Celts coaching in Aviva

Nigel davies. Gloucester
Bryan redpath. Sale
Connor oshea. Harlequins
Lyn jones. London welsh
David young. Wasps
Mark mccall. Saracens

Just wanted to point this out as it once again illustrates the dominant influence that celtic rugby is having on northern hemisphere rugby which is good to see.

I agree with your post, but not your conclusion. What it does show is the growing level of internationalisation across rugby, sport in general, business and life.

Bit of a tenuous link tbh...

The influx of celts into the aviva has gone almost unnoticed. One day england will wake up and find that their rugby teams fortunes are In danger of following their Football team because they too have allowed their domestic competition to be dominated by imports. The focus that the wru and irfu especially are now putting on their development structures and the lack of vision and accountability to the game of the benefactors running english rugby should raise the alarm bells for every english rugby supporter.

Hmm, bloke with just a dozen posts to his name comes on and posts a Celts v England thing.

Yawn come on moderators. Get this idiotic thread closed.

Hi fives all aroudn everyone we're the best around. Let's go Celts.
A group of people nobody has care about for about 500 years!

Eh, blessings of an iPhone. Makes journeys far better. Just means less of the time is spent doing literally nothing or just one thing

I would like to say thank you to Ireland (the term "Celts" is a bit odd as it's not really a homogenous group, is it?) for giving us Connor O'Shea. But then, we did make Mike Ross into a decent tight head for you in return.

Nothing much to read into it. Theres 3 foreigners coaching 3 of Irelands 4 provinces.

ChequeredJersey wrote:I would like to say thank you to Ireland (the term "Celts" is a bit odd as it's not really a homogenous group, is it?) for giving us Connor O'Shea. But then, we did make Mike Ross into a decent tight head for you in return.

Indeed

And Australia and Wales are coached by Kiwis and Scotland by an Englishman

profitius wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:I would like to say thank you to Ireland (the term "Celts" is a bit odd as it's not really a homogenous group, is it?) for giving us Connor O'Shea. But then, we did make Mike Ross into a decent tight head for you in return.

Indeed

I think on balance we go the better of that exchange, though there were a tough couple of years finding Rossy's replacement. Conor's not exactly a product of the Irish system, though. All his coaching experience has been in England, initially with LI, then with the RFU and latterly with, erm, the English Institute of Sport before finding his true calling (at least until Ireland and the Lions come knocking. I really hope it takes them a long time to do so, though I fear it won't).

What about southern Hemp coaching in Northern Hemp? That would be a bigger trend

Kingshu wrote:What about southern Hemp coaching in Northern Hemp? That would be a bigger trend

I expect it would - I wonder if that's a side effect of the shamateurism era? Most of the itinerant SH coaches are guys who played in that era, so would have had a head start on learning what's needed to be or coach a professional rugby player. On that basis the trend should fade out in time, as long as NH coaches are coming through. We've seen something of that at the top level in England, with the Lancaster/Wig/Farrell/Catt unit installed for England, but it remains to be seen whether it translates to club level.

One of the things I wonder about from a Quins perspective is succession planning in the coaching department. We know, they know and he knows that it's only a matter of time before Conor is offered a job he can't refuse (he was sounded out for the England one but put himself out of the running), but it would be characteristic of the club and the man if they are already planning for that point and looking to promote from within to replace him. When Deano left we speculated about whether they'd take a chance on Tony Diprose (currently academy and defence coach), but it did feel to early for him. I would not be surprised at all if one of Conor's roles is to develop him as his successor.

Poorfour, I always envisiged Easter going on to the Quins coaching staff at some point as well. Perhaps he could do the Richard Cockerill thing of serve his time as a forwards coach, then head coach and then DOR over the course of five or so seasons.

Nice to see that it's not just the Rabo teams picking off the Rabo coaches either, Neil Back is now forwards coach at Edinburgh.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Poorfour, I always envisiged Easter going on to the Quins coaching staff at some point as well. Perhaps he could do the Richard Cockerill thing of serve his time as a forwards coach, then head coach and then DOR over the course of five or so seasons.

Nice to see that it's not just the Rabo teams picking off the Rabo coaches either, Neil Back is now forwards coach at Edinburgh.

Interesting thought. I always thought Easter would end up as a pundit or commentator - he's outspoken and sardonic enough to do well at that, but I suspect he's too much of an individualist to make a good coach. You never know, though. I'm not sure who would have expected Deano to transition so easily from old school rugby player to modern DoR.

Well who would have thought Cockers would have been able to have the personal skills to manage being a DOR? He was an angry man in his playing days and not really one for 'man management'.

He's still an angry man in the stands [ducks for cover]...

red_stag wrote:Hmm, bloke with just a dozen posts to his name comes on and posts a Celts v England thing.

Yawn come on moderators. Get this idiotic thread closed.

Rich coming from you, the person telling people to grow a pair when complaining about the crap typed out by AWOP. In fact, don't you always say his articles are good debates?

He's still an angry man in the stands [ducks for cover]...

