Champions League Group Stage Draw

First topic message reminder :

Starts at 16.45

As a refresher (this is from memory), 8 groups of 4 teams, each team in a group is selected from a pot. No team can be drawn against one from the same country, and only 2 teams from 1 country can be drawn in groups A-D and E-H for scheduling reasons

The Pots:
Pot One: Chelsea, Barcelona, Manchester United, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Arsenal, Porto, AC Milan.
Pot Two: Valencia, Benfica, Shakhtar Donetsk, Zenit St Petersburg, Schalke, Manchester City, Braga, Dynamo Kiev.
Pot Three: Olympiakos, Ajax, Anderlecht, Juventus, Spartak Moscow, Paris St Germain, Lille, Galatasaray.
Pot Four: Celtic, Borussia Dortmund, BATE Borisov, Dinamo Zagreb, CFR Cluj, Malaga, Montpellier, FC Nordsjaelland.

Man City being the only PL team to miss out on Pot 1

Best case scenario for the 3 teams in pot 1 probably looks like : PL team, Braga/Kiev, Anderlecht/Olympiakos, Anyone but Dortmund/Malaga/Montpellier
Worst case scenario being::: PL team, Valencia, Juve/PSG, Dortmund

Whereas for Man City, best would prob be Porto while worst one of the Spanish big 2.

It's also irrelevant when considering the quality of the Premier League who it's run by, or what countries the players come from, that's a different debate.

Germany seem fairly well placed

Gibson wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Oh dear. The Barclays Premier League is still the best in the World, only a fool would question it. The record of English clubs in the Champions League speaks for itself.

Duty, with due respect an ting... I seem to remember we discussed this before. My comments then, stand even stronger now. The English Prem, is chock-full of overpaid foreigner mercenaries and is massively overrated. Its a rich Brand game, run by Yank & Russian Oligarchs. Supported & funded by disillusioned eejits. Whose National team, is suffering badly because of it.

Arsenal shaaged at home, by Clogs playing for Germans. City hammered away v a weak Dutch side, from a weak Dutch League. Mega-rich, non-English Chelski - beaten by Shakhtar.

3 Billion disillusioned pounds... put in its place by a few bob. Can you see a pattern here?

Then why is there a film called Bend it like Beckham? Never heard of film called Curl it like Cruyff or Rip it like Ronaldo. Where did Beckham make his name? Conclusion: You are desperately looking for attention.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:

Gibson wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Oh dear. The Barclays Premier League is still the best in the World, only a fool would question it. The record of English clubs in the Champions League speaks for itself.

Duty, with due respect an ting... I seem to remember we discussed this before. My comments then, stand even stronger now. The English Prem, is chock-full of overpaid foreigner mercenaries and is massively overrated. Its a rich Brand game, run by Yank & Russian Oligarchs. Supported & funded by disillusioned eejits. Whose National team, is suffering badly because of it.

Arsenal shaaged at home, by Clogs playing for Germans. City hammered away v a weak Dutch side, from a weak Dutch League. Mega-rich, non-English Chelski - beaten by Shakhtar.

3 Billion disillusioned pounds... put in its place by a few bob. Can you see a pattern here?

Then why is there a film called Bend it like Beckham? Never heard of film called Curl it like Cruyff or Rip it like Ronaldo. Where did Beckham make his name? Conclusion: You are desperately looking for attention.

Beckham was an average international player, hyped in the same way the Prem is.

Conclusion: You just cant handle the Truth.

The two best players in the Spanish league are Portuguese and Argentinian. Suspect the same could be said of German and Italian leagues too.

Conclusion: You're a tool.

America - the greatest country in the world knows who Beckham is, hardly anyone over there knows Messi, Ajax, Real Madrid etc. Truth hurtzzz

They know Beckham because of his stick wife and his marketing agent. All he could do was lash in crosses from the wing and scored a few penos. Average over-hyped speler. Clever lad though. Fooled all ye lot and made pots of geld.

America is the greatest country in the World? Man you need to get out more.

P.S. Just having a laff lads. No malice intended.

Josiah, people know who Messi is, and people know who Ronlado is. Beckham was a decent player nothing more.

City in last chance saloon

City just haven't looked as good this year at all, Toure has been completely off form, Aguero and Tevez haven't looked as devastating as they were at the back end of last year either.

While the fact that they are now champions can be used as an excuse in the league, I'm not sure they have an excuse for an awful Champions League experience again. I get that they're new to the competition, but I believe almost all their players have had quite a bit of European experience so it's not a huge leap.

