German GP Thread - Will contain spoilers of Practice/Qualifying and Race Results

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

As the 2012 Formula One season hits its mid-point, round 10 of the championships sees the teams head for the German Grand Prix and the Hockenheimring, which returns to the calendar after its now traditional
year off.

It’s been 10 years since a redesign saw the circuit change from a flat-out blast down two massive linked straights to a circuit offering perhaps a more complex challenge, although possibly a less viscerally exciting one.

Modern Hockenheim is a tricky race to set-up for. While the forest straights are gone, it’s still a relatively fast circuit and drivers will be on full throttle for upwards of 64% of the lap. The high-speed early part of the track, particular from turns two to six should call for a medium to lower downforce set-up but the circuit also features a tight stadium section where high downforce is needed, so a balancing act is required. Given the quick changes of direction encountered in the stadium section and through turns three and four, a stable car is also important.

For F1 tyre supplier Pirelli, this is something of a trip into the unknown. The only recent experience it has of the track is from a GP3 race in 2010 and that weekend was often wet. As such the tyre company is bringing its medium and soft tyres, believing that the adaptable medium will cover most bases on a track defined by compromise.

Five German drivers will start this weekend: Sebastian Vettel, Michael Schumacher, Nico Rosberg, Timo Glock and Nico Hulkenberg. Of the five, only Schumacher has won here before (in 1995, ‘02, ‘04 and ‘06). All will be keen to put in good performances on home soil, though for Vettel, who has 100 Drivers’ Championship points, this weekend may be particularly important in his efforts to keep pace with championship leader Fernando Alonso (129 points) and second-placed Red Bull team-mate Mark Webber (116 points).

Hockenheimring


Length of lap
4.574km
Lap record
1:13.780
(Kimi Räikkönen
McLaren-Mercedes, 2004)
Start line/finish line offset 0.000km
Total number of race laps

67
Total race distance
306.458km
Pitlane speed limits
60km/h during practice, 100km/h during qualifying and race


CHANGES TO THE CIRCUIT SINCE 2010


►The drag strip around the outside of turn 16 will have all the rubber removed before the Grand Prix.
►Better quality artificial grass will be used on the exit of turn 1, it will be three metres in width and extended to ensure drivers have to cross it to get back on the track.
►An additional conveyor belt will be fitted after two rows on all six row barriers, these barriers will then comprise, conveyor, two rows, conveyor, four rows and then wall.

German GP
Fast Facts
► This will be the 33rd time the German Grand Prix has been held at Hockenheim. It first staged the event in 1970, when Jochen Rindt took his final grand prix win before his tragic death at Monza the following month. Hockenheim was next used in 1977, after Niki Lauda’s crash at the Nürburgring spelled the end of that track’s hosting of the race until the current event-sharing programme was instituted in 2009.
► Aside from Hockenheim and the Nürburgring, just one other track has hosted the round, which has been on the F1 calendar since 1951. That was Berlin’s AVUS circuit, which hosted the 1959 event. Ferrari’s Tony Brooks won the race, which was divided into two heats, with aggregate placings being used to determine the victor.
► This year marks the 10th anniversary of the last major redesign of the Hockenheimring. The somewhat controversial changes made for the 2002 race included the abandonment of the long, forested straights of the circuit, the shortening of the track and the construction of the new Mercedes Tribune.
► The old Hockenheim, with its long, punishing straights was always a car breaker, but never more so than in 1994. Eleven of the 26 starters went out in a series of unrelated accidents on lap one. A further seven cars fell by the wayside during the race until at the end Gerhard Berger led home just eight finishers. One of the most notable retirements was that of Jos Verstappen whose Benetton was enveloped in a fireball when fuel sprayed over his car during a pit stop.
► The 2000 race will go down as one of the most memorable German GPs at Hockenheim. In an incident-packed race, Ferrari’s Rubens Barrichello took his first GP win, despite starting from 18th, having to cope with rain and also a safety car intervention, due to a disgruntled former Mercedes employee invading the track.
► Michael Schumacher has the most German Grand Prix wins, with four, achieved in 1995, 2002, 2004 and 2006. All were scored at Hockenheim. Michael and brother Ralf are the only German drivers to have won their home event. Ralf won here in 2001 for BMW-Williams.
► That means that the German GP is just one of three currently raced circuits that defending champion Sebastian Vettel has yet to win. His best result at a German GP remains second place at the Nürburgring in 2009. The other GP victories that continue to elude him are Canada and the next race up, Hungary.
► The German GP has been run at Hockenheim seven times since the circuit redesign and in that time the man on pole has gone on to win four times (‘02, ‘03, ‘04 and ’08). On two other occasions it’s been the second-placed starter who has taken victory (2006 and 2010). Only once has a driver started from off the front row and won. That honour goes to Fernando Alonso, who started from third and won in 2005.

