Most overrated players

Think of the most overrated players you have ever seen and share them.
I cannot stand when a player is massively overrated and gets credit all the time despite the fact they have done little to deserve it.

Many come to mind but I'm sure you guys have some that just make your skin crawl.

Mike Ross; Leinster & Ireland prop.

Staggy

Last night I was watching Peter Borlase playing, he's pretty over rated.

I would have said Donnocha O'Callaghan, John Hayes and despite the potential attack I might get when I reveal the next guy............. oh I'll just say it, Courtney Lawes. He dosent hit people his own size, stop saying he gives out widow making hits. He only hits people who have the number 9 -15 on they're back and when they are at a stand still waiting for a high ball. Okay thats better.

Auckland, I don't think anyone rates Peter Borlase. Certainly nobody I have heard.

Who is Peter Borlase?

Who is Accrington Stanley?

Exactly, do you get the correlation

David Pocock. One dimensional player, who can easily be shut down. Only dominant if the oppostional lets him whilst the ref is having a shocker

Definitely agree with Courtney Lawes. Worst 2nd row in England.

Lydiate can be overhyped from time to time, wouldn't say he's overated though. Bradley Davies, not tough enough and has to many brain implosions after being heralded as our boiler room saviour.

Sorry but GAV springs to mind.

rainbow-warrior wrote:Sorry but GAV springs to mind.

Don't apologise - one kick, one tackle & a lot of fluff & nonsense.

Sorry Leinster fans, but it has to be Cean Healy (spelling) for me and sorry to Leicester fans, but Dan Cole is very over hyped as well. The amount of Lions first 15 threads I have with those two as startes is beggars belief. I am not saying they are'nt good players, they are just not the world wide superstars some of the people from their respective countries think they are.

Those two really surprise me Dowlais. I certainly think highly of both of them. Why do you think they are so over rated.

Morgannwg wrote:Definitely agree with Courtney Lawes. Worst 2nd row in England.
Lydiate can be overhyped from time to time, wouldn't say he's overated though. Bradley Davies, not tough enough and has to many brain implosions after being heralded as our boiler room saviour.

Don't be ridiculous. He's not world class and funnily enough I haven't heard him touted as the Messiah either, but the worst second row in England? Tosh.

Gavin Henson surely takes the crown as the most over-rated.

I have to disagree with you their too LordDowlais. Cian Healy for me is superb. He's awesome around the pitch, better than our own Gethin Jenkins (maybe Gethin is the better tackle jackal) in that respect as he is that bit quicker and is often found on the shoulder of the backs as a support runner. In the scrum I'm not sure if there's much in it. From memory Cian isn't the most destructive of loose heads, but Gethin isn't either. In fact I think he's a fairly poor prop. The reason I compare the two is that Gethin is often mentioned in the Lions threads that you have highlighted too. For me they are similar, with Cian Healy edging in front of Gethin. Both very good though.

Dan Cole is also very good. An excellent scrummager. What more can you ask from your tighthead?

Parisse. He only gets his hands on the ball so often because he's lazy and hangs back on the wings returning kicks.

Hartley - touted as a running hooker yet rarely gets over the gain line as he's so overweight and slow. Could use some help on his scrummaging technique as well.

Strettle - seriously?

Patterson - old ground for me, but he was powder puff useless, other than kicking goals. Whoopee.

Mike Phillips - bad service, poor passer. Yet Gatland thinks he's the best thing since..... because he's over 6 feet and 16 stone.

Griff wrote:I have to disagree with you their too LordDowlais. Cian Healy for me is superb. He's awesome around the pitch, better than our own Gethin Jenkins (maybe Gethin is the better tackle jackal) in that respect as he is that bit quicker and is often found on the shoulder of the backs as a support runner. In the scrum I'm not sure if there's much in it. From memory Cian isn't the most destructive of loose heads, but Gethin isn't either. In fact I think he's a fairly poor prop. The reason I compare the two is that Gethin is often mentioned in the Lions threads that you have highlighted too. For me they are similar, with Cian Healy edging in front of Gethin. Both very good though.

Dan Cole is also very good. An excellent scrummager. What more can you ask from your tighthead?

I certainly don't remember anybody hyping him up either. Cole is a very good scrummager and is improving steadily.

Chris Ashton, Dan Lydiate, Toby Faletau, Keith Earls and Ben Youngs spring to mind straight away.

Not bad players by any stretch, and no shortage of talent there, but so far the actual substance doesn't come close to matching some of the hype around these guys.

Matt Banahan on the other hand just isn't very good....

red_stag wrote:Those two really surprise me Dowlais. I certainly think highly of both of them. Why do you think they are so over rated.