They've been unlucky in getting another hard group this year, but when they're struggling at home against Ajax they have no excuses.

AJAX have just put a 12-year old out on the pitch.

They deserve a least a draw. They got it!

City are probably our weakest champions in the tournament since Blackburn were knocked out in the group stages in 1995.

Perhaps we have gone full circle?

Madrid and Dortmund games you can understand but the Ajax games are inexplicable. Should have been a penalty at the end mind. Going to be some repercussions here!

Don't think so freakshow. They have had two tough groups. I still feel we will have plenty of chances to have teams progress to the latter stages with the other three

Despite Chelsea winning it last year, there has been a notable drop in level for English sides in Europe which seemed to come out of absolutely no where.

It was only a few years ago when the "Big Four", Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool all looked like genuine contenders to win it every year. From about 2005 to 2009 this was the case.

That was a defo penalty. He hung out of Ballotelli and dragged him down. And City were not offside for that goal.

AJAX were lucky, but they were brave. Excellent technically. That team will grow and will really challenge the big boys in 2 years. It has Cryuff written all over it.

Mancini's time is nearly up surely?

Swings and roundabouts Crimey. Chelsea winning it last year well and truly papered over the cracks.

United looking great this year, with RVP and Rooney causing havoc.

You have to give it to Ferguson. Not a fan, but he knows his schiit.

Gibson wrote:That was a defo penalty. He hung out of Ballotelli and dragged him down. And City were not offside for that goal.

AJAX were lucky, but they were brave. Excellent technically. That team will grow and will really challenge the big boys in 2 years. It has Cryuff written all over it.

Mancinci's time is nearly up.

I've always been a big fan of the Ajax way of football Gibbo. That side in the mid 90's was something else. Shexy, shexy!

Lets face it English football in Europe will be better for Norwich being in it after we win the league cup

FreekShow wrote:

Gibson wrote:That was a defo penalty. He hung out of Ballotelli and dragged him down. And City were not offside for that goal.

AJAX were lucky, but they were brave. Excellent technically. That team will grow and will really challenge the big boys in 2 years. It has Cryuff written all over it.

Mancinci's time is nearly up.

I've always been a big fan of the Ajax way of football Gibbo. That side in the mid 90's was something else. Shexy, shexy!

Yeah Freek, that was possibly the best club side Ive ever seen. And I saw their 70's team. Unreal. Its their way. And Cruyff has taken over the club and is steering it, from top to bottom, in that direction again. Total Football. And the AJAX System, whicht is the same at under-12's, as it is right up to the 1st team. That way, players can be slotted in and out of the team seamlessly. Thing is, the Prem clubs will be after their best players soon. I hope Cruyff has a plan for that. They need another 2 years together. Then we'll see shum sexshy football, Oh Ja.

Olly wrote:Lets face it English football in Europe will be better for Norwich being in it after we win the league cup

I can still remember that Jeremy Goss blinder in Munich in 93 like it was yesterday Olly. Oh the romance. And don't forget it took the eventual winners to send you packing that season. Hero's!

That kit was quite horrid looking though.

FreekShow wrote:

Olly wrote:Lets face it English football in Europe will be better for Norwich being in it after we win the league cup

I can still remember that Jeremy Goss blinder in Munich in 93 like it was yesterday Olly. Oh the romance. And don't forget it took the eventual winners to send you packing that season. Hero's!

That kit was quite horrid looking though.

I can just imagine it now. Inter away in the Europa League after they fail to make the Champions League. We defend like trojans for 90 mins, we break down the left with Pilkington, who whips it across onto the head of Grant Holt to slot it home, and I die of pure bliss and celebration

Olly wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

Olly wrote:Lets face it English football in Europe will be better for Norwich being in it after we win the league cup

I can still remember that Jeremy Goss blinder in Munich in 93 like it was yesterday Olly. Oh the romance. And don't forget it took the eventual winners to send you packing that season. Hero's!

That kit was quite horrid looking though.

I can just imagine it now. Inter away in the Europa League after they fail to make the Champions League. We defend like trojans for 90 mins, we break down the left with Pilkington, who whips it across onto the head of Grant Holt to slot it home, and I die of pure bliss and celebration

Only to be knocked out by FC Maribor in the next round. Proper football.

FreekShow wrote:Swings and roundabouts Crimey. Chelsea winning it last year well and truly papered over the cracks.

I get that, but English team's drop of performance in Europe seemed to have come from nowhere.

Lets be fair here it is only Man City out of our teams who probably won't make it through. And they did have the toughest group nearly possible.

