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Replace bairstow with?

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Mike Selig
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Post by mystiroakey Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:14 pm

options.

Bairstow
mogs
bops
taylor
finn(add a 5th bowler)

or any one else!


I am gonna go with bops, good all round option- good aggresive batter, in form and test proven!

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Post by Guest Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:17 pm

Bopara...Flower has pretty much said bopara will play.

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Post by Shelsey93 Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:20 pm

Bopara will definitely play, barring injury. In fact Bairstow is not being 'replaced' - Bairstow was the stand-in for the injured Bopara against WI.

Morgan is rebuilding a case, but heavy FC runs will be needed before he is seriously considered. I see no reason whatsoever why Bopara would have been overtaken by Bairstow/Taylor since the 1st West Indies Test - in fact Bopara's position will have strengthened with his one-day performances.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:07 pm

Well after the first game many of us were shouting for mogs, who would have got the nod if bop had struggled.

And shelsey remember that barstow didnt take bops place- he took mogs place

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Post by ShankyCricket Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:14 pm

Bopara! Last chance saloon though.

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Post by chrisss Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:21 pm

Was Morgan ever in contention? He got into the test team in the first place because of his one day runs- and we saw how that we worked it. IMO, he needs to go back to the county championship and score runs there before he puts himself back in contention for the test team.

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Post by skyeman Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:30 pm

chrisss wrote:Was Morgan ever in contention? He got into the test team in the first place because of his one day runs- and we saw how that we worked it. IMO, he needs to go back to the county championship and score runs there before he puts himself back in contention for the test team.

thumbsup

Agreed, when he first came into the team, some thought (myself included) that he would be the free scoring player that he is in the shorter format and consistently, but the Test arena has found him out a wee bit.
But he now say's he has found the formula to suceed.

Over to Bopara Rolling Eyes


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Post by mystiroakey Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:33 pm

nothing in mogs and bop at test level.. so thats kind of a mute point

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Post by skyeman Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:47 pm

That is kind of my point, Morgan against Pakistan looked like a frightened cat (i probably could have scored more runs) these two will probably go backwards and forwards unless one can become more consistent or a better alternative can be found.

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Post by hodge Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:22 pm

Taylor will probably end up being the long term option, however a potential shout for me could be Jos Buttler, he has started scoring more CC runs over the last season or 2, if he can become a bit more consistent he could be the option and has that aggressive streak about him as well that can be useful at 5/6.

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Post by Mike Selig Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:26 pm

skyeman wrote:(i probably could have scored more runs)

To be honest I doubt anyone who plays on these boards (hodge aside - from the season's update thread it seems he sometimes plays at a reasonable standard) could make more than 10 or 15 runs in a series against that sort of quality of bowling. Although I realise you were no doubt being tongue in cheek.

I do agree entirely with your overall analysis though - Morgan was originally thought to have that bit extra (based on his one-day performances) but frankly has shown that so far he doesn't have the skills set to be a successful test player (and I say this as a massive Morgan fan).

Bopara has done very well in his latest one-day stint (his previous one was poor) and doesn't have the technical flaws that Morgan does - he deserves a 2nd (3rd if you include his ill-thought out debut series in Sri Lanka) shot at test cricket. I've not always been convinced by his temperament, but he seems to have gained some extra steel.

Bairstow has had a taste of the highest level, knows what he has to work on and if he's got what it takes he'll do that and come back a much better player.

Taylor is a top-order batsman (according to those that matter anyway) so will have to wait for a slot further up the order.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:38 pm

well struass will be on his way soon so i am hopeing that is when we will introduce taylor(push kp up to opener with cook though)- bring him in at 3,4 or 5

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Post by ShankyCricket Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:39 pm

mystiroakey wrote:well struass will be on his way soon so i am hopeing that is when we will introduce taylor(push kp up to opener with cook though)- bring him in at 3,4 or 5
I think he will go after the back to back Ashes.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:45 pm

Yep, maybe - i would like to think we would drop him if his form is bad or if we lose(his primary role is offcourse captain and winning is the only important factor for me).