Not as bad as he used to be, he is certainly continuing to mellow. Even COS comes down and stalks around the technical area barking out instructions to players and the ref if things are going to plan with Quins. No one would want a coach with no interest in the side at the helm, the show of emotions is only natural. Cockers has only been reprimanded for his actions once (against the Dragons in the LV Cup) after which he publically apologised.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

He's still an angry man in the stands [ducks for cover]...

Not as bad as he used to be, he is certainly continuing to mellow. Even COS comes down and stalks around the technical area barking out instructions to players and the ref if things are going to plan with Quins. No one would want a coach with no interest in the side at the helm, the show of emotions is only natural. Cockers has only been reprimanded for his actions once (against the Dragons in the LV Cup) after which he publically apologised.

Still seems a bit arrogant though.

Nothing wrong with being arrogant

I dunno, he did apologise to the fans after the major defeats of the season and has admitted talking to more experienced coaches (e.g. Graham Henry, Sir Clive) to get their view on how things could be improved, citing his inexperience and that he is still 'learning his trade'.

Having said that he still has the deep embedded Tigers mantra of every game must be won, every appearence in a Tigers shirt must be earned etc etc.

Generally it's the head coach O'Connor who bigs up the team and players in the media, then again he is an Aussie.

Smart move by Cockers. It's just in the past he's whinged too much about the ref or the 'intensity' of the Premiership. I seen a clip of him on his way to Welford Rd before and he didn't seem to want to even acknowledge the supporters.

Yeah Tigers players are sometimes known for that. They had to put out a press release back in Austin's day saying that we're sorry about him ignoring you before the game but he's in the zone. Hang around after the game and you can have photos and signatures etc. It was always the case and the players are normally happy to meet fans after games. I've never known a player ignore a fan outside of the pre game setting, fair enough.

Cockers does like having a go at refs (less so these days, I think someone had a word) but then again he is the same person who has called for more top level refs to come together and agree interpretations so that the laws are applied more consistently. Most the people on here would say the same thing.

He does rub people up the wrong way but that's because he won't tiptoe around a subject. The Tigers fans on the offy board sometimes get annoyed with his stubborn nature as well, like his refusal to hire a bl00dy defence coach!

Rabo Head Coaches

Edinburgh - Michael Bradley (Ire)
Glasgow - Gregor Townsend (Sco)
Treviso - Franco Smith (RSA)
Zebre - Alessandro Troncon (Ita)
Connacht - Eric Elwood (Ire)
Leinster - Joe Schmidt (NZ)
Munster - Rob Penney (NZ)
Ulster - Mark Anscombe (NZ)
Blues - Phil Davies (Wal)
Dragons - Darren Edwards (Wal)
Ospreys - Steve Tandy (Wal)
Scarlets - SimonEasterby (Ire)

Rabo -: 3 Irish, 3 Welsh, 1 Scottish.
Jeff-: 2 Irish, 3 Welsh, 1 Scottish

Not too much difference there, except our non-national coaches are all SH

I personally couldn't care less about the nationality of the coach. Of the list prepared by ScarletS above, the best coach would have to be Joe Schmidt, and the worst (or least experienced) Gregor Townsend.

It's a global business and coaches should not be afraid to travel about and experience different environments.

Edinburgh benefitted hugely from input from Todd Blackadder and Andy Robinson, and I suspect will get a lot from Bradley and Back.

I'm proud that Scotland has always produced some good coaches with a deep knowledge of the game. It's been the same with football as well. I just wish sometimes we had players of a similar calibre!

If you can't do, teach

Bath - Gold (SA)
Exeter - Baxter (Eng)
Glaws - Davies (Wel)
Worcester - Hill (Eng)
Quins - O'Shea (Ire)
Sarries - McCall (Ire)
LI - Smith (Aus)
OW - Jones (Wel)
Saints - Mallinder (Eng)
Tigers - Cockerill (Eng)
Sale - Redpath (Sco)
Wasps - Young (Wel)

It is a tad worrying that there are only 4 English DORs in the AP at the minute. Not so worrying when you consider that the majority of their staff are English but even so I wouldn't be suprised it swing back a bit more in time. I'd imagine the likes of Gold, Evans and Young probably haven't got that long at their respective clubs if things start to go wrong.

Sam - Oxford Wlesh (is that what OW means?) coach is Lyn Jones, not Evans.

Course it is SS, ta, Lyn Evans was someone I used to play with a few years ago.

I do think your right about Dai Young, Gold and Jones, although I wouldn't be too suprised to see Nigel Davies either become a hero or villan at Glaws. He took a few seasons to get things how he wanted them at the Scarlets, and even though the fans voiced their dislike for how bad things were, he was shown some loyalty by the board, I am not too sure if he will get the same amount of support should things go through a rough season or so there.

Gloucester are normally pretty patient, they are family owned and pretty old school so I would have thought he'd have time. Having said that their legendary chairman has passed away so his son might have other ideas. We will see.

Dai Young probably isn't cheap so may be ditched as a cost cutting measure if things don't go well, Wasps have recruited well this off season so he'll have no excuses.