Hardly a disaster

Gibson wrote:United looking great this year, with RVP and Rooney causing havoc.

You have to give it to Ferguson. Not a fan, but he knows his schiit.

We'll see how they do in the knockout rounds but i have a feeling their still pretty poor this season in comparison to the best sides around, they've won their games but barely against very poor opposition.

Crimey wrote:

FreekShow wrote:Swings and roundabouts Crimey. Chelsea winning it last year well and truly papered over the cracks.

I get that, but English team's drop of performance in Europe seemed to have come from nowhere.

They are high seeds though so even if they are in decline they will continue to get favorable groups for the next few years. For years it was Italy, then Germany, then Spain,England,Spain the last few years and now i have a feeling it could be swinging towards Germany but who knows really. I think the German teams are excellent technically but really both teams should have won tonight and don't seem to have that old hardened German mentality to win tight games much like the international team.

Gibson wrote:That was a defo penalty. He hung out of Ballotelli and dragged him down. And City were not offside for that goal.

AJAX were lucky, but they were brave. Excellent technically. That team will grow and will really challenge the big boys in 2 years. It has Cryuff written all over it.

Mancini's time is nearly up surely?

Don't see why, brought the club their first league title last season. Actually done a good job at City, hopefully the owners realise this before sacking him as the constant sacking of managers is getting stupid.

City haven't had a lot of luck so far in the CL - looked like winning in Madrid only to concede 2 late goals, one of which Kompany should have blocked but ducked out of the way (after unsighting Hart). Last night the late 'goal' from Aguerro should have stood and referees really should be giving penalties for the sort of holding and pulling that went on against Balotelli on that last corner (although they don't very often).

It's a reasonable point though that the English clubs don't look as strong in the CL as was the case 3 or 4 years ago - you'd expect probably 3 quarter finalists, and only really put Madrid, Barca, Bayern and the strongest Italian team as really tough competition. Now we'll be lucky to have 2 quarter finalists and one semi-finalist - heck, Chelsea were by no mens the strongest team in the competition last year, they just did an excellent tactical job in the SF and F.

hampo171 wrote:

Gibson wrote:That was a defo penalty. He hung out of Ballotelli and dragged him down. And City were not offside for that goal.

AJAX were lucky, but they were brave. Excellent technically. That team will grow and will really challenge the big boys in 2 years. It has Cryuff written all over it.

Mancini's time is nearly up surely?

Don't see why, brought the club their first league title last season. Actually done a good job at City, hopefully the owners realise this before sacking him as the constant sacking of managers is getting stupid.

It might be that he's taken City as far as he can though, I imagine that now City have won the Premier League the next logical step is to attack the Champions League. To perform so badly in it is inexcusable.

Mancini has a poor record in Europe so I can see him getting sacked at the end of the year if they don't win the league.

IMO they wont sack him yet, as he's just won the premier league, sure they're struggling in europe, but its way too early to sack him!

I hope City don't sack Mancini, like it or not he's been a success at Manchester City, Rome wasn't built in a day andthe best thing City need right now is continuity, to sack a manager who delivers the League Title is beyond stupid, European Football is an entirely different ball game, how well have Real Madrid done in Europe over the last 10 years since they won it? And they're European a true European Super Power.

Manchester City should be focusing on becoming the real Super Power of the Premiership over the next 3 years looking to win it another twice in the next 3 seasons and learning in Europe along the way

That being said, I don't think the players they brought in have improved the squad and they seriously lack any width

Fact is Europe is a very different ball game to the EPL. Citeh bought the league fine but they won't have success in Europe for many years as it requires a period of consistent domestic success and stability with the manager and team learning gradually how to play to a successful style on the continent.

38 EPL games in a season, say starting from scratch and instantly building a top side (what City have done) still takes 3 seasons to actually get an EPL title under your belt - that's 114 games. Even in 6 games of Champions League football you'll only get, say, 40-45 games.

United first won the EPL back in 92/93 but had to wait till 98/99 for European honours. Chelsea won the EPL in 04/05 but only Europe in 11/12. Arsenal had a tremendous side of the late 90s and early 00s but after winning the EPL in 97/98 01/02 and 03/04 they could only muster a final loss in 05/06 in Europe.

While on paper it seems stupid to sack him after winning the league, I believe he has not delivered with the resources City have.

He won the league on goal difference, against a Utd side that was one of the worst in a long time (according to their own fans).
After winning the league he then goes out and buys Javi Garcia, Nastasic, Maicon, Sinclair and Rodwell, while letting De Jong go. The first 2 signings seemed ok, but the other 3 are hardly going to improve your squad much. Especially when you consider the improvements Chelsea and to a lesser extent Utd made.