I am sure we all agree Cook should be the next captain and i am sure he is learning of strauss

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Post by gboycottnut Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:38 pm

Although Bopara did well in the recent ODI series V Australia, I am still not convinced that Bopara can still hack it at test level against bowlers of high quality and pace.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:41 pm

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-south-africa-2012/content/current/story/572413.html

Its Bopara

When it comes down to it his record is now worse that the two guys given a chance to replace him, and hes been on great form for England in other formats recently. he also gives England the support bowling option theyve been lacking, hardly a Kallis but better than a Trott. The side looks a little more balanced with him in.

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Post by msp83 Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:56 am

Morgan when he started out, played a real fine innings against Pakistan when everyone other than Paul Collingwood struggled. Since then though, his test form has been quite patchy, he did score big against India ones, but the consistency has been missing.
Ravi Bopara too had test success earlier, but was exposed by the australians, and before that the Lankans. He hasn't set the world on fire in ODI cricket either, but in recent months, he has been doing a fair job. Besides, he can be a useful support bowler and when conditions are in his favor, can chip in with the odd wicket or 2. The 4 man attack wouldn't mind a bit of parttime support coming their way, and Bopara is a better bowler than Trott or Pietersen.
So Bopara for now, but he has to take his chance. From what I have gathered from these forums, England can look at Ben Stokes or Chris Woakes, if they both develop their all-round abilities. But that has to be in the future.

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Post by Carrotdude Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:14 am

Bopara appears to have improved immensely over the last year in the limited overs games, average is going up and looks massively more comfortable in every situation. I think at number 6 he will be fine, and given a run in the side could well make it his own for the next few years. It will also be nice to have a more competent 5th bowling option, I know he's not brilliant but he does get it up at 80mph and can get swing in the right conditions - it's better than Trott anyway!

Since the start of the ODI series with India last summer he's averaging a touch under 46 in that format which is very good indeed.

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Post by gboycottnut Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:51 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-south-africa-2012/content/current/story/572413.html

Its Bopara

When it comes down to it his record is now worse that the two guys given a chance to replace him, and hes been on great form for England in other formats recently. he also gives England the support bowling option theyve been lacking, hardly a Kallis but better than a Trott. The side looks a little more balanced with him in.

Well I would like to ask this question. Does a combination of both Trott and Bopara as 2 part-time gentle medium pace bowlers equal that of Kallis's bowling ability in the South African team?

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Post by mystiroakey Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:00 pm

no off course not- but at least we dont need to throw the ball to trott

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:20 pm

To be fair we do tend to judge Kallis on his past bowling. In tests he has only taken 2 wickets or more in an innings once in over 2 years, and only twice in over 3 years.
He rarely bowls more than 10 overs a game now. In games over the last 2 years hes averaged 55 with the ball.

Having said that Bopara averages errr 212 in test cricket, Trott 98 and KP 151. These guys are not wicket taking threats.

JPD has a test average of 44 and actually bowls more overs per match than Kallis now.....although thats mostly going to be on spinning wickets in the sub continent rather than a damp morning at trent bridge,.

The upshot is SA clearly have the edge on support bowling, but its unlikely to be the single issue that will decide the series with neither team having anything that resembles a true front line 5th bowler now.

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Post by Shelsey93 Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:07 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:To be fair we do tend to judge Kallis on his past bowling. In tests he has only taken 2 wickets or more in an innings once in over 2 years, and only twice in over 3 years.

Having watches the games that isn't really a fair reflection though. He doesn't bowl that much because they have a good front-line attack, and when he does is still a threat.

I don't see the fact that SA have a fifth (sixth if you include Duminy) bowler as a major factor in this series though. He again won't bowl tremendously often, and in many ways is a luxury rather than part of Plan A.

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Post by gboycottnut Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:35 pm

How about either of the young Kent openers Sam Northeast or Daniel Bell-Drummond, both of whom have done well today batting against what will be the South African bowling attack for the first test match?

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