The Official *England's Journey to Brazil 2014* Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England."
Sir Winston Churchill

Yes, it's nearly that time. Time for England to begin their Qualifying Campaign for the 2014 World Cup in Brazil. Those promising, encouraging, and brave displays witnessed during Euro 2012 will have to be built on as the long road to Brazil starts. Along the way, they will play in London, Podgorica, Kiev, Warsaw, Chisinau and Serravale. The aim is simply to top the group and make it to Brazil with a minimum of fuss.

"Ask any man what nationality he would prefer to be, and ninety nine out of a hundred will tell you that they would prefer to be Englishmen."
Cecil John Rhodes

England have been drawn in Group H with Montengro, Ukraine, Poland, Moldova and San Marino. I don't even need to be insanely optimistic this time round. England will top that group. Moldova and San Marino will be the whipping boys. Montengro, Ukraine and Poland will only prove a challenge in their own ground. Wembley will be deemed a fortress.

"Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first place in the lottery of life."
Cecil John Rhodes

The fixture list for those Qualifiers is the following:

Moldova v England (7th September 2012)
England v Ukraine (11th September 2012)
England v San Marino (12th October 2012)
Poland v England (16th October 2012)
San Marino v England (22nd March 2013)
Montenegro v England (26th March 2013)
England v Moldova (6th September 2013)
Ukraine v England (10th September 2013)
England v Montenegro (11th October 2013)
England v Poland (15th October 2013)

Lovely, simple, finishing with a Wembley double-header. I predict we'll get 28 out of 30 points, perhaps getting a draw in either Warsaw or Kiev.

"Follow your spirit; and upon this charge,
Cry "God for Harry! England and Saint George"."
William Shakespeare

Of course, while England's fate will be defined by those 10 games, the ever important International Friendly will hone the team against more quality opposition. The friendlies currently scheduled are:

Italy v England (15th August 2012)
Sweden v England (14th November 2012)
England v Scotland (14th August 2013)

So let's get the England train rolling, starting on Wednesday, build up momentum before landing in Brazil in nearly 2 years time. Come on England!

“The English are so filled with their own greatness and have won so many big victories that they have come to believe they cannot lose. In battle they are the most confident nation in the world."
Unknown

[sportform]

I would be very surprised if Andros Townsend is playing first team football for Spurs come 2014 with Aaron Lennon to come back and the likes of Eriksen, Lamela, Chadli etc settling in.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I would be very surprised if Andros Townsend is playing first team football for Spurs come 2014 with Aaron Lennon to come back and the likes of Eriksen, Lamela, Chadli etc settling in.

To be fair he's better than Lennon (who is just awful), and Chadli doesn't exactly look like he's gonna set the world alight.

He's in possession of the shirt atm, and if he can keep this sort of form up, he'll be in possession for a lot longer.

I personally think Baines should start LB. This isn't a slight on Cole, who is a wonderful player, but Baines is the best LB in the country. His defending can be a little shoddy at times, but he's improved massively there, and he's just such an attacking threat not only from open play but set pieces too. But it's certainly not a bad problem to have!!!

[mystiroakey]

So we are there! Now for the 8 months of slowly building us up as world beaters. By the time England kick off their first game in Brazil, the games will just be a formality before we lift the cup in the Maracana.

On another note, I can't have this talk of playing Leighton Baines ahead of Ashley Cole. Just plain nonsense. Ok Baines is good going forward but he plays in defence and I want first and foremost for the left back to be the best defender.

I would rather have Cole vs Ronaldo, Navas, Hazard, Muller, Robben etc than Baines anytime.

Ok do we need the sarchastic hyperboyle so soon dude.

In regards to Baines and Cole. It's so tough. One us a great defender one is great going forward with a cross that is sexy..

Baines could play as a full on winger.. anyway it's a good problem to have and will be based on opposition.