Weather Forecast: http://www.myweather2.com/Motor-Racing/Germany/Hockenheimring-Circuit.aspx?sday=2

Source: FIA

[monty junior]

got to say well done to alonso, he's driven superb. its starting to look like alonsos year.

on another note it will be interesting to see all those haters who were saying lewis should have been penalised for passing rosberg off track in bahrain, will they say the same about vettel passing button..

That should be looked at. he's using more of the track than allowed, i think he should be penalised for that.

Well he should feel really hard done by as Hamilton got nothing.

[monty junior]

Thought that would be the outcome. Vettel's team should have told him to give the place back. I think he felt aggrieved with being jumped in the pits and wanted to take what he thought was rightfully his.

On top of this he was also moaning about Hamilton interfering with the race which I don't get. Hamilton was quicker (ahem in a broken car) and pulled away from him so its not as if he was being held up.

Then there was the gesture at Webber during quali when Webber - who BTW also had a job to do and was trying to find space for himself and saw him late.

All in all I think there's a bit of arrogance creeping in to both Vettel and his team and maybe this will bring them down a peg or two.

It's not as if he had new tyres or anything..

[Critical_mass]

got to say well done to alonso, he's driven superb. its starting to look like alonsos year.

on another note it will be interesting to see all those haters who were saying lewis should have been penalised for passing rosberg off track in bahrain, will they say the same about vettel passing button..

That should be looked at. he's using more of the track than allowed, i think he should be penalised for that.

Well he should feel really hard done by as Hamilton got nothing.

er no.. lewis was partially along side rosberg, vettel wasnt and button didnt veer suddenly to the side of the track the car was attempting to pass, forcing the driver off the road. button left plenty of space but vettel chose to get on the throttle early and take to the run off. so no i disagree, he shouldnt be feeling hard done by.

if lewis was behind rosberg like alonso was, yet still went round the outside off the track then yes. he should ahve been penalised.

[monty junior]

I dare say you wouldn't be saying that if it was Hamilton who had commited the crime though. I just think that at the hairpin passes have been completed so often by going off the track since 2002 that to start penalising driver's now is stupid. Was a good drive from Vettel today though, normal service was resumed with him beating Webber by 40 odd seconds.

[Critical_mass]

nope id have said he deserved what he got. im a lewis fan but ill acknowledge when hes done wrong. i did state above that lewis was along side rosberg before being shoved off the track. vettel wasnt along side button before going off the track. if lewis wasnt along side or if vettel was along side, id be agreeing either way.

vettel did drive well apart from that one move, but he could have given the place back and tried again elsewhere. it was only a matter of time before vettel passed button... whom im suprised didnt get passed alonso.

good come back from button too. it looks like the updates on the mclaren are working... at least in hockenheim. looking forward to hungary... then the dread break.. grr i hate the break.. lasts forever.

[Alessandro Ciambella]

Señor Diaz drove an exceptional race today. He held off 2 Mclarens and a Red Bull in high pressure DRS zones. He was barely 1 second ahead of the car in front all race. He even held of Hamilton who had superior tyres and equipment whilst lesser drivers wilted under his pressure.

Fernando Alonso ended the last Germans era of domination (Schumacher) and he is about to end another one.

Well done Jenson Button MBE! Some of the less knowledgable posters on this site had written you off and said your overrated. Well done on putting those guys back in their place. You out qualified, out raced and out performed your inferior team mate.

Forza Fernando Alonso! The most complete driver on the grid!

[monty junior]

nope id have said he deserved what he got. im a lewis fan but ill acknowledge when hes done wrong. i did state above that lewis was along side rosberg before being shoved off the track. vettel wasnt along side button before going off the track. if lewis wasnt along side or if vettel was along side, id be agreeing either way.

vettel did drive well apart from that one move, but he could have given the place back and tried again elsewhere. it was only a matter of time before vettel passed button... whom im suprised didnt get passed alonso.

good come back from button too. it looks like the updates on the mclaren are working... at least in hockenheim. looking forward to hungary... then the dread break.. grr i hate the break.. lasts forever.