Stag, it's not that I do not think they are any good, but from what I have seen, Cain Healy is good in the loose but he is a liability in the scrum, he is o.k against weaker oposition but when up against a decent scrummager he is a liability and a penalty machine, the game against Claremont in the HC springs to mind, yes hes scored a nice try, but he was given the shepherds crook in the second half and Van Der Mewe came on and stregnthen the scrum up before they were penalised out of the game, also Dan cole has done nothing of any note and only has only been playing for a strawberry season and all of a sudden he is the best tighthead in GB and Ireland. Look, they are both young players with a massive future infront of them, and I am sure they will get Lions recognition in years to come, but at the moment they have a lot to prove internationaly and until they do then I will agree that they are not over rated.

Bathmad, have to agree with you on Phillips. The Welsh public, well the ones on here, have been pleading and begging for a different approach at Scrumhalf. One that will get the ball to our talented backs a bit/lot quicker. But we are stuck with Mike Phillips. He does have his uses, but there's lots of competition for the back row already thank you very much!

LordDowlais wrote:Sorry Leinster fans, but it has to be Cean Healy (spelling) for me and sorry to Leicester fans, but Dan Cole is very over hyped as well. The amount of Lions first 15 threads I have with those two as startes is beggars belief. I am not saying they are'nt good players, they are just not the world wide superstars some of the people from their respective countries think they are.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you either misunderstood the thread or are being purposely controversial (and wrong).

Both these players have been excellent and are continuing to improve. They seem to be well respected everywhere (including on these boards) without being overrated.

Courtney Lawes may have been hyped up a tad too much but the comment about him being the worst 2nd row in England by morgannwg was just what we've come to expect really.

rodders wrote:Chris Ashton, Dan Lydiate, Toby Faletau, Keith Earls and Ben Youngs spring to mind straight away.

Not bad players by any stretch, and no shortage of talent there, but so far the actual substance doesn't come close to matching some of the hype around these guys.

Matt Banahan on the other hand just isn't very good....

Certainly can see where you are coming from with this:
Ashton - Burst on to the international scene and was strongly talked up , but has had a moderately disappointing 12 months where the weaknesses in his game have at times out-weighed the positives.

Lydiate - A solid performer at 6, who does all the basics well but is lacking a bit of the stand-out quality that Ferris (for one) has.

Faletau - Promising young 8, but again talked up early on the back of a couple of very good matches that he has struggled a little bit to equal.

Earls - Is definitely not the new BOD, despite the hype. For me, the poorest of the players you named there.

Youngs - Has shown the potential to be an outstanding SH, but is a bit hit and miss still, and seems to benefit strongly from playing along side Flood.

I'd add Owen Farrell to the list - showed good maturity when asked to play 10, but doesn't really spark the back line into life.

A few of the All Blacks are a bit over-rated as well - Nonu and the wingers for me are good to very good players but who benefit from playing in a team with some outstanding players (McCaw, Carter, Conrad Smith), and so get made to look better than they are.


Bananaman - Good club level winger, but nothing more. Struggled to make the step up to international level.

What a load of tosh most people are writing here...

Lydiate player of the 6N,
Falatau top tackler at the world cup,
Healy multiple HC winner, GS winner and certain to tour with lions,
Earls the most utilised player in the NH,
Phillips the lions tourist and try scorer of match winning tries at WC,
Parisse the ball playing 8 on the planet (ps bath if you think an 8 dropping back into a deep kick return position is lazy leave rugby now)
Patterson Lion FB, strong runner, scottish saviour and most accurate close range goal kicker ever.

Firstly all these players have accomplished massively in their careers and are all in or around the top 3/5 players in the world, and secondly none of these players are massively hyped, they all have their fans and their detractors but none have been hailed as messiahs (except patterson maybe but you can understand why in THAT Scottish team)

Henson, hasn't been hyped up since he was 23 or so, and then he was for good reason, you dont win a world player award lightly, noone questions his ability, fitness and attitude definately, but ability? or should I say potential? Dont confuse hype for media attention!

Lawes... WTF are you all talking about, he wasnt hyped at all when he hit the scene, but was a very nice shock for England fans, he is only being hyped now when he's out because the media are watching the other failing lock options, Botha/Parling just dont cut it and people want Lawes back. IMO he could be one of the most usefull locks on the planet.

I will agree with Ashton, after a few very good performances and a clear run/step from his own 22 V Oz he was hailed as changing the way back play was played in the sport... well he went on to great things didn't he! But I'd blame the English media more than rugby community.