[mystiroakey]

I would be very surprised if Andros Townsend is playing first team football for Spurs come 2014 with Aaron Lennon to come back and the likes of Eriksen, Lamela, Chadli etc settling in.

I don't think that is based on anything that we have seen so far dude ... We can't ask for more.I can see him lighting up the prem.

[Duty281]

Right let's have a sing-song:

Talk about football coming home,
And then two nights in London,
We were strong, we had grown.
And now I see:
Gerrard ready for war,
Wazza good as before,
Sturridge certain to score,
And Hodgson dancing!
3 Lions on the shirt,
Jules Rimet still gleaming,
No more years of hurt,
No more need for dreaming!

[Duty281]

And has anyone seen how quiet this part of the forum is when England do well? Look how long the thread is on the 0-0 in Kiev, and compare it to the threads over the last few days.

[dummy_half]

Duty
Pretty much agree with your ratings of the two halves - decent to good performance overall and we were the better side for most of it, but got a bit tight in the second half and conceded possession too cheaply on occasion and got a bit out-run in midfield (lack of pace covering back with Gerrard, Carrick or Lampard). Better finishing, especially in the first half, would have seen it being quite comfortable. Occasionally we looked to try and make one pass too many rather than taking a shot, but at least we were getting into good positions.

Thought Townsend again gave us a great 'out' - he just needs to work out when to run the ball and when to pass a little more. When discussing him v Walcott, don't forget Oxlade-Chamberlain as well, who is possibly the best footballer of the three.

I'd change the odd point or two round from Henman Bill's ratings - Carrick down to a 5, Sturridge up to a 6.

Welbeck is a difficult one - works very hard and to good effect, but lacks a little quality in his passing and finishing (early candidate for miss of the season). His playing narrow left plenty of space for Baines (outstanding first half, faded out of the game later) to cause problems, but sometimes left the area around the D a bit too crowded.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Duty
Pretty much agree with your ratings of the two halves - decent to good performance overall and we were the better side for most of it, but got a bit tight in the second half and conceded possession too cheaply on occasion and got a bit out-run in midfield (lack of pace covering back with Gerrard, Carrick or Lampard). Better finishing, especially in the first half, would have seen it being quite comfortable. Occasionally we looked to try and make one pass too many rather than taking a shot, but at least we were getting into good positions.

Thought Townsend again gave us a great 'out' - he just needs to work out when to run the ball and when to pass a little more. When discussing him v Walcott, don't forget Oxlade-Chamberlain as well, who is possibly the best footballer of the three.

I'd change the odd point or two round from Henman Bill's ratings - Carrick down to a 5, Sturridge up to a 6.

Welbeck is a difficult one - works very hard and to good effect, but lacks a little quality in his passing and finishing (early candidate for miss of the season). His playing narrow left plenty of space for Baines (outstanding first half, faded out of the game later) to cause problems, but sometimes left the area around the D a bit too crowded.

Spot on for me Dummy_Half. Especially on Welbeck/Baines dynamic.

[mystiroakey]

Welbeck imo had a good game..  I think everyone looks at the money plays rather than the actually work rate of a player.

This game was about winning and winning only. He certainly played his part. and i would not rank him or sturridge as the worst. I would have to say that overall smalling was the weakest link, however sturridge and welbeck are there to score and they didn't threaten in that regard yet did have plenty of chances- so they failed in that role, but they played their parts once rooney scored.

[Duty281]

If Welbeck improved his finishing, he'd be a bloody brilliant footballer. He's got a lovely touch, good strength, decent pace, but there's no finish! I imagine Moyes and Hodgson tear their hair out at times.

As for Oxlade, we'll have to see how he comes back from his injury, and if he gets much football for Arsenal. All we've seen thus far is glimpses, and little sparks of his potential. Nothing full-blown as yet, but there's plenty of time.

[Henman Bill]

Would definately take Cole at his peak over Leighton Baines. Question is whether 32-year old Cole, 33 next year, is still at his peak.