Gold is being backed by a multi-millionaire that expects things to be won sooner rather than later and has pretty much the same team as last season. He's going to have to work hard to give them some back bone. Geech only got a short period of time, expect Gold to be given similar.

Jones, well he is right up against it and the board seem fairly argumentative. That whole situation could go south very quickly. Then again they could group together and be realistic, take this seasons AP money build for the future despite relegation. Will be interesting to see how that one plays out.

surely, the point here is that the rabo direct is proving itself to be a self sufficient league. It produces a new batch of players every year who go on to play at international level. The aviva meanwhile, relies too heavily on imports.

It doesn't though. The AP final had 21/30 English starters, and 33/46 in the match squads and Quins, the Champions, have 12 Englsih starters in their full team, and 7 on the bench, most of whom either started or became the players they are at Quins. Even the much maligned Sarries have an entirely English starting back line.

The mods should be congratulated as the level of wumming here is far lower than the old 606. Its just a shame that those that get through lack any wit or humour.

Sam, Ryan Walkinshaw has made a number of comments that sound like ND will be given plenty of time. Hopefully he won't need to have to be given that time anyway!

On a seperate note, is ND actually a foreign coach for Glaws? After all we're often acused of being Welsh!

I have never heard of gloucester being accused of being welsh. You only have to take one look at the one dimensional style of rugby that they play down there at kingsholm to realise that they are not welsh. ND is a quality coach but you cant polish a turd.

Have you ever watched Gloucester play rugby? Or Wales in the past 12 months? Damn it, I'm biting!

HongKongCherry wrote:The mods should be congratulated as the level of wumming here is far lower than the old 606. Its just a shame that those that get through lack any wit or humour.

Sam, Ryan Walkinshaw has made a number of comments that sound like ND will be given plenty of time. Hopefully he won't need to have to be given that time anyway!

On a seperate note, is ND actually a foreign coach for Glaws? After all we're often acused of being Welsh!

Gloucester is close enough to Wales to be considered half Welsh so you can have that one, I have always supported the border teams in the English league as they more often or not have a strong contingent of Welsh players, Gloucester, Worcester, Bath and Bristol have always had my support, except when they are playing a Welsh side. I am old enough to remember the cross border games between Glaws and Cardiff and they used to have some right ding dongs, those were the days.

Scrumdown wrote:surely, the point here is that the rabo direct is proving itself to be a self sufficient league. It produces a new batch of players every year who go on to play at international level. The aviva meanwhile, relies too heavily on imports.

Isn't that because Aironi folded?

Sam, Ryan Walkinshaw has made a number of comments that sound like ND will be given plenty of time. Hopefully he won't need to have to be given that time anyway!

Hope so, his dad's management allowed good stability at Glaws, if his son carries on the family traits coupled with your new signings you'll do well.

Scrumdown wrote:I have never heard of gloucester being accused of being welsh. You only have to take one look at the one dimensional style of rugby that they play down there at kingsholm to realise that they are not welsh. ND is a quality coach but you cant polish a turd.

God you are clueless aren't you

Scrumdown wrote:Nigel davies. Gloucester
Bryan redpath. Sale
Connor oshea. Harlequins
Lyn jones. London welsh
David young. Wasps
Mark mccall. Saracens

Just wanted to point this out as it once again illustrates the dominant influence that celtic rugby is having on northern hemisphere rugby which is good to see.

Scrumdown, you will do your post more justice if you take the total number of teams and compared all the coaches from across all the countries as a comparison.

This doesn't say much.

Scrumdown wrote:I have never heard of gloucester being accused of being welsh. You only have to take one look at the one dimensional style of rugby that they play down there at kingsholm to realise that they are not welsh. ND is a quality coach but you cant polish a turd.

I don't know, look at where the Scarlets were after his first season in charge, we had the HEC's record worst seasonal result (0pts) and we had the longest HEC run of defeats too. So to be fair he seemed to polish us up ok (getting out of the group, into the Amlin, twice since then). And Glaws are far far better at the moment than we were back then (during the season that I want to forget).

Gavin Cattle and Darren Daniel...

though of course Daniel has returned now

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Gavin Cattle and Darren Daniel...

though of course Daniel has returned now

Cattle is meant to be a god down at Pirates, very odd. Darren Daniel was a very good player in fairness (just had off pitch issues).

Biltong wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:Nigel davies. Gloucester
Bryan redpath. Sale
Connor oshea. Harlequins
Lyn jones. London welsh
David young. Wasps
Mark mccall. Saracens

Just wanted to point this out as it once again illustrates the dominant influence that celtic rugby is having on northern hemisphere rugby which is good to see.

Scrumdown, you will do your post more justice if you take the total number of teams and compared all the coaches from across all the countries as a comparison.

This doesn't say much.

It does say that50% of theteams in the aviva are coached by celts which is a pretty high proportion.

What does Celts even mean? You are not the same Nation or race!

Ok coaches from the rabo countries.

Fair enough. There are some more decent coaches outside of the AP from England but I accept that we could do with some more at the top level