Then he starts the season by changing his formation & tactics to peoples bemusement.
They've had an easier start to the league than both Utd & Chelsea but still find themselves 3rd in the league.

I think he has reason to be concerned for his job.

City haven't played that well and are still unbeaten in the league. As for Europe. That group is as hard as it gets and tbh, Utd would struggle to get out of it.

City may be unbeaten but they've hardly had the toughest of fixtures. They were lucky to get a draw away to us at Anfield, and they could only manage a draw at home to Arsenal. They've drawn too many games, Utd have lost twice but find themselves top of the league, while having much harder fixtures.

nasisillmatic wrote:City may be unbeaten but they've hardly had the toughest of fixtures. They were lucky to get a draw away to us at Anfield, and they could only manage a draw at home to Arsenal. They've drawn too many games, Utd have lost twice but find themselves top of the league, while having much harder fixtures.

Yep, still in the running without playing that great. Isn't that what Utd are famed for? They will no doubt improve and be contending for the title in May.

A squad that includes Nasri, Dzeko, Aguero, Silva, Tevez and Balotelli and you can't put games away shows something must be wrong.

Utd are famed for winning when not playing great, City are not doing this, they are drawing games you would expect them to win. I have no doubt they will be in the running come the end of the season, but with the money they've spent for the last 4 years I would've expected more.

I don't think Mancini has done a good enough job with the resources he has, and wouldn't be shocked if he got the sack.

While on paper it seems stupid to sack him after winning the league, I believe he has not delivered with the resources City have.

He won the league on goal difference, against a Utd side that was one of the worst in a long time (according to their own fans)

They only dropped 25 points the entire season, whatever anyone says that's fantastic in anyones book for a first title win, I myself thought Utd weren't the best, infact the year before I felt it was their worst ever Championship winning side, the point is though that they can still win enough points to either win the title or challenge for it so regardless of how poor we thought they where it didn't stop them winning enough points that would have saw them win it any other year, whens the last time a team in 2nd place won 89 points?

I completely agree with you with regards to the signing policy although do we blame Mancini for that? He was quite critical of the board

TopHat24/7 wrote:A squad that includes Nasri, Dzeko, Aguero, Silva, Tevez and Balotelli and you can't put games away shows something must be wrong.

Yeah, harmony in the camp may not be at an all time high.

I'm going on the assumption that Mancini signed the players unless proven otherwise.

I agree I thought Man Utd were superb last season to get to 89 points, considering they lost twice to City. And there in lies the problem. City can't go away from home and win games as easily as Utd against the lower teams, and for me that is down to Mancini being too negative. With the attacking players they have you shoudn't be going to Swansea & Sunderland and losing 1-0.

All teams lose games, but to not even score against these teams? There is something wrong.

whens the last time a team in 2nd place won 89 points?

Liverpool in 08-09 got 86 points and came second, something I will remind people of until they actually win the league.

People are being very charitable to Mancini IMO.

It may have taken a while for other clubs to win the cl (another topic all together) but they made 1/4s and semis along the way.

As for the group, it is very tough but arsenal got 4 points from Dortmund last year and united got past Ajax in the Europa league without much fuss. Add that to the fact Madrid have been very poor for their standards this season and 2 points from 4 games being completely outplayed in 2 of them doesn't make good reading.

Mancini is a clown of the highest order, his decision making is baffling, man management lacking and media work is non sensical. Keep him on I say, imagine if city had a settled back 4, got rid of balotelli etc they'd be brilliant.

Utd were very charitable to Fergie at the beginning and looked what he did.

Stella wrote:Utd were very charitable to Fergie at the beginning and looked what he did.

Utd at the time & City now are working on completely diffrerent parameters. With the money the owners have invested in the club, the lenience given to Mancini is not going to go far.
Their philosiphy is to go out and buy players at any cost, they don't care. After 4 years of this they have won the FA Cup & Premiership, which is no easy feat. However, they are not going to make it out of their champions league group for the second year running, and have had an indifferent start to the league.

They had a very tough group, but I would've expected them to have been challenging to get out of the group. This falls on the manager, and I believe he should be concerned for his job.

Utd were indifferent in Europe at first, thanks a little to the three foreigner rule and Fergie had a bit of money to spend when he first arrived.
I'm no Mancini fan but do think he should be given a couple of years.........if he wants them.

One thing Mancini has on his side. The fans.

There would be revolt if they sacked him. They love him up there