How quickly the memory fades

If one were to simply read the comments (by many) on this site and others you could be confused into thinking that KP is a one man team who single handedly dragged England by the scruff of the neck to the top of the test rankings. Seemed funny to me, particulary as from my memory it was a team effort and if anything it was the bowlers who should take a large share of the credit.

I went back to the start of 2009 which was fairly arbitrary but a reasonable period and found the following:

- Our three regular bowlers Swann, Anderson and Broad are the top wicket takers in the world over that period
- Out of our five regular batsmen over that time the highest average is held by Bell (57), then Cook (54), Trott (51), KP (48) and then Strauss (40)

In my wierd and totally unscientific world of rankings then I would rank the mainstay of our team in terms of importance as:

1) Swann (Most wickets)
2) Anderson (Second most wickets)
3) Broad (Third most wickets and some runs)
4) Bell (Highest averaging batsman)
5) Cook (2nd highest averaging batsman)
6) Trott (3rd highest averaging batsman)
7) KP (4th highest averaging batsman)
8) Strauss (5th highest averaging batsman)

Out of the regulars that misses out Prior who has been outstanding over that period and some could argue the best in the world so he should probably slot in somewhere near the top. Plus Strauss as captain has shouldered a lot of responsibility in getting us to where we are so maybe he should move up a place or two. Hmm I'm afraid this bumps our friend KP down to the least important member of the team in terms of our rise to No1. Shouldn't be missed today then!

(Please take this article for what it is. A bit of a laugh with an undercurrent of 'other people were there too KP'.

Of course its a team game and the team has done exceptionally well. Personally i dont like to rate players as to their individual standings in a team, i feel that all are as important as eachother and all have played an integral part in Englands success.

eirebilly wrote:Of course its a team game and the team has done exceptionally well. Personally i dont like to rate players as to their individual standings in a team, i feel that all are as important as eachother and all have played an integral part in Englands success.

That's kind of the point and it's an impossible thing to rank. A few carefully chosen statistics to show that this was more than a one man team was all that was intended!

Fairy nuff

Good work, nice to see a well thought out article. However, KP has been a very big part, scoring double centuries in Australia and at home to India to set up winning positions.

We would be 2-0 really if it wasn't for that display at Headingly, let's not forget that. I for one am not trying to defend KP, what he did was just plain wrong, Strauss looked a broken man at the press conference yesterday, a man who had been stabbed in the back by one of his own team mates and to the players who you are playing for crying out loud.

Its just a shame really. Ok, i'm sure England players have slagged KP off plenty of times, almost certain. We all do it in our respective teams: 'God Frank is being a right c*ck today' or something, but he's crossed the line and in fairness, there's no way you could go into a test match of this importance with a man who has done what he has done.

You could also look at all of KP's knocks other than those couple of doubles that he scored against an Australia without Warne and Mcgrath and a below average Indian bowling unit. The rest of his big scores other than the last hundred came against Lanka without Murali and Vaas and West Indies without Holding, Roberts, Walsh and Ambrose!. Otherwise he has been pretty pathetic and should have been dropped long ago. The only decent show from Pietersen worthy of being mentioned here is the last match where he somehow managed to score some runs against a semi-decent attack and emerged as England's best bowler!.
All that Pietersen can do now is to greatfully retire, thanking the team management for all the love and understanding they showed over the years, and an undeserved opportunity to go away on a high.

msp83 wrote:You could also look at all of KP's knocks other than those couple of doubles that he scored against an Australia without Warne and Mcgrath and a below average Indian bowling unit. The rest of his big scores other than the last hundred came against Lanka without Murali and Vaas and West Indies without Holding, Roberts, Walsh and Ambrose!. Otherwise he has been pretty pathetic and should have been dropped long ago. The only decent show from Pietersen worthy of being mentioned here is the last match where he somehow managed to score some runs against a semi-decent attack and emerged as England's best bowler!.
All that Pietersen can do now is to greatfully retire, thanking the team management for all the love and understanding they showed over the years, and an undeserved opportunity to go away on a high.

Should have been dropped long ago with a Test Average of nearly 50?

Toadfish wrote:If one were to simply read the comments (by many) on this site and others you could be confused into thinking that KP is a one man team who single handedly dragged England by the scruff of the neck to the top of the test rankings. Seemed funny to me, particulary as from my memory it was a team effort and if anything it was the bowlers who should take a large share of the credit.