Fair enough, i think he probably would have given the place back but being the last lap i don't think there were any other realistic passing places after the hairpin exit.

[Critical_mass]

hmmmm... maybe im not sure. The team should have been straight on the radio. Though after the race there was no mention of not sure whether to give the place back, to the RB team it was a fair move.

I see AC is back talking nonsense again. Lewis may have been "inferior" this race. but by your logic, Button has been inferior to lewis for the rest of the season. Oh and Button may not have beaten lewis if he hadnt had that puncture. Alonso fought off ONE Mclaren - BUtton, thats it.

More drivel from AC.

[SteveG]

The team should have been straight on the radio.

Precisely. The team can see the bigger picture. After getting away with the engine mapping fisaco earlier and listening to the drivel from Horner after the race I get the feeling that they were beginning to think they were bullet proof.

[Critical_mass]

i agree steve.

[liverbnz]

How long are we going to have to listen to the commnetators on BBC/Sky make awful jokes following a Fenando Alonso Italian/Spanish radio transmission? Just have someone translate it for Gods sake. Surely there's a computer program out there that can translate that instantly?

[Trench Foot]

How long are we going to have to listen to the commnetators on BBC/Sky make awful jokes following a Fenando Alonso Italian/Spanish radio transmission? Just have someone translate it for Gods sake. Surely there's a computer program out there that can translate that instantly?

Is it really worth it? Because the transmissions are delayed, most of the time anyone with a decent knowledge of F1 and a modicum of common sense has already worked out what they're saying in advance anyway?

[Critical_mass]

they should be made to speak in english like the rest of the teams imo.

[Trench Foot]

Are the other teams 'made' to speak in English?

There obviously isn't a rule stating as such, otherwise Ferrari wouldn't be doing it with Alonso. So, if Ferrari are operating within the rules, I'm not sure what the problem is, I doubt viewers in Italy are too concerned.

[liverbnz]

How long are we going to have to listen to the commnetators on BBC/Sky make awful jokes following a Fenando Alonso Italian/Spanish radio transmission? Just have someone translate it for Gods sake. Surely there's a computer program out there that can translate that instantly?

Is it really worth it? Because the transmissions are delayed, most of the time anyone with a decent knowledge of F1 and a modicum of common sense has already worked out what they're saying in advance anyway?

Why bother broadcasting them then? If you are going to do it, do it properly. 'Fernando is faster than you' wouldn't have meant much if it was in a different language.

[liverbnz]

Are the other teams 'made' to speak in English?

There obviously isn't a rule stating as such, otherwise Ferrari wouldn't be doing it with Alonso. So, if Ferrari are operating within the rules, I'm not sure what the problem is, I doubt viewers in Italy are too concerned.

That's not the point. The BBC and Sky are broadcasting to British viewers, it's their responsibility to ensure their viewers are understanding what they are hearing, otherwise it's pointless.

[Trench Foot]

How long are we going to have to listen to the commnetators on BBC/Sky make awful jokes following a Fenando Alonso Italian/Spanish radio transmission? Just have someone translate it for Gods sake. Surely there's a computer program out there that can translate that instantly?

Is it really worth it? Because the transmissions are delayed, most of the time anyone with a decent knowledge of F1 and a modicum of common sense has already worked out what they're saying in advance anyway?

Why bother broadcasting them then? If you are going to do it, do it properly. 'Fernando is faster than you' wouldn't have meant much if it was in a different language.

Are the other teams 'made' to speak in English?

There obviously isn't a rule stating as such, otherwise Ferrari wouldn't be doing it with Alonso. So, if Ferrari are operating within the rules, I'm not sure what the problem is, I doubt viewers in Italy are too concerned.

That's not the point. The BBC and Sky are broadcasting to British viewers, it's their responsibility to ensure their viewers are understanding what they are hearing, otherwise it's pointless.

They're rather selfish suggestions. The BBC and Sky are only rebroadcasting the radio transmissions recieved from the teams. If those transmissions happen to be in Italian, thats tough i'm afraid.

Why do they have a 'responsibility' to make sure you understand the transmissions? I'd dispute that they do actually.

