Probably more on Leinster's insistance than anything else who had to carry him for those 2 years while he was being managed for the IRFU.

Looks like Munster are doing their bit on the development side. Five week residential course in Rockwell College for underage teams.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/matchdaytv/?play=media&id=12328

When they play Hanrahan I will agree Munster are doing their bit.

kunu wrote:hopefully he'll do a berquist and get injured early, only to be seen again at mini rugby camps

I wouldn’t wish injury on anyone.

Potentially Madigan could be in the international squad by Autumn we’ll be left with Noel Reid to start games for us, he’s only got 2 starts and 4 sub appearances to his name so far, would be no harm to have an experienced operator (a Shaun Berne type player) to play either alongside him or start the game and bring Reid on to finish it. This fella also covers 12, which is handy if Darcy, O’Driscoll and McFadden are away.

Mickado wrote:

kunu wrote:hopefully he'll do a berquist and get injured early, only to be seen again at mini rugby camps

I wouldn’t wish injury on anyone.

Potentially Madigan could be in the international squad by Autumn we’ll be left with Noel Reid to start games for us, he’s only got 2 starts and 4 sub appearances to his name so far, would be no harm to have an experienced operator (a Shaun Berne type player) to play either alongside him or start the game and bring Reid on to finish it. This fella also covers 12, which is handy if Darcy, O’Driscoll and McFadden are away.

Wishful thinking Mick?

Even though he should already be capped and a core member of the team IMO.

Forget it lads... Puma, Powerade and Bank of Ireland have the team picked for the next 3 seasons.

Madigan will have to wait until they are ready to splash out on new billboards....

I think O2 have had a bit of input too Rods

Rory, I hope Kidney doesn’t read 606, he’ll think Madigan can’t kick

Rory_Gallagher wrote:When they play Hanrahan I will agree Munster are doing their bit.

It will be really interesting to see how the Munster underage teams do this year in the interpros (remember the game opening match in the Aviva Munster & Connacht were beaten out the door*).


*If JJ was playing they would have won it though

Mickado wrote:I think O2 have had a bit of input too Rods

Rory, I hope Kidney doesn’t read 606, he’ll think Madigan can’t kick

It usually goes the less you do it the better you are. Madigan should be a shoe-in as the 606 kicker.

If that's the case then surely JJ should be starting at this stage, hasn't kicked a ball at senior level.

Mickado wrote:

kunu wrote:hopefully he'll do a berquist and get injured early, only to be seen again at mini rugby camps

I wouldn’t wish injury on anyone.

Meant it as a joke , I dont hope for innocent humans to get badly hurt in any circumstance...

Mickado wrote:If that's the case then surely JJ should be starting at this stage, hasn't kicked a ball at senior level.

Thats the opinion that seems to be shared around here !

It will be interesting to see who gets the blame for over-hyping JJ when he does start getting games at senior level (Does Munster A not count?). Leinster put out a lot of players who had played Rabo. Some were even capped!