I went back to the start of 2009 which was fairly arbitrary but a reasonable period and found the following:

- Our three regular bowlers Swann, Anderson and Broad are the top wicket takers in the world over that period
- Out of our five regular batsmen over that time the highest average is held by Bell (57), then Cook (54), Trott (51), KP (48) and then Strauss (40)

In my wierd and totally unscientific world of rankings then I would rank the mainstay of our team in terms of importance as:

1) Swann (Most wickets)
2) Anderson (Second most wickets)
3) Broad (Third most wickets and some runs)
4) Bell (Highest averaging batsman)
5) Cook (2nd highest averaging batsman)
6) Trott (3rd highest averaging batsman)
7) KP (4th highest averaging batsman)
8) Strauss (5th highest averaging batsman)

Out of the regulars that misses out Prior who has been outstanding over that period and some could argue the best in the world so he should probably slot in somewhere near the top. Plus Strauss as captain has shouldered a lot of responsibility in getting us to where we are so maybe he should move up a place or two. Hmm I'm afraid this bumps our friend KP down to the least important member of the team in terms of our rise to No1. Shouldn't be missed today then!

(Please take this article for what it is. A bit of a laugh with an undercurrent of 'other people were there too KP'.

Brilliant. Produce a lovely set of stats to make a point, then insert Prior into the 'Table of Greatness' to push KP down a bit, without statistical backup. Quality. Is Bill Frindle your Uncle?

Duty281 wrote:

msp83 wrote:You could also look at all of KP's knocks other than those couple of doubles that he scored against an Australia without Warne and Mcgrath and a below average Indian bowling unit. The rest of his big scores other than the last hundred came against Lanka without Murali and Vaas and West Indies without Holding, Roberts, Walsh and Ambrose!. Otherwise he has been pretty pathetic and should have been dropped long ago. The only decent show from Pietersen worthy of being mentioned here is the last match where he somehow managed to score some runs against a semi-decent attack and emerged as England's best bowler!.
All that Pietersen can do now is to greatfully retire, thanking the team management for all the love and understanding they showed over the years, and an undeserved opportunity to go away on a high.

Should have been dropped long ago with a Test Average of nearly 50?

Pietersen averages 50 in test matches? Surely that should be inflated with all the cheap runs that he might have scored against weak opposition. Other than the big scores that he made at times, his record has to be pathetic, and that's why it is universaly acknowledged that every other player who played for England in the last 10 years including greats such as Darren Pattinson have made far greater contributions to England becoming the number 1 side in all formats.

msp83 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

msp83 wrote:You could also look at all of KP's knocks other than those couple of doubles that he scored against an Australia without Warne and Mcgrath and a below average Indian bowling unit. The rest of his big scores other than the last hundred came against Lanka without Murali and Vaas and West Indies without Holding, Roberts, Walsh and Ambrose!. Otherwise he has been pretty pathetic and should have been dropped long ago. The only decent show from Pietersen worthy of being mentioned here is the last match where he somehow managed to score some runs against a semi-decent attack and emerged as England's best bowler!.
All that Pietersen can do now is to greatfully retire, thanking the team management for all the love and understanding they showed over the years, and an undeserved opportunity to go away on a high.

Should have been dropped long ago with a Test Average of nearly 50?

Pietersen averages 50 in test matches? Surely that should be inflated with all the cheap runs that he might have scored against weak opposition. Other than the big scores that he made at times, his record has to be pathetic, and that's why it is universaly acknowledged that every other player who played for England in the last 10 years including greats such as Darren Pattinson have made far greater contributions to England becoming the number 1 side in all formats.

49.48 to be exact. You can only play what's in front of you and KP has made centuries against every Test Nation bar Bangladesh which includes:

Average of 52.71, 1 double century and 2 centuries v the Aussies
Average of 62.15, 1 double century and 4 centuries v the Indians
Average of 45.38 and 3 centuries v the Saffers

Weak opposition?

Duty mate he's pulling your pudd! How could KP have faced a Windies line-up of Holding, Roberts, Ambrose & Walsh?

Of course Duty, Kevin Pietersen is England's best batter by some way. My comment was a response to the kind of disgraceful treatment he's ben subjected to. Pietersen made mistakes, some pretty silly and big ones at that, but the powers that be that are humiliating him have no moral ground to stand on. He's been undervalued and slided by many supporters as well.