Lennon and Walcott seemed to peak early and never take their game to the next level. At the moment Townsend is ahead, with higher potential.

Things can change during the season however.

Anyway who to play as number 9 is the key question. Please god not Rooney up front on his own against top sides.

We are so weak for a number 9 compared to the mid to late 90s. Remember the days when we had players like Les Ferdinand, Robbie Fowler or Ian Wright or Andy Cole, as the 3rd or 4th choice! Any one of those would walk into today's team.

[mystiroakey]

yep we had loads of strikers...

its a shame that position.

Sadly the first players to get bought from abroad is strikers.

Maybe MURRAY WILL COME GOOD IN TIME:yahoo:

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Henry Winter has just written an article on the squad for next year. You can make up a squad of his choosing from what he's written. The notable names missing are Wilshere, Milner, Lambert and Lampard, but I think Wilshere is an accidental omission as he doesn't mention leaving him out like he does with others.

(Kind of) Henry Winter's World Cup squad:

Hart, Ruddy, Foster.
Walker, Johnson, Cahill, Jagielka, Jones, Smalling, Baines, Cole.
Gerrard, Carrick, Barkley, Morrison, Ox, Walcott, Townsend.
Rooney, Welbeck, Carroll, Sturridge, Defoe

[Henman Bill]

Not sure about miss of the season contender from Wellbeck. The ball, his body and the goal were in the wrong position. When it's dead in front of you it's natural to go wide, and he was under pressure. It was a bad miss, but not that bad.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Henry Winter has just written an article on the squad for next year. You can make up a squad of his choosing from what he's written. The notable names missing are Wilshere, Milner, Lambert and Lampard, but I think Wilshere is an accidental omission as he doesn't mention leaving him out like he does with others.

(Kind of) Henry Winter's World Cup squad:

Hart, Ruddy, Foster.
Walker, Johnson, Cahill, Jagielka, Jones, Smalling, Baines, Cole.
Gerrard, Carrick, Barkley, Morrison, Ox, Walcott, Townsend.
Rooney, Welbeck, Carroll, Sturridge, Defoe

I'd take Carroll out altogether put Wilshere in. Depending on form with Lambert/Defoe/Carroll for the last striker spot. I'm not sure Ox is gonna get the gametime to make a push tbh, so would imagine Milner in for him (or maybe a Zaha/Redmond?)

[Duty281]

Well for the no.9 spot, playing just ahead of Rooney we have a choice of:

Sturridge - Currently the preferred man.
Defoe - Bit past it, but a great scoring record.
Welbeck -Has played there before. May need to work on his finishing.
Carroll - A big man for the big occasion. Will have to make a fantastic comeback from injury to be in contention.
Walcott - Wants to play there, and with Townsend at no.7 he may have his perfect chance.
Lambert - Will always have that August game v Scotland.

Er any more? Stick with Sturridge for now.

[sportform]

Aaron Lennon was 12th best in the PL last year on assists and 13th best on key passes (20+ games). In Andros Townsend's last 18 PL games he has just 2 goals and 1 assist. Ok he runs with ball and scored for England but so have SWP, Adam Johnson, Ashley Young, Lennon.

Walcott has more assists in the PL than any other player since the last world cup.

[mystiroakey]

milner is probably guaranteed a spot as the utility player. But i would love to see a couple of the under 21's in the squad

[NickisBHAFC]

Can someone name me a better England performance in recent years?

We were pure class tonight, superb. Townsend looks A LOT better than Walcott on the wing for England he was awesome. Gerrard and Carrick bossed it in the middle. Should of taken our chances yes, but good defending and goalkeeping by Poland.

Amazing win bring on the world cup!!!! Already buzzing for going mental in the pub, with beer getting poured everywhere!!!!

Keep that team for the world cup i say! Maybe Walker or Jenkinson at RB.

[Duty281]

I'd still go with Walcott over Townsend, but there's still a lot of the season to go before we get to June. I think Walcott will have more gametime, and (obviously) more Champions League minutes, so that'll swing it for him.