[liverbnz]

What is selfish about it? Is it that difficult for Sky/BBC to either not broadcast them or at least have them translated?

Jesus, I was only mentioning a little bugbear to see if anyone else was irritated by it. I didn't want a full blown pedantic debate about the matter.

[Guest]

Thought it was a poor race overall, nothing spectacular. Alonso controlled the race superbly and was a worthy winner. It's looking incredibly difficult to see anyone challenging him this year. I said the season was beginning to lose it's spark due to Alonso's form, the unpredictability being less evident and the unbelievable bad luck for Hamilton.

If anything Button's second place, no doubt was a great drive, but in terms of the championship and for McLaren's hopes of a WDC, it was clearly for the wrong driver and just emphasised along with Webber's poor performance how everything is falling into place for Alonso. He's had years of moaning since his last title but this year is all smiles and I expect him to easily gap the competition all the way to the season end.

On a positive note the McLaren's updates clearly worked. The pit stops have improved dramatically but that doesn't paper over the embarrassing, amateurish mistakes in the early part of the season that will undoubtedly cost McLaren dearly.

Great drivers from the Sauber pair and surely Perez has to replace Massa. Massa ruining Hamilton's race.......where have we seen that before?

[Trench Foot]

What is selfish about it? Is it that difficult for Sky/BBC to either not broadcast them or at least have them translated?

Jesus, I was only mentioning a little bugbear to see if anyone else was irritated by it. I didn't want a full blown pedantic debate about the matter.

Well, stop going on about it then...

[Critical_mass]

i think he has a point. its sky and bbc that are broadcasting it and how many other countries second language is english - not trying to sound like a c0ck saying this.

but also, it could be vital information we're missing out on that could affect the race.

[SteveG]

Had a little chuckle at the language debate. It is a bit frustrating but the fact that not a single pundit at SKY can give a translation isnt surprising. I'm sure there won't be any similar debates on spanish/italian/german F1 forums about 99% of the radio transmissions being in English as it's probably not a problem.

I fooled around in language classes at school many years ago and never took it seriously but would now love to be able to speak other languages for both business and pleasure. Attitudes in schools have since changed so for those with kids old enough - try asking them the next time Alonso is yapping away on his radio - you may be surprised.

Not really adding to the argument in either way - just a kind of observation of life.

[Critical_mass]

Anyone else notice Petrov just letting lewis through and giving him position as lewis chanced alonso and alonso lapping him? lap 39

[Guest]

Yer I saying that to the person I was watching it with. Petrov and others just saw the waves blue flags and immediately let Alonso, Hamilton & Vettel through. It was a difficult situation altogether and you rarely ever see it but Lewis was basically being given free overtakes for position because of this position in between the leaders......quite funny.

As for the radio debate, 'Fernando, acaba de ganar la carrera. Felicitaciones'

......or something along those lines is usually what Andrea Stella is saying on most race weekends this season. Really need a big result in Hungary for McLaren just to give us that belief for Hamilton's chances.

[SteveG]

Just been reading that the damage to Hamilton's car included his gear box. AAAAGH - would this mean a grid penalty if it needs changing?
Hope not otherwise its just adding insult to injury.

[Critical_mass]

chased*

Maybe AC could translate for us? hehe

I agree, another boobie race and the wdc race will be over for Mclaren.

No he retired so, as Brundle said, he can change the box without penalty.

[dyrewolfe]

How long are we going to have to listen to the commnetators on BBC/Sky make awful jokes following a Fenando Alonso Italian/Spanish radio transmission? Just have someone translate it for Gods sake. Surely there's a computer program out there that can translate that instantly?

Sure, the Beeb / Sky are going to hire someone purely to translate Ferrari's pit radio snippets.

I would also be very surprised if there is any software out there that can instantaneously translate audio messages. Text, yes, but spoken language is another matter entirely.

Personally I find the jokes quite amusing. So Ferrari have found a way to keep their radio broadcasts private. Big deal. The time to worry will be when Lotus start doing theirs in French/Finnish, Mercedes do theirs in German and McLaren do theirs in Cockney rhyming slang.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

How long are we going to have to listen to the commnetators on BBC/Sky make awful jokes following a Fenando Alonso Italian/Spanish radio transmission? Just have someone translate it for Gods sake. Surely there's a computer program out there that can translate that instantly?