I'd put squarely Manu Tuilagi into a similar bracket, all hail an actual centre in England, who has been to date just anothe destructive Samoan in a white shirt, frail defensively and ball tends to get tucked up his jumper. What I will give him is that V SA he was one of the few who impressed for England, and looked like he is starting to show a little nous after all, Ive gone from slating him to being a little excited by the prospect of him being an actual rugby playing centre.

bluesman, you're actually saying something nice about, Manu!?

(falls off chair in shock)

Ye sugar, I have to give credit where its due, V SA at times it seemed like Manu V SA.

As I said, Ive slated his performances until of late, because they were poor, if he performas better I cant ignore it, and he has so I wont.

sugarNspikes wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Sorry Leinster fans, but it has to be Cean Healy (spelling) for me and sorry to Leicester fans, but Dan Cole is very over hyped as well. The amount of Lions first 15 threads I have with those two as startes is beggars belief. I am not saying they are'nt good players, they are just not the world wide superstars some of the people from their respective countries think they are.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you either misunderstood the thread or are being purposely controversial (and wrong).

Both these players have been excellent and are continuing to improve. They seem to be well respected everywhere (including on these boards) without being overrated.

Courtney Lawes may have been hyped up a tad too much but the comment about him being the worst 2nd row in England by morgannwg was just what we've come to expect really.

I do not do purposely controversial, that is your area of expertise.

LordDowlais wrote:

sugarNspikes wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Sorry Leinster fans, but it has to be Cean Healy (spelling) for me and sorry to Leicester fans, but Dan Cole is very over hyped as well. The amount of Lions first 15 threads I have with those two as startes is beggars belief. I am not saying they are'nt good players, they are just not the world wide superstars some of the people from their respective countries think they are.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you either misunderstood the thread or are being purposely controversial (and wrong).

Both these players have been excellent and are continuing to improve. They seem to be well respected everywhere (including on these boards) without being overrated.

Courtney Lawes may have been hyped up a tad too much but the comment about him being the worst 2nd row in England by morgannwg was just what we've come to expect really.

I do not do purposely controversial, that is your area of expertise.

Maybe it's just a coincidence that everyone disagrees with you again

dummy_half wrote: Earls - Is definitely not the new BOD, despite the hype. For me, the poorest of the players you named there.

Who said he is the new BOD - straw man.

As anyone in Ireland knows he is a winger - the only exceptions I know are Kidney and a poster of this board.
He will never be Irelands answer to the 13 shirt

Fair enough if you think that about Nonu and the wingers dummy half. I think we're still in search of a reliable left winger but we'll keep Jane and Nonu if you don't mind. Wouldn't replace those two with any other player. Not saying there are better. I'd love to see JOC play for 12 for NZ or Ioane at 11. But looking at the partnership of Nonu and Smith they complement one another well because they are different players.

For me an overrated player is someone who consistently gets into the team but fails to deliver. Spies for SA is a classic example. He's injured at the moment but when fit somehow manages to earn a spot. That's worse than the Wallaby centres who seem to be there because of injuries.

You can criticise the players who come in and get exposed at test level. Similarly the young players who have a good match and then go off the boil. But if you can find your way into the team on a regular basis and people question why you're there, you're a good chance of being overrated.

As for Cian Healy, the pick of the Irish team to tour NZ for me. Keith Earls had a tour to forget. But so did BOD and quite a few other Irish players.

Kia

I was using 'over-rated' in the sense of having a better reputation than deserved rather than your alternative of players getting picked despite performances. Agree about Spies though - has all the physical attributes of an outstanding 8 but continues to fail to deliver the performances he should be capable of.

My point about the ABs is at least in part that it is easier to look like a World Class player when in a strong team. Don't get me wrong, I think Nonu and the wingers are all easily international quality, but it's just that their reputations are enhanced because they play alongside some truly great players. I think it's almost inevitable though that we look at a great team and think there are 8 or 9 really world class players - I know England supporters look back on the early 2000s team and list the likes of Thompson and Larry Dayglo as World Class, where for me (even as an England fan) I think they were made to look better by the quality of players around them (in particular MJ and Richard Hill, who were both close to being all time greats, not just world class players)

Yeah I get what you mean mate. But I'm not so sure you look like a World Class player when in a strong team. Take Cowan. He never looked any good in the All Blacks. He had Carter outside him and Read at the back of the scrum but I wouldn't call him overrated because no one ever rated him so I guess my criteria don't always stack up either! Personally I think it's easier to stand out like Parisse in a team of average players where results don't really matter. I do take your point though that a team that has achieved a lot isn't necessarily chock full of stars. It is a team game and sometimes you just need players who work well in combination with others rather than having any individual brilliance.