Townsend will be a brilliant option off the bench though for tight games.

[sportform]

Well for the no.9 spot, playing just ahead of Rooney we have a choice of:

Sturridge - Currently the preferred man.
Defoe - Bit past it, but a great scoring record.
Welbeck -Has played there before. May need to work on his finishing.
Carroll - A big man for the big occasion. Will have to make a fantastic comeback from injury to be in contention.
Walcott - Wants to play there, and with Townsend at no.7 he may have his perfect chance.
Lambert - Will always have that August game v Scotland.

Er any more? Stick with Sturridge for now.

Unless someone has a great run before the world cup, I would expect a fit Sturridge to be playing even if he could have shown better in the last two games. I would love to see Walcott playing there, on the shoulder of the last defender. That would instantly force defences back and create room for Rooney. Defenders would be catching him on through balls. But because we are English and he is quick and small, we stick him on the wing.

[mystiroakey]

Can someone name me a better England performance in recent years?

We were pure class tonight, superb. Townsend looks A LOT better than Walcott on the wing for England he was awesome. Gerrard and Carrick bossed it in the middle. Should of taken our chances yes, but good defending and goalkeeping by Poland.

Amazing win bring on the world cup!!!! Already buzzing for going mental in the pub, with beer getting poured everywhere!!!!

Keep that team for the world cup i say! Maybe Walker or Jenkinson at RB.

you are making me jealous dude. You are too drunk and too young to remember when england actually played ok every game!

[sportform]

If Townsend is still in the frame come June, England could go something like:-

...............Gerrard.....Wilshere

.......Walcott.....Rooney.....Townsend

.....................Sturridge

[Nakatomi Plaza]

Duty
Pretty much agree with your ratings of the two halves - decent to good performance overall and we were the better side for most of it, but got a bit tight in the second half and conceded possession too cheaply on occasion and got a bit out-run in midfield (lack of pace covering back with Gerrard, Carrick or Lampard). Better finishing, especially in the first half, would have seen it being quite comfortable. Occasionally we looked to try and make one pass too many rather than taking a shot, but at least we were getting into good positions.

Thought Townsend again gave us a great 'out' - he just needs to work out when to run the ball and when to pass a little more. When discussing him v Walcott, don't forget Oxlade-Chamberlain as well, who is possibly the best footballer of the three.

I'd change the odd point or two round from Henman Bill's ratings - Carrick down to a 5, Sturridge up to a 6.

Welbeck is a difficult one - works very hard and to good effect, but lacks a little quality in his passing and finishing (early candidate for miss of the season). His playing narrow left plenty of space for Baines (outstanding first half, faded out of the game later) to cause problems, but sometimes left the area around the D a bit too crowded.

Always enjoy reading your thoughts DH. Agree with pretty much all of this. My main issue with Welbeck is he never seems to want to do the easy thing, he'll take a touch too many which tends to slow down the play. He's got plenty of ability but needs to improve his decision making drastically.

[mystiroakey]

If Townsend is still in the frame come June, England could go something like:-

...............Gerrard.....Wilshere

.......Walcott.....Rooney.....Townsend

.....................Sturridge

which is a great side, i cant think of a better option.

[Duty281]

We'll still have quite a few friendlies to get the selection right. Two in November I think, one in February/March, and two right before the world cup.

And we'll go to the world cup the same as any other major tournament. Not favourites, but contenders. With a bit of luck (we're due some aren't we!), no injuries, and a few players hitting form, we may just go all the way.

[mystiroakey]

Its a shame we won't get a top seed- but deffo in the second pot..


we were 17th before the last two games and you would have thought we will now go down to about 11th

[Henman Bill]

Sturridge - Poor performances in these 2 games despite being in great club form.
Defoe - He needs to get into the Spurs team for Premiership games.
Welbeck - Good player but not sure if he is an out an out no 9.
Carroll - Overrated player that had at least 1 great season, but probably not international class.
Walcott - Not sure he even counts as a no 9, rarely finishes well in a clean through situation.
Lambert - Is he really that great?