Sure, the Beeb / Sky are going to hire someone purely to translate Ferrari's pit radio snippets.

I would also be very surprised if there is any software out there that can instantaneously translate audio messages. Text, yes, but spoken language is another matter entirely.

Personally I find the jokes quite amusing. So Ferrari have found a way to keep their radio broadcasts private. Big deal. The time to worry will be when Lotus start doing theirs in French/Finnish, Mercedes do theirs in German and McLaren do theirs in Cockney rhyming slang.

At Silverstone the Beeb apparently did have an Italian speaker around - after a couple of Alonso messages they had a "basically there they were saying X"

[liverbnz]

I'm regretting even mentioning it now.

[Guest]

I don't know why you are so bothered about having radio messages translated. 95% of the time the radio messages are pointless. If you can't understand the race and the strategies unfolding then you have a serious issue. Why do we want to know someone has a problem on the radio, I'd rather just be surprised by them suddenly blowing up or retiring from the race, not be told about it 2 laps before and basically ruining the moment. (I hope you get my point).

Radio messages are over-rated. The teams are using coded messages for a reason, to not give away vital information during the race. I will say one thing, the McLaren engineers do annoy me. Anyone see during Q1 Hamilton's engineer come on and says, 'yes lewis, that time will be good enough for us to get into Q2, good job'. Lewis comes into the pits, gets out the car and takes off his helmet, even JB did the same. Only a matter of minutes later the rest of the field decide to switch to option tyres and put mclaren immediately under serious pressure. Brainless, it's like they really have no understanding of F1 at all or anything related to strategy.

[SteveG]

I will say one thing, the McLaren engineers do annoy me.

Especially when they keep telling Hamilton who for whatever reason is blatently off the pace that he's doing a great job. Monaco springs to mind.

[liverbnz]

I will say one thing, the McLaren engineers do annoy me.

Especially when they keep telling Hamilton who for whatever reason is blatently off the pace that he's doing a great job. Monaco springs to mind.

Most do that though. Kimi's being a great example on Sunday.

Although Massa seems to be constantly getting the hurry up from Rob Smedley.

@john. As I said, it was a small bugbear that they broadcast messages in a foreign language, that's it.

[Guest]

Just heard (can anyone confirm) that there expecting possible thunderstorms over the weekend in Budapest and potential for a wet race.......oh dear McLaren!

McLaren have been done over in the last two qualifying sessions in the wet and Hamilton was clearly a front row favourite for Germany before the disaster of Q3. Also hearing Kovalianen is being linked with Ferrari this morning for 2013 after he has become frustrated with the lack of progress at Caterham.

[Trench Foot]

I'm regretting even mentioning it now.

Well, you reap what you sow.

[liverbnz]

Just heard (can anyone confirm) that there expecting possible thunderstorms over the weekend in Budapest and potential for a wet race.

Yep, heard that too and the BBC weather forecast seems to confirm this.

[Guest]

Well the two previous wet qualifyings have ended in Alonso poles and huge frustration for McLaren. If Alonso wins this weekend it's all but over for Hamilton. Just read Algueruari's blog and I agree and definitely think that the F1 season's unpredictability has gone and the races are returning to normal now, actually less exciting.

[liverbnz]

Teams are getting a better idea of how to setup with this year's tyres so the field is taking its expected shape, although Merc are yet again falling below pre-season hype. McLaren seemed to have taken the longest to get it right but their were obvious signs they'd got it for Hockenheim even if qualifying strategy and bad luck in the race for Lewis hindered their results.

I think it's fairly difficult to have your setup spot on for all 20 races as other teams will be more suited to certain tracks, so it's really up to the team to ensure they are near perfect in areas they can control which is strategy and pit stops. McLaren have been pretty poor at both over the first part of the season and have cost themselves a lot of points regardless of whether or not they have the pace of the Red Bulls or Ferrari.

[SteveG]

Not sure that I go along with the argument that Mclaren are poor in the wet.

At Siverstone Hamilton was very quick in full wets before Q3 where it all went pear shaped on inters. In Germany Hamilton was fast on inters but was undone in Q3 on full wets - the reverse of Silverstone. However I put that one down to a drying track and maybe (because of the 3 second gap to pole) a mistake by Hami on his final attempt before running out of time.

At worst it seems to be a mixed bag.

[Sponsored content]