Juan Martin Hernandez
Heinrich Brussouw
Hosea Gear

Hernandez is a superb call. I have always found him to be over rated.

If there's a better winger about than Hosea Gear then I'm yet to see him. The guy is a monster.

dallym wrote:David Pocock. One dimensional player, who can easily be shut down. Only dominant if the oppostional lets him whilst the ref is having a shocker

Wow, that's a shock inclusion. Respect your opinion, but in my views, he's one of the best players in the world. He's had a bad run of games recently, but no one's ever consistently world class for every game.

Digby Ioane, he's just not getting any ball!

A lot of Kiwi's say that Gear goes missing in tight games because of his lack of work rate. Sure he's a monster but you need more than that, that's why he was left out of the WC squad

Gear is actually a good shout. Left wing is still a problem for NZ. Savea is still learning his craft but is one for the future.

He doesn't go missing in the tight games because of his lack of work rate gowales. He goes missing because he is a player who needs space to get up a full head of steam. When he gets up to full speed, then he can crash through players. But close down his space to operate in and he hasn't learned how to create space for himself.

OK yous are right he's useless...send him to Ulster sure....

Mike philips for me. Some posters on here called him the best SH in the world. That was before the summer tours though.

Deal Rodders. You just send us Cian Healy.

Mike Phillips is extremely effective at what he does, which is attack the fringes and pull in defences to create space for the likes of North, Davies and Roberts.

He's been the bane of Ireland for 3 matches running so I wouldn't say hes overrated.

He's a horses for courses pick at scrum half and is unplayable when hes on his game but a liability when he isn't.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Deal Rodders. You just send us Cian Healy.

Feic off hes the only prop in the country!... you can have Earls though....

And Paddy Wallace

Leinster

Hate to say it mate but he is lions 1st choice currently! With the pack full of destructive ball carriers, and Roberts a cert at 12 , oh and a coach who loves the destructive stuff noone else stands achance without a real scorching form!

Gear did have Earls... for breakfast. He spat him out though because he tasted rubbish. Deal's off!

Paddy Wallace. You have to feel for that poor bugger. Holiday in Portugal? No I have a better idea. Let's fly you further than Portugal. Sorry, we don't have any room on the flight back. You'll just have to stay here until you rot and die...

Keith Earls may be a bit harsh, he doesn't live up to the hype for sure but I think in a lot of ways he is a victim of the utility back system. I still don't think we know his best position. Winger probably but he is a pretty decent full back. He is not as good as advertised but solid and a guy you would want in or around the national side.

I think Sexton may be a tad overrated, but we don't get the best out of him in green anyway, he still should start for Ireland and Leinster

thebluesmancometh wrote:Leinster

Hate to say it mate but he is lions 1st choice currently! With the pack full of destructive ball carriers, and Roberts a cert at 12 , oh and a coach who loves the destructive stuff noone else stands achance without a real scorching form!

Oh, great. So we're not goint to fare any better than Wales did in the summer tour. This thread is really depressing me!

Let's hope Gatts etc are more savvy than you think, bluesman.

Fair better? Wales were underprepared, and without a coach. They went to Aus as favourites (IMO anyway) and were proved to be rusty as 3 of the first 15 hadn't played for nearly a season, 5 of the team were carrying injuries.

IMO Howley made a balls up with his selection, took a player off his honeymoon injured, flew him to Oz and never played him, started Warburton who had no rugby under his belt at all this year, and tried to force a gameplan that suited the weakened Oz side.

I honestly beleive if I were in charge we wouldve won the first test as a minimum!!!

Thomond wrote:Keith Earls may be a bit harsh, he doesn't live up to the hype for sure but I think in a lot of ways he is a victim of the utility back system. I still don't think we know his best position. Winger probably but he is a pretty decent full back. He is not as good as advertised but solid and a guy you would want in or around the national side.

I agree with that, he is a valuable guy to have in and around the national side but his ongoing 1st XV status is not in proportion with his actual performances, nor is some of the praise he gets from a lot of the Irish media and pundits.

He's a good player who hasn't really delivered on his early promise for various reasons but rather than paper over this with spin I think coaches, selectors and the media should acknowledge this to help Earls fulfill his potential.

He has a few kinks but they are fixable, he should not be a starter for Ireland at the moment

It may shock some posters to know that a player can be both very good and over-rated. There are ludicrous amounts of hype around some players. Saying you don’t think it’s warranted is not that same as saying you think they’re useless.

sugarNspikes wrote: You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you either misunderstood the thread or are being purposely controversial (and wrong).

That's the ticket. Brook no dissent. What do these people think this is, some kind of public forum for non-expert, partisan rugby fans to discuss opnions?