None of them really convince me, but it'll come down to who has the best season or who is in the best form at the time.

[Duty281]

97,000 applications for tickets from England fans already.

Much prefer the noise England fans make at away games, rather than the prawn sandwich brigade at Club Wembley.

[mystiroakey]

henman . lambert scores goals. what more do you really want from a striker?

[TopoftheChops]

As if Redmond actually got booed when he came on. Classy Ip5w1ch fans

LOL

[Henman Bill]

Second pot just means Europe, for those that don't know. Only the first pot is done on ranking/points/stature, after that it is just regional.

[Henman Bill]

97,000 applications for tickets from England fans already.

Much prefer the noise England fans make at away games, rather than the prawn sandwich brigade at Club Wembley.

What's your source for this?

[mystiroakey]

is it - damm..

the annoying thing is we could get to 1080 pts after this - 8th at the moment is brazil on less than that- however other results have happened and brazil get an auto spot anyway!

[Henman Bill]

henman . lambert scores goals. what more do you really want from a striker?

-For most of his career not even good enough to play in the top league.
-One season with 15 premiership goals and we're supposed to get excited - I can remember the years of Kevin Philips, Shearer, Cole, Fowler getting about 30 goals in their best seasons. Can Lambert even repeat a 15 goal season?

Don't get me wrong it's a great story of his and he is a good player. But not exactly going to have Italian and German defences running scared.

[mystiroakey]

i dont think anyone is excited about lambert- but we stuck him in in the other two games and he scored- thats it. We have no one cementing that spot yet- but based on the strikers we have played within the last month for england- he has actually been the best!

[mystiroakey]

Its a shame glen murray hasn't been fit tbh(yes i am probably a bit biased)

but he scored 31 last year  in the champs but sadly he is injured at the moment

[mystiroakey]

And tbh lets just cross our fingers for sturridge , he is actually a decent striker and if he continues his form he will probably get past 20 goals this season

[Champagne_Socialist]

perfect qualification campaign from england. Unbeeaten with a goal difference of +27 scored 31 conceded 4, pretty impressive.

[dummy_half]

Sturridge - Poor performances in these 2 games despite being in great club form.
Defoe - He needs to get into the Spurs team for Premiership games.
Welbeck - Good player but not sure if he is an out an out no 9.
Carroll - Overrated player that had at least 1 great season, but probably not international class.
Walcott - Not sure he even counts as a no 9, rarely finishes well in a clean through situation.
Lambert - Is he really that great?

None of them really convince me, but it'll come down to who has the best season or who is in the best form at the time.

I don't think Sturridge has been poor, just not as good as for Liverpool. Seems to be the one who is struggling to find space when the two wide men cut inside. Still looks the most likely foil for Rooney.

Defoe will probably make the squad on the grounds that if we need a goal from off the bench, he's the most likely.

Welbeck - Agree he isn't really a 9 at the moment, and is unlikely to get much game time there for Man U. Does a decent job as a left wing / attacker but I still have some reservations about him there.

Carroll - has the potential to be a real handful, although I suspect international refs might not like his style, and hasn't lived up to early promise since leaving Newcastle.

Walcott - will be in the squad if fit, but mainly as a wide right player who can move inside rather than a genuine centre forward.

Lambert - I like as a player, and is probably the best of the options playing back to goal, but lacks pace to get the better of really high class defenders. Would necessitate a change in style to get the best out of him.

Overall, the cupboard is a bit bare of centre forwards. As others have pointed out, the top teams mainly look abroad for their goal scorers as 'marquee' name players, which is limiting opportunities for younger players (hell, even Lukaku can't get game time for Chelsea, and he's a million times better than any of our options)..

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I guess if he gets going, Gary Hooper could be an outside shout

[Henman Bill]

The FIFA rankings are dumb.
http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtable/index.html
What are Chile, Russia, Switzerland, USA and Greece doing ahead of us? Bosnia only one place below. L16 in the last world cup puts us somewhere in the rank 9-16 (say 12th). QF at the euros puts us someone around 5-8 in Europe, so 6-12 in the world (say 10th). 17th looks low to me.

I think Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain and Holland clearly should be seeded. Not sure I need to justify any of those.

The others are debatable, but I would probably have Uruguay if they qualify, (world cup semi final and Copa American champion).

The last one I would be tempted to have Portugal because they tend to outperform England at major tournaments and had semi final at the last euros and last 16 at the last world cup, and only lost to Spain.

[mystiroakey]

The FIFA rankings are dumb.
http://www.fifa.com/worldranking/rankingtable/index.html
What are Chile, Russia, Switzerland, USA and Greece doing ahead of us? Bosnia only one place below. L16 in the last world cup puts us somewhere in the rank 9-16 (say 12th). QF at the euros puts us someone around 5-8 in Europe, so 6-12 in the world (say 10th). 17th looks low to me.

I think Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Italy, Spain and Holland clearly should be seeded. Not sure I need to justify any of those.

The others are debatable, but I would probably have Uruguay if they qualify, (world cup semi final and Copa American champion).

The last one I would be tempted to have Portugal because they tend to outperform England at major tournaments and had semi final at the last euros and last 16 at the last world cup, and only lost to Spain.

we will go down to 11th at the very worst Henman after these two,

Its annoying because i reckon all it would have taken was a win in ukraine as well and that would have been enough to get us in the top 7.


portugal aren't in the cup yet!!! they need to play a play off game to get through! if they meet ukraine then i am not sure they will even make it

[Henman Bill]

In reality Belgium and Colombia might make it instead of Holland and Portugal, but we will have to wait for the next rankings to confirm.

Colombia for me I don't see how to justify. Didn't qualify for the last world cup and lost in the Copa America quarter final to Peru.

Belgium - failed to qualify for the last world cup, failed to qualify for the euros either.

I think they give too much weight to friendlies, recent form, qualifiers etc. You never know who really is a big team until they've proved it at a tournament.

France of course have no chance. Long gone are the days of 1998/2000 when they were world beaters.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'd take Carroll, the guy is a quality player. Underrated by many, I think he's a hell of an option off the bench. More so than Lambert because he's so dominant. I would wonder whether you either don't take Johnson cos Smalling/Jones could cover right back or don't take Ox. Maybe not Defoe either as England have enough options. Morrison and Barkley would be my young picks.

Walcott and Welbeck just ahead of me in the team over Townsend right now. When Theo is on it he is unplayable and will score more than Townsend, but there's time yet for that role to swap.

[Henman Bill]

portugal aren't in the cup yet!!! they need to play a play off game to get through! if they meet ukraine then i am not sure they will even make it

If Portugal don't make it I think I would rate England above teams like Belgium and Uruguay that haven't even qualified for major tournaments recently. Well that's how it ought to be, but it won't be.

[Henman Bill]

Second pot just means Europe, for those that don't know. Only the first pot is done on ranking/points/stature, after that it is just regional.

Actually, I should add that there are 13 Europeans teams. Normally we would see 5-6 of those seeded however this year there is a chance of only 4 European teams being seeded, which means the lowest ranked European team might have to go into pot 3. Don't think that will be England though.

[mystiroakey]

no it certainly won't be england. 

but it could be france

and i wouldn't wont a group of spain france and england!

[Duty281]

97,000 applications for tickets from England fans already.

Much prefer the noise England fans make at away games, rather than the prawn sandwich brigade at Club Wembley.

What's your source for this?

The BBC sport website mentioned it.

[lorus59]

7 teams in the European groups went through unbeaten. So there is a lot of dross in Europe too.

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